Talk:Jeet Kune Do/Archive 2

I Edited something
Well noticing boxing wasnt created by europeans & the fact Bruce Lee was in American doing boxing i changed it to American Boxing instead of "European Boxing" Here is what i changed "Bruce Lee, and thus JKD, was heavily influenced by European boxing and fencing." replaced european with American

Forgot to add my name ChesterTheWorm (talk) 23:23, 25 August 2008 (UTC) ChesterTheWorm

Why don't we just change it to "Western Boxing" which is what I've been taught. And JKD's influenced by Wing Chun as well don't forget. So shouldn't it be: "Bruce Lee, and thus JKD, was heavily influenced by Wing Chun, western boxing, and fencing theory." Cremac (talk) 12:08, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

System/Philosopy
All I've added the term System/Philosopy as a means of compromise. I am one of the originators of this article and haven't been here in a while. JKD is both a system and a philosopy so both terms are applicable. The system by definition has prescribed guidance; although admittingly it is open ended to allow students to "add what is specfically their own". The fact that there are guiding principles is a system in of itelf. Please read the "Branches" section as this describes the systemic portions of the JKD Framework. The other edit was removing Mr. Dan Mikeska's name. No disrespect to this gentlemen but there have been many dicussions on who to include and the concensus was to only mention first generation teachers who studied under Lee himself. If we do otherwise we run the risk of listing every JKD teachers who adheres to each of the Branches. I hope everyone finds this fair enough. FrankWilliams (talk) 17:57, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Rewording of this line
"Jun Fan" was Lee's Chinese given name, so the literal translation is "Bruce Lee's Way of the Intercepting Fist."

It's not a literal translation given as Jun Fan does not mean Bruce Lee. Just a little rewording would fix it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.0.106.243 (talk) 17:29, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Absorb what is useful and reject what is useless
The section on absorbing what is useful claims that the principle does not mean taking useful things from various martial arts and assembling them into your own. Cass Magda in the book Jeet Kune Do Conversations claims the same thing. But yet we know that Bruce Lee did exactly that; he took various techniques he felt were useful and synthesized them into one art. So how should the principle be interpreted? The literal interpretation seems to be how JKD was built. Does anyone have any further insight into this issue? Also, the paragraph needs to discuss the other half, rejecting what is useless. Both parts must be included, like yin and yang. -- Rising Sun Wiki  23:04, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

RisingSunWiki thanks for looking after this article. Have no issue with adding rejecting what is useless; I mistakenly deleted it when reverting the changes to the combat ranges which some people still do not get. I think I explain this in the article itself but some people still insist on putting in the antiquated: short, medium, long. Any way the Absorb what is useful and reject what is useless statement simply means that you actually try the techniques in actual combat and not pick-n-choose techniques solely on your likes and dis-likes, or whether you happen to like the way a technique "LOOKS". Certainly incorporating techniques from various system and incorporating them into one's JKD is absolutely crucial. FrankWilliams (talk) 16:49, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

See Also: My note in this page, about a relevant edit. Whatrevolution (talk) 07:12, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Training
Is Jeet Kune do still taught today? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.80.113.184 (talk) 01:03, 1 July 2009 (UTC) --LonewolfSoldier (talk) 23:13, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Yes it definitely is, I personally learn it Awally88 (talk) 13:31, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Ummm...
This should be an article telling users WHAT JKD is, not how to practice it and get nice and technical with definitions...informative yes, but literally like some JKD master was sitting next to you lecturing you as if you were a pupil with reflective questions... Leonnatus (talk) 05:04, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Stop hits and fencing, and sources
I removed the line that says a stop hit in fencing is called a counter attack. It is not, a stop hit is a particular type of counter attack, and as far as I can tell JKD people use the term exactly as fencers do.

A useful section might be to try to list Lee's sources, since there is some contention about that and no good list online. For example, he used Castello's fencing book for quite a lot of his ideas on stop hits and opposition counter attacks. 98.194.79.167 (talk) 16:01, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

Jeet Kune Do can be dirty when it comes to fighting
Jeet Kune Do is more like self-defense, it is more like do whatever means necessary without getting hurt. For example, they can hit parts of the body like the private areas of a person that cause them to be in pain. —Preceding unsigned comment added by LonewolfSoldier (talk • contribs) 23:44, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Centerline, Absorbing what is useful
I've expanded upon Centerline, adding some explanation and images from Wikimedia Commons. I rephrased Absorbing what is useful, to make the intended meaning more clear. Whatrevolution (talk) 21:19, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

Anonymous Capslock
JEET KUNE DO STARTED IN 1965 WITH BRUCE LEE.HE TAUGHT WHO EVER WANTING TO LEARN MOSTLY.WELL I NEVER MEANT THE MAN .HOWEVER I STARTED LEARNING FROM HIM SINCE 1966 THROUGH HIS BOOKS AND VIDIOS'.20 YEARS LATER I RECIEVED A MASTERS DEGREE IN AMERICAN FREE STYLE MARTIAL ARTS.DONT YOU THINK THE CERTIFICATE SHOULD HAVE SAID JEET KUNE DO OR IS FREE STYLE MARTIAL ARTS THE SAME. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.88.182.248 (talk) 21:05, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

