Talk:Jean-Michel Basquiat/Archive 1

Initial message
I'm stubbing this, it's fragmentary and incomplete. There needs to be a section adressing the criticism towards Basquiat. Robert Hughes for example called him a featherweight because of his weak technique, and criticized his dealers for exploiting him as a young black painter. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.133.69.2 (talk) 05:19, 18 February 2005 (UTC)

Name of Band
I'm pretty sure his band's name was spelled with an "e", but I can't remember. Someone who knows should let us know and correct it if needed (I think it was named after "Grey's Anatomy" if I remember correctly, which would suggest the g-r-e-y spelling).Arekusu (talk) 03:44, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Let's improve this
This paragraph is problematic in both style and content. Let's try to improve it: --jpgordon&#8711;&#8710;&#8711;&#8710; 15:37, 1 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Many of his friends and his lovers showed a remarkable fear for his frequent drug abuse. Many believe because of this drug use, he developed a paranoia around many, including his close friends.

The paragraph concerning his drug use seems to hint at a connection between the drugs/paranoia and his appearance on the cover of Time. Is this the case? If not, this paragraph should be restructured. -Sam Walker (2005/8/15)


 * I agree. In fact, this article is disjointed in many places and includes at least one POV statement, "Some claimed that Andy Warhol was merely using Basquiat for some of his techniques and insight, but this was never based on much fact, just mere speculation." Who are the some who claimed that Warhol was using him and how do we know that the assertion was mere speculation? I would suggest that someone put a clean-up disclaimer on this page. I'd do it myself, but I haven't yet learned how. CKA3KA (Skazka) 00:26, 2 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I have tagged the article as being in need of work. CKA3KA (Skazka) 01:35, 2 November 2005 (UTC)


 * This page needs a section on where some of his works are housed (i.e. names of paintings followed by names of museums) to follow the format used for most visual artists on this site. --Emilie, 4/5/2007 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 160.39.245.202 (talk) 12:09, 5 April 2007 (UTC)


 * This page needs to move away from Graffiti, and more to talking about his life, habits, and contacts. At least 3 new sections are needed, and I think it should probably be totally rewritten.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.68.66.175 (talk) 04:08, 28 July 2008 (UTC)


 * He was not on the cover of Time, it was the Magazeen of the Sunday New York Times. It had nothing to do with his drug use, which went on an off for most of his career. --AaronF2 (talk) 20:06, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

There is one good biography so far published, and several good works on his art. Yet most of the statements in this article seem to come from websites filled with misinformation. The entire work needs to be restructured, and edited severely. --AaronF2 (talk) 20:06, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

The article says his father (Gerard Basquiat) was a "former Haitian Minister of the Interior." I have seen no reference to this in Basquiat's biography, or the many interviews with Jean-Michal and Gerard. Gerard has stated that he left Haiti for Brooklyn in 1955 when he was only 20. He came from an "elite, affluent background" and his family "got into some political problems." I think the statement about the Minister of the Interior should be removed. --AaronF2 (talk) 20:19, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Political Correctness Fails Again
Why is he listed as being an African-American? There is nothing in the article that says he has African heritage. Black =/= African-American. 207.250.76.5 14:42, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

1) Basquiat was of Haitian extraction. Where do you think the Haitians came from? They are descended from African slaves. 2) Basquiat was an American. Therefore, Q.E.D. he was an African-American. JohnC 05:25, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

3) And the Puerto Rican ancestry comes into this where exactly? kris 23:50, 09 January 2007 (UTC)

Basquiat would best be described as being of West Indian descent. Both Haitians and Puerto Ricans have a rich and very mixed heritage of African/Indigenous/European culture. Nothing wrong with being listed as African American... Unfortunately in America, the color of your skin trumps anything else. Malarican 02:41, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Try telling a Haitian that he is African-American, many Haitians have serious problems being identified with the American Noir. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.31.91.82 (talk) 17:55, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Why not just say he is American? And leave it at that, although most Americans have different ethnic backgrounds for example on Jackson Pollock's page we don't say "European-American" or such as that? It's ridiculous. - User:EthanLeon —Preceding comment was added at 19:35, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Jean-Michel Basquiat was Black and born in America. Another term used for that is African-American. His father was from Haiti, and Black, and his mother was from Puerto Rico. Although not all Puerto Ricans are Black, she was. Jean-Michel did not call himself Haitian, or Puerto Rican, although he was proud of his heritage. His work makes references to Haitian history ("Haitian Baseball Factrories," "Toussaint L'Overture vs Savonarola" 1983, etc.), and to Puerto Rico ("Abuelita" 1981, etc.), but even more to the African-American experience, from "Slave Auction" to "Jim Crow," "Great Negro Athletes" and numerous paintings about Black American jazz and sports figures. He even visited Africa, and painted "Griot" and other paintings based on West African traditions. So there should be no problem in refering to him as an "African American" painter, although he is certainly a notable modern American painter with or without noting his ethnic background. --AaronF2 (talk) 21:06, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Afro-Puerto Rican
There seems to be a ridiculous wikipedia trend of calling persons who happen to have ancestors from Puerto Rico who married black people who are not Puerto Rican, "Afro-Puerto Rican." Afro-Puerto Rican refers to a specific group of people -blacks from Puerto Rico- and not anything else. I am deleting this nonsensical reference. Thanks to the editor who adds people to ethnic groups by combining ancestors; very poor and very non-academic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Noopinonada (talk • contribs) 03:16, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

