Talk:Jean Grey/Archive 1

Initial text
Ha! I love the "other statistics" addition. Best chuckle I've had all day! Thanks, Daniel! -mhr 07:08, 11 Dec 2003 (UTC)

I think we should avoid "vital stats" lists in WP articles on fictional characters, as their info is usually unverifiable, vague, a subject of significant debate, and/or simply not interesting writing. I've removed the info from this article, especially as it also duplicates some of the info in the existing text. -mhr 03:55, 9 Dec 2003 (UTC)

-

Removed frome the article, I agree with Michael on this subject. Since large numbers of these "vital stats" sections have been added to various articles, I'm using Talk:Strength level (comics) to discuss this issue in general. Bryan 08:30, 22 Jan 2004 (UTC)


 * Real Name: Jean Grey-Summers (married)
 * Group affiliations: X-Men, X-Factor (disbanded)
 * Aliases: Phoenix, Marvel Girl
 * Height: 5 ft. 6 in.
 * Weight: 110 lbs.
 * Eyes: Green
 * Hair: Red
 * Source of powers: Benevolent mutation.
 * Intelligence Level: Above Normal (possibly greater)
 * Strength: Normal, can telekinetically lift weights exceeding a ton.
 * Speed: Subsonic (levitation)
 * Reflexes: Normal
 * Agility: Normal
 * Endurance: Normal
 * Energy Projection: Vast
 * Other powers: Vast psionic powers. Limited telepathy. Jean Grey is a mutant who possesses telekinetic abilities enabling her to levitate and manipulate living beings and inanimate objects psionically. She may also be able to wield the Phoenix force, a virtually unlimited source of cosmic power. However, she seldom makes full use of this ability.

Endsong
Ok, the new edited section on Endsong is better in terms of length, but in terms of style is just as bad as the previous version. Can someone who's read the issues clean this up? I'll do it if no one else will, but I'd prefer an informed writer do it. Pitr 07:24, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Endsong(cont.)
On a related note to Endsong, can anyone add to the articles the issues in which this takes place? or is this a seperate mini-series altogether?
 * It was a five issue miniseries. --DrBat 01:53, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

A bit unwieldy
This article is 43 kilobytes, maybe it's a time for it to get condensed a little. Kusonaga 10:57, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

DEAD ?
Ok I love the X-men comics, but come on Marvel give Jean a break, she has died to many time? but my real question is does anyone know if she is returning (with X3 being made it has to be soon) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.91.147.34 (talk) 21:15, 19 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Dead god I hope not. Let her stay gone this time. Also, she doesn't have to come back becomes her film counterpart isn't dead. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.42.156.18 (talk) 19:38, 19 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Actually, that is incorrect. She is officially in X3, turning out to be the Dark Phoenix, even turning bullets upon Magneto. I believe Famke is doing a FANTASTIC job of portraying her. Anyway, I think she should come back and just be back for like twenty years. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.91.239.39 (talk) 22:21, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Minor Edits
I tried to condense and rearrange. There was a paragraph in Romance about her attending the university, even though it didn't have any real relevance to her romances. I condenced the paragraph to a sentence.

The Phoenix section is really difficult to revise, considering it is one of the biggest aspects of Jean's life. I left it lengthy, and I urge others to do so as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.91.239.39 (talk) 23:24, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Slight change in wording
Jean Grey was not, as the article claimed, the "one true host" of the Phoenix Force. A scan of an Excalibur issue here proves that Rachel was called that at one point, however. Perhaps there was confusion. In any case, it was an inaccurate statement so I modified it.
 * She is the 'true host' of the Phoenix Force, shown in Endsong when Phoenix declared, "You and I are One." I agree that she is not the 'one true host', but she is the 'true host'.
 * Uh... if Endsong doesn't call her the "true host" (whatever the heck that even means), then you can't really use Endsong as evidence that she is this "true host." So she and the Phoenix Force are "One..." that doesn't imply anything about "true host-ness," it just implies they've merged. Joeyconnick 23:44, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

To me the quote "you and I are one" means that Jean = Phoenix, and vice versa! It is her destiny, according to the writer of Endsong in a recent interview about the sequel to Endsong.

