Talk:Jeanne Guyon

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Dominique Tronc appreciated the contribution of this article on madame Guyon which enlarges the view on her. He added some references of old and recently published works ; and a link to "madameguyon.fr". He can be contacted as webmaster of this site or of "cheminsmystiques.fr" : he will be happy to have a contact : a 'conversation'. -- — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.44.122.39 (talk) 14:36, 7 May 2012 (UTC) The name Bouvier, which is originally from Savoy reminds us of Jacqueline Bouvier Kennedy whose family is also from Savoy. So although this lady is not a direct ancestor, she may very well be a distant relative. --

In his main work, The World as Will and Representation, Schopenhauer, in several places, refers to Mme. Guyon as an example of saintliness. By this, he means someone who has renounced selfishness and worldliness. For Schopenhauer, the fact that she has acted in this manner within the framework of Christianity is not essential.

I deleted the archaic organization---but the article does need some simple sections. . .if somebody could put them on.--Jdavid2008 19:45, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

I removed the epilepsy sentence as there is nothing in any literature to support that statement. I cleaned up text and added citations where missing. I added new details which are emerging with the publication of new materials in English. I added links to new references. Roger Nebel — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.32.165.208 (talk) 12:59, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Inaccuracies
I take exception the initial statement that Madam Guyon was linked to the Quietist movement. In her autobiography, she repeatedly denied even knowing Molinos until she read the name in a newspaper (Part 3, Ch. 3 of her autobiography) where she stated: "They then made known to His Majesty that I was a heretic, that I had constant correspondence with Molinos_I, who did not know there was such a person as Molinos in the world until I learned about it from the Gazette." It is true that the ruling church officials attempted to link her to the movement, but it cannot be asserted to be true, as such.

I also take possible exception to the statement that the Quietist Movement was considered heretical when your own article on Miguel Molinos states: “The matter was referred to the Inquisition. It pronounced that the Guida spirituale was perfectly orthodox, and censured the intemperate zeal of Segneri.”

Lightsearch 16:50, 6 May 2007 (UTC)lightsearch


 * This article is basically straight from the Catholic Encyclopedia--and could very well have inaccuracies. Please feel free to rewrite any part that has mistakes--and the whole article if you have time :) Also, it needs to be organized I think with headers--I would do it but I don't know enough about her... It would be really good if you could!--Jdavid2008 18:51, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Nancy C. James recently published "The Pure Love of Madame Guyon - The Great Controversy in the Court of Louis XIV" (University Press of America - June 2007) which corrects many inaccuracies and misconceptions about the life and works of Madame Guyon. 65.118.222.7 15:59, 3 September 2007 (UTC)Roger Nebel

I would like to comment that, even moreso than the name of a particular movement at a particular time, Quietism is definitely for Catholics the name of a heresy, which crops up in various eras. Basically it's the idea that one may attain the heights of holiness through passive prayer without any other significant human effort to dispose oneself to and actively practice Charity. Catholics believe, based on Scripture, that salvation and the Christian life entails both the grace of God received through faith in Jesus, and also human effort, even though effort all by itself is insufficient for salvation, God definitely asks it of us, and calls us to co-operate with Grace. Madame Guyon wasn't necessarily willfully espousing heresy, she professed her faithfulness to the Church and in the end she was willing to renounce her mistakes and stop promoting them. Even if her books are not "all bad," there are many far better writers on mystical prayer. Why read Guyon at all, when you can read Teresa of Avila and John of the Cross? But for the Protestants who picked up her works and ran with them, Madame Guyon was more acceptable. --Elizdelphi (talk) 02:45, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

It's a misconception to state that Guyon simply and only practiced passive detachment. She was extremely active in starting hospitals, making medicinals for the patients, and teaching at St. Cyr, among other activities. In fact it was at St. Cyr that she came to the attention of the authorities - granted for teaching passive prayer - but the act of teaching is clearly active. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.100.36.216 (talk) 20:27, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