brooklynmuseum.org external link
This link: [Street-to-Studio Interactive was added to the article by the site owner. In keeping with our [[WP:EL|guidelines]] could regular editors of this article check out the link and add it back if you think it appropriate.  Thanks. -- Siobhan Hansa 00:23, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Pictures of his artworks?
would it be possible for someone to post some pictures of his more famous artworks? most other artists seem to have these included with their articles.

It would be nice, but there are copyright issues with the Estate of Jean-Michel Basquiat. The best thing to do is to link to other sites which have authorised pictures (such as Brooklyn Museum, and some galleries). --AaronF2 (talk) 21:09, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

SAMO shit image by imitator
Am i the only one that sees how silly that looks? it's as if someone uploaded their own cover of "Strawberry Fields" to The Beatles article. This image should definitely go and replaced for either an originl SAMO tag by Basquiat or nothing.Yamanbaiia 11:10, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Agreed. I removed it. I'm surprised it stuck around as long as it did. In addition to the obvious ridiculousness of having an imitator's bathroom graffiti on the page, it's not even a good image of that imitation. It's cut off on the bottom, and it includes a spam reference to "trashfetishwear.com". MANdARAX  •  XAЯAbИAM  21:52, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Coincidental Information Also Left Out
The graffiti name "SAMO", obviously used by Basquiat, is shared by a Frankish merchant named Samo who became the first ruler of the Slavs. He was called King Samo. If you're familiar with Basquiat's work you'll recognize the significance by his usage of the ever-present crown. I think this is more than a coincidence and should be noted in the article. Another piece of information left untapped was his SAMO quotes which can be found on many sites. "SAMO© as an end to mindwash religion, nowhere politics, and bogus philosophy" or "SAMO© saves idiots" are just a few examples. This article needs more, with a few more links.--Garyloganhobdy (talk) 21:38, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

This name was, in its first phase the product of a three person collective effort of which Jean-Michel Basquiat was part. In its second phase it Basquiat alone. Many examples of the first phase (much of which appear very similar to those quoted above) are available on Henry Flynt's website as he photographed them and exhibited the photos in New York in 1979. I found your comments in the process of creating a stub to document this information.Bob Doubles (talk) 18:17, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Please give more information on this. All availalbe accounts, including interviews with Basquiat and Diaz, say the graffiti was a dual effort between Jean-Michal Basquiat and Albert Diaz. In early 1980 Basquiat began writing "SAMO is dead" and the tag was killed off. --AaronF2 (talk) 20:15, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Basquiat Museum
Is there any current proposal to create a Basquiat Museum from the large amount of works that constitute the Jean-Michel Basquiat Estate ? Just curious to know.213.13.242.8 (talk) 22:47, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

No. —Preceding unsigned comment added by AaronF2 (talk • contribs) 21:11, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

It wouldn´t be a bad idea.213.13.241.8 (talk) 23:55, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Ethnicity in lead and see also section
Are ther other sources for the claim that he was the first internation African American "art star" (whatever that is :) )? Also, I removed the over bloated see also section. Maybe work into the article or spell out what the relation is to this article. Thanks, --Tom (talk) 21:51, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * ps, I also removed the quote farm. --Tom (talk) 21:54, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Other sources for Basquiat as first black American art star (whatever that is): "the only black artist to achieve the Olympian pinnacle of international painter stars [in the 1980s]", "one of the most significant black artists of his generation" .--Ethicoaestheticist (talk) 22:01, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

American painters Jacob Lawrence and Romare Bearden were also black.213.13.245.166 (talk) 02:15, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

copyright image in need of context / commentary
File:Untitled painting by --Jean-Michel Basquiat--.jpg has been removed from the article per WP:FAIR, without properly sourced commentary / contextual content, it will likely be deleted from wikipedia. Active Banana (talk) 20:51, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