Jean SHB pic
Image:WhitePhoenix.jpg: Again we have a tug-of-war with another SHB pic. Since it worked so well on the Huntress page, perhaps a third-party opinion would help. Maybe we could use Jean's last official appearance from Endsong? It's a current pic, it shows Jean's humanity, and its still art by Greg Land. What does everyone think (anything to end the drama)? Coronis 02:30, 20 May 2006 (UTC) I'll go along with that. MetaStar 01:03, 21 May 2006 (UTC)


 * The End image is an alternate reality, so from the getgo it can't be the SHB image.
 * She's only worn that white costume twice, at the end of "Here Comes Tommorow" and at the end of Endsong. The other image shows all her other incarnations, and represents Jean's history better. --DrBat 01:08, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Of course YOU don't agree. And your info is totally false. Endsong is part of the mainstream continuity. Rachel even mentions the events of endsong in Uncanny X-Men. I've also noticed that you're violating the three-revert rule on any of the pages I've edited. Guarding "your" articles is very immature. MetaStar 01:28, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Get your facts straight. I was referring to your image from the X-Men: The End series as being an alternate reality. And again, as for the white costume, she has only worn it twice. The other Endsong image also better represents her history.
 * And you're a fine one to talk about your immaturity, with your barrage of childish insults. --DrBat 01:30, 21 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Awww, she's so pretty! Let's use her. She looks evil in the main picture, and Jean shouldn't look evil. She's Rachel's mom for goodness sakes. MarvelousGirl 04:32, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I find it highly suspicious a new user happens to register right now, and then all she does is continue to make the same reverts MetaStar made. (and btw, I forgot to log out of my brother's account before I made the edit, but that was me who changed the image. )--DrBat 19:51, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Not again! DrBat let it go. We both got a 24 hour ban becuase of this, and your at it again? And now your trashing users just because they picked the pic Coronis set up? You have issues dude, major issues. MetaStar 22:29, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
 * like I said before, I found it highly suspicious that a new user would suddenly register and start making the exact same changes you made. --DrBat 00:20, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Not again! User:MetaStar and User:DrBat why do you two insist on dragging this out. I suggested the picture of White Phoenix to alleviate the bickering, not stir it up more. It's not fun to see the edit war you two are creating (this talk page is becoming downright hostile). If you two don't act like adults and come to a sensible solution, I'm going to get an admin and we'll have a vote (just like in Huntress) and the decision will be taken out of both your hands. Coronis 22:38, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I've already stated my argument; she's only worn the white costume twice. The red costume is far more significant to the character.
 * Furthermore, despite attempting to talk politely and maturely to MetaStar, MetaStar has been nothing but rude and insulting. Check her talk page if you don't believe me. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:MetaStar --DrBat 00:27, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Im a GUY! MetaStar 00:32, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I was just trying to help and I can see your point. It just the constant reversions are getting slightly annoying so I was trying to find a solution that might appease BOTH of you. If you feel the current pic is better, then I will happily go along with that. I wasn't singling you out, MetaStar is also part of this. I can see where you feel abused (and rightly so), and I am sure had I been the one getting called names, I would be less than thrilled about allowing MetaStar to keep his pics up while yours get taken down. My only complaint is the thing about User:MarvelousGirl being "suspicious", she is my cousin (she was on my computer just a few hours ago, and she thought you were calling her a sockpuppet), and spent a lot of time on wikipedia with me, so she saw all of edit wars on Jean and Rachel's articles (I said I wasn't getting into it, but she really wanted to help out) Coronis 00:47, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I just assumed, because she started making edits to the articles right when MetaStar was doing his reversions. Anyway, I'm really sorry for the misunderstanding there. --DrBat 01:01, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Hello everyone, I'm new so bear with me. But the White Costume has been worn more than twice. Voila, a reference! http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b208/ggnimages/Fave%20Characters/phoenix90.jpg  I believe it to me much more significant to the character than the other color costumes. Adding to that, perhaps a section should be added regarding her costumes? --jealousghost 04:29, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

confusing
I know it is supposed to be confusing, since Claremont is such a fan of clones and daughters and sons of future timelines and entities linving in a character's body, but switching from calling the character Jean Gray on one paragraph to Phoenix on another only makes things more confising!!

I propose to call the character Jean Gray in all paragraphs, unless we're talking about the firebird thing alone. If it is important to point that we're talking about a Phoenix-influenced Jean Gray, I think we could call her "Jean Gray/Phoenix", then. Imagine that we are writting this for a person with no idea of who this characters are.