IF A PERSON HAS PRACTICE JEET KUNE DO 40 PLUS YEARS HE DOES NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAY HE IS CERTIFIED IN THE ART OF JEET KUNE DO UNLESS BRUCE LEE HIM SELF GAVE HIM THAT CERTIFICATION I GUESS YOUR SAYING WHEN YOU PUT ALL YOUR LIFE IN TO SOME THING IT DONT MEAN ANYTHING THEN WELL YOU MIGHT AS WELL QUITE SELLING MOVIES AND BOOKS ;ECT —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.88.182.248 (talk) 21:30, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

Economy of motion, Three Parts of JKD
I've merged Three Parts of JKD into Economy of motion, and rephrased the surrounding text to clarify the merger. Economy of motion contained a direct reference to Three Parts of JKD by name (clearly same author), and I felt that the separation was unnecessary and unclear. Whatrevolution (talk) 08:29, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Principles
I've modified the introductory paragraphs, for grammar and style, including internal links to Nonverbal Communication, Epee Fencing, and Wing Chun. Whatrevolution (talk) 10:10, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Country of Origin
It is well known that Bruce Lee concieved and invented his system of Jeet Kune Do while in the U.S. It has also been put forth that JKD would not had been possible anywhere other then the U.S. because the U.S. is a "melting pot" of people's and culture (much like JKD is a melting pot of diverse styles and systems). It is this dynamic along with "strong individualism" that allows individuals to create and "express" themselves (much like JKD does in tailoring itself to the individual). The U.S. creates a unique atmosphere for the development of new and often radical ideas (much like JKD has been accused of being radical and non-traditional). Other countries simply do not tolerate such behavior from individuals and encourage strict traditionalist views. JKD seems to be really "American" from this perspective. FrankWilliams 18:57, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
 * JKD could have been possible elsewhere. London and Singapore are melting pots as well. Even Hong Kong during Bruce Lee's lifetime was a synthesis of East and West. -- Rising Sun Wiki  02:53, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I've reverted the recent "official" and country of origin info in the infobox. As mentioned above, BL was a "synthesis" of East & West, Hong Kong & Hollywood.  The BL Foundation is a California non-profit corp, so should California be the country of origin?  Moreover, the BLF is dedicated to BL as a whole, not just JKD.  So is the BLF the official organization which oversees JKD?  Not really.  This aspect of the article is subject to lots of POV, so ego stuff like "official" and "country of origin" is best left out, if only because we do not have WP:RS for it.--S. Rich (talk) 16:06, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

S. Rich, California is not "a country"(24.62.224.219 (talk) 22:11, 16 March 2011 (UTC))

Chinese or US Martial Art?
This page says it is a Chinese Martial Art however on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_martial_arts it is listed as a US Martial Art?

Which should it be classified as? Awally88 (talk) 13:34, 4 September 2010 (UTC)


 * It is American. He began to develop his techniques (Jun Fan) and philosophy (JKD) when he (in his mind) came to close to having his butt kicked by an older (much older) Chinese master.  In one the books about him that are now 25 or so years old (I'll assume the text came from either a diary or from what he dictated to Linda Lee) "the fight went on much longer than it should have" because he adhere to the traditional art he'd been teaching.  So, development of the art we know today was inspired by a practical opposition to tradition for its own sake -- which may still be core to today's Chinese culture.  He realized that when in combat and mortality is at issue either one adapts or one dies.  If you are willing to sacrifice some tradition in order to spend more time on earth you may live longer.


 * Both JKD (as his philosophy) and Jun Fan Gung Fu (as the first physical manifestation) were created in the United States and most of their development as done in the United States. The exception (as to location) being whatever contributions he made while working on films in Hong Kong.  I believe Sijo Lee was a United States citizen when he started to develop his philosophy.  As an art it seems obvious that what he developed for his own use reflected his belief.  What I remember about the chronology of events is clouded by time at the moment so I can't be sure of the order of events.  But it would be a mistake to think his methods didn't mature while he was on his back (and he was writing).


 * Sijo Lee's contributions to society extend far beyond either of these since the philosophical ideas of taking what you can use, making it your own and discarding the rest is equally relevant to managing people or leading an organization. "No limitation as limitation" is a life philosophy, too.


 * Respect to the authors of this article as it is close to what I learned about him, as third generation student under Dwight Woods and Dan Inosanto. Speaking of these two, I urge editors who know either of these great teachers to ask them for opinion about the content.  It isn't likely that either would want to be quoted I don't think, as many issues arose after Sijo Lee's passing and neither of these men wanted to much to do with that stuff, in my opinion.  However, much of what I view as a rich knowledge -- of Sijo Bruce Lee and Sijo Inosanto -- will be lost, if history (and legend) known to them is not documented.  If I ever find myself in Sifu Dwight's proximity again I will pursue this.