I would also recommend that rather than this image, we find one of the Graffiti works or one that shows his use of incorporating text into his work. This and the other works in the article appear to be very similar in style and do not give the reader a very good overview of the span of his work. Active Banana (talk) 22:55, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Early Life Unclear
The Early Life section is unclear and not organized chronologically. It even appears to contradict itself. Will someone with knowledge of this subject please clean it up?Tdimhcs (talk) 21:33, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Art Market
This needs to be updated. This section gives a high price figure for the sale of a Basquiat at $16 million when his paintings have sold for $40 million and even $80 Million.Tomandzeke (talk) 00:59, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

Small Issue But Disrespectful Nonetheless
''The last sentence in the opening paragraph of Jean-Michel Basquiat's biography should not end with “Basquiat died of a heroin overdose on August 12, 1988.” If other biography opening paragraphs dealing with this time period ended similarly this would not be an issue, but they are not. He should be given the same consideration as his contemporaries with the last sentence removed and edited to read as follows:''

Jean-Michel Basquiat (December 22, 1960 – August 12, 1988) was an American artist and is cited by Graham Thompson as the first painter of African descent to become an international art star.[1] He started as a graffiti writer in New York City, and in the 1980s produced Neo-expressionist painting.

Consider the opening paragraphs of Johnny Thunders and Sid Vicious:

Johnny Thunders, born John Anthony Genzale, Jr. (July 15, 1952 - April 23, 1991), was an American Glam-Punk guitarist, singer and songwriter. He came to prominence in the early '70s as a member of the New York Dolls. He later played with The Heartbreakers and as a solo artist.

Sid Vicious (born John Simon Ritchie[1] 10 May 1957 – 2 February 1979) was an English musician best known as the bassist of the influential punk rock group Sex Pistols. In 2006 he was inducted posthumously into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame as a member of the Sex Pistols.''

Or are the openings for Nancy Spungen and Rockets Redglare – two controversial and/or some would say scandalous people of the same time period:

Nancy Laura Spungen (February 27, 1958 – October 12, 1978) was the American girlfriend of Sex Pistols bassist Sid Vicious. Spungen has been the subject of controversy among music historians and fans of the Sex Pistols.

Rockets Redglare (May 8, 1949 – May 28, 2001) was an American character actor and stand-up comedian. He appeared in over 30 films in the 1980s and 1990s, including a number of independent films, and mainstream films such as After Hours (1984) and Desperately Seeking Susan (1985).

Even they were shown respect– why wasn’t Basquiat?


 * First WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. In other words, using other articles as an example of what should be done on every article is not a solid argument. However, since I really couldn't care less about this issue, I haven't reverted. Second, had you explained why you were removing the content to begin with, I doubt anyone else would give a toss either and you wouldn't have been reverted twice. Editors doing vandalism patrols cannot read your mind nor do they know why you have a problem with what appears to be very valid and very sourced content.  Pinkadelica ♣  02:00, 24 April 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree that removing the specifics of his death from the opening paragraph is the right thing to do. The Sid Vicious argument is best, as both Vicious and Basquiat were talented young artists and already famous; thus making their untimely deaths all the more tragic. On the flip-side, musician Kurt Cobain's fairly robust article DOES mention his death in the opening section.--Knulclunk (talk) 02:10, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
 * WP:LEAD says that the introduction should cover all important aspects of the topic of the article. The death of a human is a pretty important aspect in the life of a human. We are not here "to show respect" - the facts are the facts and we report them. From WP:LEAD "When an article subject dies, the lead does not need to be radically reworked. Unless the cause of death is itself a reason for notability, a single sentence describing it is usually sufficient." suggesting that the single sentence about the death is in fact appropriate.Active Banana (talk) 17:35, 26 April 2010 (UTC)


 * The issue at hand is whether it is important enough in the life and relevance of Basquiat to be one of the three sentences in the introductory paragraph to his page. And yes, facts are facts, but again, is he famous for dying of a heroin overdose, or is he famous for being an artist and cultural blah-blah-blah?  I don't think his death has very much at all to do with why he has a page on Wikipedia, why he is remembered, or how he is remembered. And you'll note that other people who died with similar opportunities for journalistic sensationalism, as mentioned by others, were not treated the same way in the opening paragraph. Chris Farley is a person whose death (and I know this is anecdotal/subjective) is a well-known part of his life and is connected to the image of Farley 'we' have, but there's no mention of that in his intro paragraph.  This isn't about allowing the truth out, but about whether there's really any reason the heroin overdose should be one of essentially two facts about his life initially presented, along with being an American artist famous for his certain brand of art.  It didn't affect his art, and I just don't see any way it is connected to who he was.