--201.114.99.246 03:17, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

For the record, her family name is Grey with an E not A. Dstorres

Image problems
The point has been made on the Wikiproject talk page that this article is having image trouble, featuring poorly illustrative images than run close to violating Fair Use, and focusing on newer images and images of Phoenix rather than Jean Grey. I'd like to work with others to redress this. First of all, I would like to see a solo picture of Jean Grey in the SHB, not Phoenix. Personally, I'd like to see her in the last X-Men uniform she wore, with the grey sweater and the black leather jacket. Thoughts? --Chris Griswold 00:46, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Image:Riotatxavier's.jpg You mean this one? --Facto 01:11, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
 * That one. --Chris Griswold 01:16, 10 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I actually disagree, though I see the need for some kind of solution on this issue. All other issues aside, I think the last picture we had was very illustrative of Jean Grey in many of her incarnations over the past several decades, focusing on the role for which she is best known: Phoenix. Frankly, the Phoenix and the Dark Phoenix saga are defining events in Jean Grey's character, and it is absolutely justifiable to put an image of Phoenix in the SHB. Like I said, though, I like the previous one because it wasn't ONLY Phoenix that was in the picture. The Phoenix costume is synonymous with Jean Grey like no other costume is.

Just my thoughts. I'm curious to see what other people think. -Vontafeijos 04:00, 10 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Does it have the proper tag? —Lesfer (talk/@) 05:24, 10 June 2006 (UTC) Image:Grey Hughes.jpg
 * Can we use fanart (the Grey-Hughes image)? Yes, I know it's by AH!, a professional artist, but it's still fanart. - SoM 00:34, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

What about the Jean art by Ethan Van Sciver? NeoCoronis 00:23, 11 June 2006 (UTC) Image:PhoenixNX134.jpg
 * She never wore that costume in-comic (it was a cover for an abandoned Phoenix mini that they used up as a NXM cover rather than letting it go to waste). - SoM 00:34, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Not only has she worn that costume for a short period of time, but the likelihood of her wearing it in the future is very rare, with the X-Men dropping the leather outfits after Morrison left the series. --DrBat 00:32, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, she hasn't worn the black costume since New X-Men #150. Since Jean's current costume is the classic Phoenix costume, maybe we should use a pic with her in it, like maybe the cover to Uncanny X-Men # 354. I have that one and lots more Jean pics if needed :) NeoCoronis 00:50, 11 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Give us some samples? I'd like to see her in something classic green Phoenix, please... ;-) CovenantD 01:16, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Heres a few from my scans collection NeoCoronis 01:56, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Green Phoenix Costume Jean
 * Marvel Girl/Green Phoenix hybrid costume
 * Red Phoenix costume
 * Green Phoenix costume variant of Red Phoenix with B/W background
 * Green Phoenix, Adam Hughes art
 * Green Phoenix with psychic aura

This one was added by User:Dstorres
 * Green Phoenix, Greg Land art


 * I prefer the Green Phoenix Greg Land art uploaded by Dstorres, or the one that we had before with the multiple incarnations. -Vontafeijos 18:33, 11 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Im leaning towards Green Phoenix costume variant of Red Phoenix with B/W background or Green Phoenix Costume Jean. Anyone else have an opinion on this? NeoCoronis 18:38, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I like the Greg Land one. I would like the Phoenix Endsong with B/W background, but as the background contains prominent images of other characters, it is both confusing and very questionably fair use. --DDG 18:47, 12 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Definitely the Green Phoenix, Greg Land art. This is probably her best known look and lacks the cartoony quality of Green Phoenix Costume Jean. CovenantD 18:55, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
 * It's not though (and this applies to all the Greg Land pics), because the Phoenix symbol is HUGE, whereas on the actual green Phoenix costume (as opposed to a recoloured red one), it's tiny and contained within a black neck-area, as shown in the Cockrum pic. - SoM 20:44, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it was just the original cover (which had her wearing the red outfit) recolored. --DrBat 21:00, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I uploaded a edited version of the Phoenix Endsong with the B/W background, no characters in the back. NeoCoronis 20:37, 12 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Doesn't altering the picture violate "fair use" though? Don't get me wrong, I like the pic, I just don't want to use anything that would have to be pulled. CovenantD 20:46, 12 June 2006 (UTC)


 * No. It's even better when we crop the image. I like this last one by NeoCoronis. —Lesfer (talk/@) 21:28, 12 June 2006 (UTC)


