Talk:Jean Desbouvrie

Magasin Pittoresque
Perhaps you've found this already, but there is an article about Desbouvrie in Le Magasin pittoresque, vol. 57, Paris 1889. See http://visualiseur.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/cb32810629m/date1889. (You may have to enter the page number, 328.)

It seems to have the same content as the Zoologist report, judging from the article, but it has some correction. Jean had been raising swallows for "almost 40 years", so he's likely to have been born slightly earlier than 1840; the distance between Paris and Roubaix is given as "more than 150 km", and his swallows covered that in 75 minutes. (On a map, the distance is ~180 km.)

Also, there's a low quality picture of Jean's house with the balcony where he trained his birds. Perhaps this can be used in the section "Swallow training". -- Eugène van der Pijll (talk) 00:30, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
 * The same article is at http://www.arisitum.org/faune/35.htm, with a better picture. -- Eugène van der Pijll (talk) 20:35, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Um ... what became of his efforts?
There's a good lead-up and description of the conception, but not of how they ended. Ray Talk 19:13, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * His proposals stopped getting attention. The only followup source indicated he was unwilling to do followup testing on his sparrows.  The proposed hangover remedy didn't receive any attention in later sources.  It'd be original research to say that it went nowhere, but it obviously did go nowhere.  Durova Charge! 23:05, 13 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I propose to include info based on the following - any ideas/suggstions?? [ jw ]
 * 1. Annales médico-psychologiques 1891 (reporting la séance du 19 Juin 1888) http://www.bium.univ-paris5.fr/histmed/medica/page?90152x1891x14&p=445 and http://web2.bium.univ-paris5.fr/livanc/?cote=90152x1891x14&p=446&do=page contain a report of Desbouvrie's suggestions to l'Académie de Médicine and the lukewarm response he obtained. [ jw ]
 * 2. Le Presse 5-jan-1891 http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k5461592.texte.f1.langFR contains (OCR-scanned, -garbled) information about le drame de Roubaix = Desbourvrie's arrest after over-indulging in alcohol and seriously injuring his wife. This may be one of the reasons why his suggestions were not followed up or taken seriously by l'Académie. [ jw ] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikramaratna (talk • contribs) 10:10, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
 * 3. the Wanganui Herald, NZ, 1890 also reported the demonstration http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&d=WH18901025.2.29 presumably the report of a report (although they say it comes from their correspondent in Dunkirk) [jw]

Lead?
The lead does not adequately summarize the article and the first sentence should establish notability. It's very unclear and vague (Was he French? What was his profession? Is this all that is talked about in the article? What does "this work" refer to specifically?) The lead should be rewritten. Hekerui (talk) 19:35, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I rewrote the first sentence in the lead to help satisfy the GA Criteria. I will reevalute the quality of the lead but I will defer to Durova who is the GA nominator and primary editor on this article.  H1nkles (talk) 21:04, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Backyard Competition ?? ... pardon ?!
1. What on earth is an International Backyard Competition ? cf. [] I am convinced that this is a mistranslation (or even a mistranslation of a mistranslation) but I am perplexed as to the original French
 * Can somebody help please ? I have also put this request on the French discussion page []

If there's no quick answer I propose to remove the word backyard viz Honorary diploma of the Roubaix International Backyard Competition of 1889

The French version of this page states Diplôme d'honneur pour son travail sur les Hirondelles.

2. There is a second issue here - I have not so far been able to find a reference to any Roubaix International Competition or Expo in 1889. jw (talk) 16:03, 5 January 2020 (UTC)

is : Barnyard.

There was an international barnyard competition from Roubaix and desbouvrie received two awards for his work on the swallows

--JuliusMassius (talk) 16:07, 5 January 2020 (UTC)


 * what was the title in French of the barnyard competition ? I still fear a mistranslation and would liketo get this straight — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jwikip (talk • contribs) 07:30, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

--JuliusMassius (talk) 11:13, 7 January 2020 (UTC)
 * French : Concours International de Basse-cour de Roubaix,
 * English : International Barnyard contest of Roubaix

@JuliusMassius
 * j'ai rectifié la référence au Concours International d'Animaux de Basse-cour de Roubaix qui est cité dans le journal du 23-10-1889 donc International Barnyard Animal Contest... ainsi que des temps de verbe qui doivent être au passé (past simple) en anglais jw (talk) 09:00, 9 January 2020 (UTC)
 * par ailleurs je n'ai pas trouvé de référence à à une médaille du travail, simplement une médaille jw (talk) 09:00, 9 January 2020 (UTC)

la médaille du travail c'est : https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%A9daille_d%27honneur_du_travail

On lui offre cette médaille pendant le Concours International de Basse-cour de Roubaix mais c'est l'état qui le donne attribue.

--JuliusMassius (talk) 16:17, 9 January 2020 (UTC)

@JuliusMassius - je sais ce qu'est une médaille du travail.
 * ci-dessus, j'aurai du dire que je n'ai pas trouvé de référence à une médaille du travail attribuée à Jean Desbouvrie, simplement une référence à une médaille. jw (talk) 16:53, 9 January 2020 (UTC)

Sur cet article c'est écrit : https://www.bn-r.fr/notice_alto.php?q=id:115815

Débouvrie a obtenu une médaille de vermeille et un diplôme d'honneur Ce n'est pas une médaille du travail, c'est une erreur de ma part. --JuliusMassius (talk) 16:59, 9 January 2020 (UTC)

@JuliusMassius
 * nous sommes d'accord ! we agree. this issue is therefore closed jw (talk) 17:21, 9 January 2020 (UTC)

Which swallow species ?
The French page mentions ' hirondelle ' and ' hirondelle sauvage ', while displaying the image of a hirondelle de fenêtre. Do we actually know exactly which species of swallow was used by Desbouvrie ?

I ask this because if they were hirondelle de cheminée this would translate as Swallow Hirundo rustica Linnaeus, 1758 - but if hirondelle de fenêtre then it would be House Martin Delichon urbicum (Linnaeus, 1758). Both species would probably have been common in late-19th-century Roubaix. jw (talk) 09:28, 9 January 2020 (UTC)


 * Looking at the original references and text in French, it would seem from their descriptions that Desbouvrie's 'swallows' were indeed House-Martins. I propose to put a note in the top of the page, clarifying this misnomer ... but I shall leave the word 'swallow' throughout the page, as 'swallow' is the word used by documentation and references in English. -- jw (talk) 15:00, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

Hello, it would be Southern rough-winged swallow.

https://books.google.fr/books?id=-SGCND13WeYC&pg=PA215&dq=%27Esplanade+des+Invalides+desbouvrie&hl=fr&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiIs-W7_6zuAhWSzYUKHY7YDvAQ6AEwBHoECAEQAg#v=onepage&q='Esplanade%20des%20Invalides%20desbouvrie&f=false JuliusMassius (talk) 09:44, 24 January 2021 (UTC)


 * hello @JuliusMassius, I disagree, I don't think it could be a southern rough-winged swallow ! Desbouvrie's and other documents state the swallows were nesting in (on) the house, in France. <br In France there are no wild southern rough-winged swallows - nor for that matter white-banded swallows (Atticora fasciata) which were named in the footnote of your reference document as being shy of humans ! Both species are apparently forest-dwellers. We should carefully re-read the original documents jw (talk) 15:56, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

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 * Signature de Jean Baptiste Desbouvrie, l'hirondelliste militaire.png