 * I'm removing it for now. If somebody fill the paragraph in again, I would recommend giving equal consideration to his heroin overdose, his beginning selling T-shirts, and Haitian/Puerto Rican background for what might be placed there.  ~ magbatz 17:42, 10 November 2011 (UTC)


 * If you removed it it didn't stay removed. Basquiat's paintings have sold for up to $80,000,000 to date which makes him much more famous for his legacy than his autopsy. Which is more important that his work commands among the the highest prices of any American painter or that he was a heroin user? How does Wikipedia know he died of a heroin overdose rather than an accidental overdose since no user ever knows the purity/potency of the drug—where is this documented and why is there no citation? Tomandzeke (talk) 01:06, 3 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Better to start a new section here than revive a three-year-old thread. Read the "Final years and death" section of the article; the info is sourced and pertinent to the story of Basquiat's career. Carlstak (talk) 03:55, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

Artistic Analysis
The explaintions of B's work needs attention. For example:

"His paintings are typically covered with text and codes of all kinds: words, letters, numerals, pictograms, logos, map symbols, diagrams and more."

- This is merely a statement of artistic practice. It does not explain why B did this, or more to the point what representational value this practice has.

"A middle period from late 1982 to 1985 featured multi-panel paintings and individual canvases with exposed stretcher bars, the surface dense with writing, collage and imagery. The years 1984–85 were also the main period of the Basquiat–Warhol collaborations, even if, in general, they weren't very well received by the critics."

- Why did B do multi-panel paintings? Why use stretcher bars? Why were B and W's collaborations not well received?

"A major reference source used by Basquiat throughout his career was the book Gray's Anatomy, which his mother had given him while he was in the hospital at age seven. It remained influential in his depictions of internal human anatomy, and in its mixture of image and text. Other major sources were Henry Dreyfuss' Symbol Sourcebook, Leonardo da Vinci's notebooks, and Brentjes' African Rock Art."

- What did G's Anatomy contribute to B's work? Why is it important to mix image and text? What did this bring to B's art?

Jamesthecat (talk) 14:57, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

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opening biographical info inaccuracy
in the opening paragraph, it is stated, rather unequivocally, "the Lower East Side of Manhattan during the late 1970s where the hip hop, post-punk, and street art movements had coalesced."

this is simply historically inaccurate for two reasons:

in the 70's (especially late 70's) there was, as yet, no hip-hop culture, movement, or anything similar fully formed. at best the culture of rap, and later known as hip-hop, was in it's nascent phases. further, in whatever state hip-hop existed, by no means was it present, and certainly not 'coalescing', anywhere near the lower east side. this was strictly an uptown phenomenon. and most definitely there was no 'coalescing' with punk in any form. those worlds simply did not mix. while looking thru the lens of today's culture, where there has been a dissolution of specific tastes to the extent that various genres of the arts (especially music) may be blended, at least in discussion, etc., at that time, such a crossing of barriers simply didn't happen.

secondly, the use of the term 'post-punk' is completely inaccurate here. the 70's (again, primarily late 70's) was the origin period of punk. to whatever extent a 'post-punk' genre existed in the late 70's(joy division being the best example)there was certainly no overt, fully formed movement and/or subculture which was independent and coherent enough to be considered as viable to be 'coalescing' with any other movement.

to be sure, the downtown nyc art worlds were blended in a mix of alternative culture in general at that time(note: that would not include any nascent hip-hop)- that would include punk, post-punk, goth, etc. but to single out post-punk as a specific movement that was coalescing, as the author did, is simply wrong.Patric627 (talk) 18:08, 6 June 2016 (UTC)

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Timeline inconsistent
The early childhood timeline does not line up and does not match the sources. One source say 6 years old when hit by car could not be in September 1968.

69.159.30.146 (talk) 17:41, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Categories
This article should have both the following categories: Category:American contemporary artists AND Category:African-American contemporary artists (a non-diffusing subcategory of Category:American contemporary artists) otherwise African-American contemporary artists may be ghettoized when “Category:American contemporary artists” is removed from their pages  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.40.81.254 (talk) 16:37, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

Sexual orientation
From this article:


 * Suzanne Mallouk, who later specifically described his sexuality in Jennifer Clement's book, Widow Basquiat, as: "... not monochromatic. It did not rely on visual stimulation, such as a pretty girl. It was a very rich multichromatic sexuality. He was attracted to people for all different reasons. They could be boys, girls, thin, fat, pretty, ugly. It was, I think, driven by intelligence. He was attracted to intelligence more than anything and to pain."

From the blog Gay Influence (I'm not claiming this is a reliable source, just the first to-hand) :


 * In the early 1980s he fell under the spell of Andy Warhol, with whom he collaborated on a series of paintings. Some say he entered into an intimate relationship with Warhol, his idol and mentor, but Basquiat’s sexual relationship with fellow East Village artist David Bowes is better documented. However, no matter how fluid his sexual orientation has been described by art historians, most of his sexual relations were with women.

This sounds like he was LGBTQ+ in some sense, but there's no categories to match that. —  OwenBlacker (he/him; Talk; please &#123;&#123;ping&#125;&#125; me in replies) 08:36, 25 June 2020 (UTC)