 * So, would anyone have a problem with using Phoenix Endsong with the B/W background for the SHB pic? NeoCoronis 03:21, 13 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I feel that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Jean.png reflects Jean's history and powers much better than any other picture. However, if you must, then use Phoenix Endsong with the B/W background. Anything is better than the current picture, which does not do justice to the artistic and dramatic significance of Jean Grey in the X-men universe. Before this issue is resolved, I would like to temporarily return the picture back to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Jean.png. To: ExcaliDragon, really, the current picture is awful. Jean looks like an amateur student, instead of the omega-level mutant with one of the richest history among X-men. Baderyp 13:22, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
 * POV much? And Jean has never worn the Dark Phoenix costume - she's worn a red costume twice - an X-Factor red costume with yellow X over it, and the redesigned Phoenix costume of the X-Men: Revolution period. Phoenix has, Rachel had, not Jean. Ergo, not representative.- ExcaliDragon 02:22, 16 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Agree with Baderyp. I'm not a huge fan of the edited B&W background one... the stripes made sense when the other characters were in the image, but now they're just strange looking. When the other characters are in the image, though, they're distracting. It's still way better than the other one uploaded by Griswold. -Vontafeijos 19:17, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Which picture do you think I uploaded? --Chris Griswold 19:24, 13 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Oops. I meant the Riot at Xavier's one. Sorry about that. -Vontafeijos 20:33, 13 June 2006 (UTC)


 * We have a lot of SHB pic changing going on, should we have a vote and pick one picture for the SHB, so (hopefully) it won't be a different picture every hour? NeoCoronis 13:57, 16 June 2006 (UTC)


 * meh. what's the point.  no one respects the vote anyway.  Exvicious 09:49, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

New jean Pic vote
As the SHB image is changing every hour, lets have a vote to select a pic of Jean once and for all. I don't care what is picked, just as long as we pick one we can agree on. And the Jean.png has been changed to a Jim Lee pic of Jean in her gold-and-blue costume, so I left it out (as she hasn't worn that suit in years). If anyone has a pic that they like better than the ones I have, feel free to nominate your own, and add it to the list. NeoCoronis 21:57, 16 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Jean Reborn
 * Green Phoenix Costume Jean
 * Green Phoenix B/W background
 * Green Phoenix, Adam Hughes art
 * Green Phoenix with psychic aura
 * Green Phoenix, Greg Land art
 * Jean in Black
 * Phoenix revolution
 * Phoenix w/ claws in foreground