"In the Christian dispute regarding grace and works, Guyon defended the belief that salvation is the result of grace rather than works alone." This represents a frequent and disingenuous Protestant misrepresentation of Catholic doctrine. No Catholic theologian ever argued against the necessity of grace and faith, or that we could be justified by works alone. Guyon would have had no need to take a stance upon a non-existent controversy since Catholics believe that a person is justified by works as well as by faith (James 2:24). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.88.125.179 (talk) 18:14, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

Catholic Encyclopedia on Mysticism
First she attained a lively sentiment of the presence of God, perceived as a tangible reality. Prayer becomes easy to her; in it she is vouchsafed a savor of God which detaches her from creatures. This is what she calls "the union of the powers". She remains in this state for eight years; it is succeeded by another state in which she loses the sense of God's graces and favors, she has no taste for anything spiritual, is powerless to act, and afraid of her own baseness. This was the state of "mystical death" in which she remained for seven years; from this crisis she passes, as it were re-awakened and transformed, into the state of resurrection and new life. Whereas in the first of the three states she possessed God, in this last state she is possessed by Him; then God was united to the powers of her soul, but now He is united to its substance; it is He who acts in her; she becomes like an automaton in His hands; she writes remarkable things without preparation and without reflection. Her own activity disappears, to be replaced by the action of God which moves her, and she now enters into the "apostolic state". This apostolate she is to exercise not in preaching the Gospel, but in spreading the mystical life, the theory of which she presents in the Moyen court et facile de faire oraison (Short and Easy Method of Prayer), a work inspired mostly by her own experiences. In this work she distinguishes three kinds of prayer. The first is meditation properly so-called, the second is "the prayer of simplicity", which consists in keeping oneself in a state of recollection and silence in the presence of God; in the third, which is active contemplation, the soul, conscious that God is taking possession of it, leaves Him to act and remains in repose, abandoning itself to the Divine effluence which fills it -- powerless to ask anything for itself, since it has renounced all its own interests. This last state is pure love. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Erkin2008 (talk • contribs) 02:04, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Motte/Mothe
Why is her name spelled "de la Motte"? It is supposed to be "de la Mothe."Lestrade (talk) 04:16, 24 July 2008 (UTC)Lestrade

Some language not NPOV
Here's the most obvious example found in the "Life after Marriage" paragraph is the use of the language "mystical ideas." "Mystical" is subjective in this context (in almost any context really). This structure is also used to set up the next couple of sentences which are subtly pejorative. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jbmckim (talk • contribs) 17:35, 22 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Quietism (Christian philosophy) is defined as being mystical, I believe it is appropriate for the article. The article has been substantially changed since 2007, I've removed the NPOV template, please use or better yet  for sentences, then detail issues here. This will help address them in a timely manner. - RoyBoy 05:40, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

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Reference in Encyclopédie
Madame Guyon is referenced in Louis de Jaucourt's article on Quietism for the Encyclopedia of Diderot and d'Alembert, is this worth contributing to her article? Hclark6 (talk) 06:31, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

Dubious
13th April 1648 was a Thursday in the Julian Calendar (AFAICT) so therefore perfectly consistent with her saying she was born on the Eve of Easter. 2.29.206.252 (talk) 10:00, 26 September 2022 (UTC)


 * France officially adopted the Gregorian Calendar in 1582, according to which 13th April 1648 was a Monday. While it is true that the Gregorian Calendar was not immediately widely accepted or used and it took several decades for the Gregorian Calendar to fully replace the Julian Calendar in all of France, this only holds for rural areas, and it is likely that in 1648 -- more than 60 years after its official adoption -- the Gregorian calendar was in use in Madame Guyon's home town of Montargis. Niranam Raichue (talk) 23:04, 2 February 2023 (UTC)


 * What's more, while Easter Sunday was on April 12th according to the Gregorian calendar,according to the Julian calendar Easter Sunday was on April 2nd in 1648 ( see here), which clearly shows that the Gregorian calendar was used in Madame Guyon:s time and place, and that her purported birthday, April 13th, 1648 was a Monday. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:4454:48D:CC00:C49D:77CD:6119:F352 (talk) 11:16, 3 February 2023 (UTC)