Talk:Jean Abraham Grill

Post GA-review Sources
You know after I had finished the GA review I became somewhat uneasy about whether I had checked the sources enough. I took a closer look at the Lidman archives, and it seems to me that this is pretty much a private netsite; which can not be considered a reliable source for Wikipedia. So I removed the info based on that source for now (the sourced used was a letter by Henriette of the Grill family published at the Lidman archives). I also removed information about being the third women which was based Svenskt Diplomatarium and I wonder if that archive has info going to the 1700s. I also have some questions about the Grilleana archive. What kind of source is it? Who has published it? I am sorry for not having paid enough attention to this earlier. Pinging Iselilja (talk) 23:37, 25 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Hi again, I think you may have been a bit hasty in removing that text. Let's sort it out.


 * The Grilleana archive is a site maintained by the Grills living today. They collect texts, information, thesis etc. written about the Grill family on that site. Like many other Swedish research groups, and even museums, they take advantage of the fact that some webhosts are available for free and can be used without any knowledge of programming, and thus this may look like blogs or something, but it is a serious site and the facts on the pages and in the pdfs are referenced and verifiable.
 * The Lidman archives are similar. The letter from Henrietta Grill is actually in the Godegård Archive and have also been used as a source for a paper/thesis (I don't know the exact translation), where the same facts are mentioned, approved by the historical institution at the Lund University which makes it good enough for me.
 * The fact that Grill's wife ran the ironworks after his death is verified by other sources such as this book about the manors of that county, this website about the ironworks (Flerohopp was part of the Godegårds ironworks at that time) and this page (p.14) about the Grill estates.
 * Not only does the Svenskt Diplomatarium (or rather the National Archives of Sweden) go back to the 1700s (that is recent), it goes all the way back to the Middle Ages. Remember that Sweden is World Champion in bureaucracy. ;) The archive have two medieval documents, 7512 and 5111, where Godegård is left to and run by women. One from Herr Nils Abjörnsson where he gives his wife Bengta Abrahamsdotter Godegård in a will, and the other where Riddaren Nils Abjörnsson has borrowed money from Fru Katerina i Avatomta, but cannot pay and have to give her Godegård to run. These were the first two times that the place was run by women. The third was when Grill's wife took over.
 * So, we can definitely reinsert the fact about his wife running the ironworks by using other sources. It is up to you if you think the rest is sufficient. I have seen many books about Godegård and additional about the Grills in the LIBRIS, but unfortunately I have no access to those where I live. Our library is too small, very frustrating when sources are needed. w.carter -Talk  01:27, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
 * This morning I had a facepalm moment when I realized I had only been looking for facts about his wife and the ironworks with her maiden name! Trying Lovisa Ulrika Grill was another matter. It yielded a page from the Swedish Mining Academy with the same info as the pages above, and with an academy to back me up I felt confident to reintroduce the fact about the wife. That page also mentioned his death, but just marked it as "mysterious circumstances" which may be more appropriate to write here. I also found several document in the National Archives of Sweden regarding Godegård and the wife, among those fire insurance for the ironworks and manor that she bought, but as primary sources those are not allowed. w.carter  -Talk  12:12, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

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