 * Of the images presented, I prefer PhoenixES1v.jpg (Greg Land's). That said, I prefer the Jim Lee version over Greg Land's. EVula 22:28, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I'll second the Jim Lee pic, with the Riot image as second choice. OTOH, aren't polls evil? - SoM 23:45, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I'll vote for anything BUT the Jim Lee pic, only because she hasn't worn that suit in a decade. And voting isn't evil, it's the backbone of democracy, lol. But seriously, if I changed the pic on my own, it could lead to an edit war, but if we all pick a picture that we can agree on, then maybe we can hold off the "flavor of the month" pictures that keep popping up in the SHB. NeoCoronis 00:10, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Breaking down the images:
 * Lee - it's not been worn in a while, but it's her longest-serving costume in terms of issues worn (go check chronologyproject.com using the bounds I posted above if you don't believe me), which helps on fair use (which is the reason the Dark Phoenix costume pic was shot down, remember), and it was the costume used on the cartoon, which helps further.
 * The Land green-replacing-red variants (ES1v and 2V) - depict a costume she's never actually worn (green with huge Phoenix symbol), even in Endsong itself. They're non-representative variants, churned out for speed rather than accuracy. Can't be fair use for that reason - they've got to be representative.
 * The other Land pic (out of the water) is at a bad angle to show the costume. Plus, it duplicates the Cockrum image from down the page very nicely (changing the angle doesn't stop it being a swipe), which is another strike against it.
 * Hughes pic simply isn't a SHB pic. We want a single image focusing on the character, not a series of panels (and what's that arty-farty thing he's doing with the legs & sash blending together and going white? And her hair isn't red).
 * PhoenixAXM.JPG is a horrible, horrible scan. Whatever its' merits or otherwise as a picture, it would need to go back to the glass before it could be considered.
 * The Bachalo pic is taken from uncannyxmen.net. I speak from experience when I say, you don't want to go there.
 * The Quietly one's the second-best (as I said) after the Lee pic. But it's a team uniform rather than a Jean-specific costume, amongst other things. - SoM 00:55, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Re-Scanned Green Phoenix with psychic aura, so after that much trouble, I'm voting for it NeoCoronis 01:46, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
 * There is no way in the world that is rescanned - do an experiment, and put the older version in one Firefox tab, the newer version in another and flick back and forth. They are pixel-for-pixel identical in every way except:
 * The plonking of the word "Phoenix" (in Courier script) over "Warren"
 * Additional JPEG artifiacts, of the sort you would get from saving a JPEG as a JPEG again in MSPaint (that's not a surmise, I've just done it to double-check, and I got exactly the same set of artifacts).
 * It is literally impossible to get two scans, done at different times, to line up pixel-for-pixel identical the way they have here, never mind the same edits to wipe away the bg. And the additional graining from the JPEG saving confirms it. You opened the image in MSPaint, wiped out "Warren", crudely inserted " Phoenix " over it, resaved and expected it to pass as a new scan. When the result not only suffers from all the original's problems, but a whole new set too. - SoM 02:16, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
 * That was breathtaking. --Chris Griswold 13:50, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
 * ...I don't know how to take that...? - SoM 06:54, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Like a man, SoM; like a man. --Chris Griswold 21:26, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
 * The current version was the original I had on my old PC, the first version PhoenixAXM.JPG was an attempt to shrink it to fit an article I had been doing (which I still had on my current PC). I had to look though some of my picture CDs to find the original, re-load (re-scanned was a "slip of the tongue" as it were) it on my current hardrive, and then uploaded it on Wikipedia. Afterwards, I thought "Warren" was just odd, so I edited the pic with Paintshop (and the Comic MS script wouldn't fit clearly) and re-loaded. NeoCoronis 02:54, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I meant rescanned literally. The levels are off, the colours are off and it's badly cropped out. (And Comic Sans = evil, for the record) - SoM 19:51, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't know why you are being so hostile to me when all I've done is try to help. Have I in anyway done anything to you to make you jump all over me like this? NeoCoronis 02:54, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm not being hostile. I'm being honest and avoiding weasel words. There's a difference. - SoM 19:51, 17 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Hm. Why isn't the Greg Land Jean.png image available anymore? I thought that one was the best in terms of representation.-Vontafeijos 03:02, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Deleted as non-fair use via. WP:IFD. Not an option. - SoM 19:51, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Why was that one non-fair use while the current one (Phoenix with claws in foreground) is? Don't they both come from Endsong?Baderyp 21:18, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
 * If I really had to pick one here, it would be the variant cover of Endsong, green costume. I take issue with claims that it's non-representative... it's totally representative of Phoenix costumes previously worn, even if it's not exact. -Vontafeijos 03:02, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
 * When there are plenty of images which ARE "exact", it's not fair use to use one which isn't.
 * And that's assuming the Dave Cockrum suit is desirable as the box image in the first place... - SoM 19:51, 17 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Someone replaced the Greg Land Jean.png with the Jim Lee version, and before that with a Van Sciver New X-Men cover NeoCoronis 03:13, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

I really like the one that's up now, as shown in this diff. Can we add it to the list? CovenantD 00:44, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Sure, since you asked so nicely, it's on the list now. NeoCoronis 01:33, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
 * That one's nice. -Vontafeijos 03:22, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I'll vote for current but overall I'm not a fan of character articles with text on the SHB picture (title articles are different as comic covers work best, and often have text of course). Of the other choices above, the Greg Land works best as a textless image, but would depend on confirmation of SoM's comment that she's never actually worn that costume. Markeer 13:08, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Endsong
Redid the Endsong article. Hopefully it's a bit more comprehensive. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.177.11.148 (talk) 21:14, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Spoken version of Jean Grey
The spoken version of the article is up, if you have any comments let me know. I didn't think it would take 52 minutes for me to read it all. --Facto 07:01, 12 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Breathier, please. Make it sexy. --Chris Griswold 07:50, 12 June 2006 (UTC)