 * You will find Sifu Dwight here: http://www.unifiedmartialart.com/ (He does not know me by the name kernel.package. We've been out of touch since 1998 or 1999. We met while he was teaching in a park near U.S. 1 and 104th street, in Miami.)


 * Kernel.package (talk) 20:53, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Relationship to Philipino arts, Dan Inosanto and Linda Lee
This article is much better -- more neutral that what I saw many years ago. But no article about JKD or Sijo Lee can be complete without acknowledging Dan Inosanto's role in Bruce's life, as what would be called Bruce's best friend (save for Linda Lee). Sijo Inosanto is the one person who accompanied Bruce on his trips to Hong Kong.

My instructor is Dwight Woods, owner of the Unified Martial Art Academy in Kendall. By now (I hope), the heavy bag I donated around 1998 or 1999 should be well-beaten. I remember talking with Sifu Dwight and Sisuk Amador about things I'd read in books about Bruce Lee, by students and by Linda Lee. Please see my answer in this Discussion, about Jun Fan and JKD being American in origin. As stated in the article, Jeet Kune Do is not an art, but a philosophy. Both were influenced by Dan Inosanto. Out of respect to him as an artist and what influence he had on his friend, no article about either Bruce, JKD, or Jun Fan can be complete unless it contains information about Dan.

In a similar vein, Bruce was reported to be very depressed following his back injury. Linda Lee is credited with motivating him to write while he recovered. The "Tao of Jeet June Do" is a compilation of most of that work. But she too should be mentioned.

IMHO Kernel.package (talk) 21:08, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

etymology
If there's a translation of Jeet Kune, I don't see it. It ought to be in the first paragraph (imho). —Tamfang (talk) 09:20, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Great loss to the world
Removed section. No disrespect to the great loss, but it's unencyclopedic in tone and more suited in content to the main Bruce Lee article. Bteed (talk) 06:24, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

External links modified
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JKD Grappling and Larry Hartsell
I think to the Four ranges of combat section a sentence should mention that before he died, Lee assigned Larry Hartsell, one of Lee's students who also trained at his home, to investigate grappling/wrestling for greater inclusion into JKD and that at the time of Lee's death, 33 "formal techniques" had been incorporated into JKD. By the sound of it, Hartsell should also be listed as a "Notable" student in the Legacy section of Lee's Wiki entry. http://www.jkdassoc.com/about-us/ http://www.jkdassoc.com/larry-hartsell-an-american-icon/ Phantom in ca (talk) 17:59, 22 October 2018 (UTC)

Plagiarism
That The Tao of Jeet Kune Do is largely plagiarized seems a glaring omission from this article, as it i widely acknowledged. Perhaps the note as to tone is what suffices? I'd call this article "marketing" if not "propaganda".2601:648:8880:2B4A:AC4B:7CC:37EC:6D05 (talk) 16:00, 30 November 2018 (UTC)

Foundation and lineages
I think some basics about founding of JKD/however Bruce came to realization about the concepts of JKD is needed. Is it valid to have listing of what and where the JKD instructors of Bruce Lee deviated to? The real sketchy part is that JKD is infact in-concrete thing and can be interpreted as many ways. Either its Bruce's original Wing Chun system preserved as close to possible (Jun Fan Institute), takes concepts of Bruce Lee's martial research and develops them further in what Bruce (theoretically) would've done (Inosanto JKD Concepts), basis for completely different style (Wu Wei Gung Fu, Non-Classical Gung-Fu), some sort of philosophical cross-training, or just Bruce Lee's research/tools to add to your melee arsenal. Discuss. TrickShotFinn (talk) 15:12, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

Wikipedia has had similar arguments before: Talk:Jeet_Kune_Do/Archive_1

I changed lineages to notable practitioners. However problem remains with certain of Bruce Lee's students who deviated from JKD to found their own martial arts systems. Should they have their own section or something? They are (in a way) proto-JKD/Jun Fan Gung Fu practitioners and have knowledge and concepts shared with Jeet Kune Do.TrickShotFinn (talk) 17:59, 10 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Looks like an entire section promoting everyone who teaches JKD to me with club websites as references, I'll make a table of what is accepted in Wikipedia but even that is pushing it. No names will go in the table unless they are named in a third party source not club websites. Because this is Bruce Lee the all the Wikipedia rules are overlooked it's a disgrace Australianblackbelt (talk) 10:36, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

Original research in the arts? Normal.
Of course there's original research here. Every artist wants his work noticed with a pulled fist and decisive finish. 2604:3D09:2A77:9200:29F2:34C9:BA87:159D (talk) 22:40, 29 October 2023 (UTC)