Talk:Jarmann M1884/Archive 1

Muzzle velocity and recoil of M28
The M28 must had a hell of a recoil; from the advertisment we know that the M28 weighted 5.3 kg unloaded, and 7.7 kg when loaded with a rescue harpoon. It's easy to calculate (with the formula R=v0²sin2a/g) that the 2.4 kg harpoon must had a muzzle velocity of at least 31.3 m/s to reach the range of 100 meters stated in the advertisment. And since there is an equal and opposite reaction to every reaction, it means that the M28 must have moved backwards with a speed of:

2.4kg * 31.3m/s = 5.3kg * ?m/s > ? = 14,17 m/s

In other words, a pretty good kick.

Recoil of M1884
The muzzle velocity of the M1884 is given in the references as between 485 m/s and 500 m/s. Since it's known that the projectile weighted about 21.85g, it's easy to figure out that the recoil is between: 0.002185kg * 485 m/s = 4,5kg * ?m/s > ? = 0.235 m/s and 0.002185kg * 500 m/s = 4,5kg * ?m/s > ? = 0.243 m/s

In other words, about the same as most modern rifles.

Formula used
R=v0²sin2a/g

R = Range v0 = muzzle velocity a = angle; for maximum range, this should be 45°
 * sin2a = the sin-value of _twice_ the angle. For maximum range, this should be 45°, so sin(2*45°) = 1

g = the acceleration of gravity = 9,81 m/s² WegianWarrior 08:29, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

Stolen Images
It is great when you publish an article on the Internet and less than a month after find your own copyrighted images on the Wikipedia. I demand that the images of the two Jarmann cartridges are removed. WegianWarrior has stolen them and not asked permission to use them, nor has he given any source. The images are stolen from: http://www.svartkrutt.net/jarmann1.php and http://www.svartkrutt.net/jarmann2.php


 * I have responded on your talk page. Please see it for the proper procedure to have a copyrighted image deleted.  Thanks, Bushytails 23:48, 7 September 2005 (UTC).


 * Having tried twice to contact the siteowner thru the email listed on the website in question with no responce, I decided to claim fair use on these images in accordance with both US and Norwegian copyright law (Chapter 2, Sect 13). However, it is correct that I've forgotten to list the source, an error on my part which I will correct.
 * I still claim fair use thought, and am willing to defend that position.
 * WegianWarrior 07:08, 8 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Well, sometimes the sledgehammer (or perhaps we should say slegga?) hits himself in the face. Thieves always leaves tracks.


 * Is that meant as a threat? It don't become you... espeisally seeing as if you're who you claim to be (and I can't see why you ain't), then I can find out a lot about you from just browsing svartkrutt.net if I so wish.
 * Bushytails has helpfully listed the image on Copyright_problems, which means that the experts are having a look at it. Now I'm going to abide by their decicion. Until such time, I've changed the description on the image into something I'm hope you're satisfied with. WegianWarrior 06:13, 12 September 2005 (UTC)


 * I think you will have problems browsing anything from my website from now on. And I do not approve of the source you have provided. Does it properly list the photographer and the context? It's incredible that you don't remove the images. You KNOW who the photograher is, you KNOW who the copyright holder are, but you obviously don't know anything about copyright laws.

Copyrighted Images
I have not received any e-mail concerning your use of my images, that's a pure lie. Even if you have sent an inquiry and didn’t get a reply, does that mean that you can use it? Why didn’t you use the image on page 56 in the book where you have copied four other images and 95 % of the text?

You obviously haven’t read (or understood properly) the Norwegian copyright law. To help you I will give you a few quotes:

From Making Copies for Use in Educational Activities Sec. 13.: “Any person may for use in his own educational activities, by photocopying or similar means of reproduction, make copies of a published work, as well as make a fixation of a work that is included in a broadcast, if he fulfills the conditions for an extended collective license pursuant to Section 36, first paragraph.”

Read the first line: “in his own educational activities”. You have not used it in your own personal education, you have published images for the rest of the world to see. In short: No images can be lifted off the net and used in a way that you use them.

You also write in your comment to the picture: “No public domain image of the ammunition for the Jarmann M1884 could be found or made.” Too bad for you, that is why people like me have to buy/make cartridges and photograph them. And it pisses me off when people like you simply just steal them because: “No public domain image of the ammunition for the Jarmann M1884 could be found or made.” That is perhaps the worst excuse I have ever heard! Copyrightholder 13:57, 8 September 2005.