 * That .ogg soundfile for is apparently a machine being poorly recorded. It's like someone recorded themselves whilst using a synthesizer, or some other device that messes up one's voice. Isn't there...like...some sort of policy against unintelligible spoken article files? ACS (Wikipedian) 20:14, 16 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Glad to see this comment of mine was ignored. Talk pages at their best. Anyway, I don't know about you two, but I have a fierce prejudice against additions that hurt more than help. Having no sound file would be better presenting Facto's Robotalk. I'm removing it. ACS (Wikipedian); Talk to the Ace. See what I've edited. 00:18, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Timeline of jeans costumes?
I've come across several timelines comiling all of jeans's costumes together, they were very interesting and very helpful, i've even started to make my own version as well, what if wikipedia were to add a costume timeline to jeans bio? any thoughts are appreciated. --joshie 02:16, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Do it on the talk first, and we'll see if it's good enough for the article. --Jamdav86 11:45, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Overlinking
There is alot of overlinking in the article. For eg: Wolverine and Cyclops have been linked about 5 times. Could somebody pick up the slack and sort this out? TommyStardust 14:46, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Main image about to be lost
It looks like we are about to lose the central box image of Jean Grey as Phoenix. Its page is Image:Jeangr.png and it needs to be filled in with copyright information if it is to be saved. I don't know where this image came from, but I put Greg Land as the artist because that is what it said in this article before the image was removed. Is it part of a cover? -- Lilwik 10:52, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Some observations
I don't feel this article has dealt well with the Morrison/Pak retcons (or the Claremont retcons he did in Classic X-Men backup stories) that have re-retconned the original Phoenix into being Jean as opposed to a cosmic copy. In Here Comes Tomorrow it shows that Jean returns to life via a coccoon/Phoenix egg after she dies (just like in Jamaica Bay) in the last place she perished (in this case, the blue area of the moon). In Endsong it identifies Jean as being Phoenix even without the Phoenix Force. When Jean originally merged with the Phoenix on the shuttle, it didn't transfer a "portion of Jean's soul" into the new body - it transferred all of her soul except a small spark. New body, same soul = same character. Also, it never said that the Phoenix force was what gave Jean back her TK in Morrison's run or that Scott's possession with Apocalypse gave Jean the push she needed to accept being the avatar of the Phoenix. Not sure where those ideas came from. 71.118.110.172 01:37, 23 April 2007 (UTC)Slung 04/22/07

Endsong/Warsong
I think someone should create a page for both Phoenix Endsong and Phoenix Warsong as they are important events in the X-Men comics, like the Dark Phoenix Saga.--Kitsune dxb 20:37, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't think there's enough information to warrant a new article yet. Maybe after Warsong, but right now only Jean/Phoenix has really been affected by the Endsong mini-series. So far I think Endong is a Jean/Phoenix story not an X-Men story arc. - User talk:Anarkeya 7/23/06
 * I plan on updating the Warsong article as the issues come out. Will post when I update so I can get some feedback and possibly some help.  So far it's looking as though Warsong might need more updates in the Phoenix Force article rather than in the Jean Grey article.
 * What would go on such articles? Ive been hunting round for copies of the comics, but cant find endsong or warsong. So would this article be basic word for word spoilers of the comics? I dont know if thats what wiki is about. Theres not much info you could post about the comics without giving away the entire story.Baaleos 12:23, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

X3: Phoenix Speculation (SPOILER WARNING)
"However, the Phoenix is also probably an external cosmic force that inhabited her and tapped into her unlimited potential, as many a time in X2, she displayed the fiery energy of the Phoenix in her eyes, and most notably, she appeared to be engulfed in flames at the end just before she supposedly drowned. Another fact that further proves this is the fact that the faint outline of a Phoenix was seen flying over the waters of the Alkali Lake, at the end, just before the credits came out. It is the Phoenix who kills Scott (Cyclops) and later Xavier."

I think the above is speculation trying to make what we know about Jean from X-Men comics fit with the events in X3. Yes we see hints of Phoenix in Jean's eyes and in the water but this is not proof that Jean is possesed by an alien force. We know that the movies resemble to comics but need not adhere to them directly. If there are future movies they will have to decide how to treat this but God knows that there are so many Universes and lifetimes of Jean you could almost do anything and it would have been on one book or another.

mice 20:43, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

The above has been cleaned up quite a bit ans its a lot better. I still have to nit pick though.

"In X-Men: The Last Stand, she appears in a form similar to Dark Phoenix, but is merely called the Phoenix and exhibits Phoenix-level powers."

I agree that Jean definitely makes the transition to Dark Phoenix or something a lot like that in X3. However, much like many characters in this movie (Kitty, Colossus, to name 2) their hero names are not used. I don't think anyone refers to Jean as Phoenix in this or any of the X* movies at least not verbally. If I'm just splitting hairs just tell me. We all know who she is so perhaps it doesn't matter.

mice 06:07, 27 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Professor X refers to her has phoenix, or at least mentions the Phoenix alter ego when shes unconscious. There are alternate versions of the House battle Phoenix vs Xavier, and it has psychic voices on it, in the psychic dialogue, Jean looses control to the Phoenix, and she says in a "screechy" voice. "Now and forever...I am PHOENIX." This is also the only time where Phoenix is talked to directly, and refered to by name. (Professor addresses her with telepathy and says "Phoenix!! Bring Jean back!!" Baaleos 12:30, 16 May 2007 (UTC)