Talk:Jeff Gordon/Archive 1

Dale Earnheart Jr.?
How come it says Jeff Gordon, But is about dale Earnheart Jr?

E.I. Lyrics
I'm not sure that this is noteworthy, but if it is, it should be quoted correctly.

From the article:

Gordon even became a subject in Nelly's breakout song "E.I." A passage from the rapper's 2000 hit goes:

I drive fastly, call me Jeff Gordon In a black S.S. with the navigation

the lyrics are I drive fastly, not quickly, as a google for E.I. lyrics shows, and the fact that a Google for "I drive quickly call" comes up "did not match any documents."

Correcting who actually critisized Goodyear tire
Goodyear responds to Tony Stewart tongue lashing by Merritt Johnson (RSS feed) on Mar 12th 2008 at 10:31AM

I am not sure how to edit the citation or if it matters.However I have worked at Goodyear for 16yrs.and I remember that interview vividly,It was Tony Unfortunately.If anyone has time to fix this it would be appreciated.--68.103.244.106 (talk) 21:32, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Locked
I loaded this up with the tag because it is continually being vandalized/fandalized by IP numbered users. At least now they'll have to be registered to make edits. If anybody disagrees with this, remove it. --Iamvered 08:26, 23 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Don't you have to be an admin to semi-protect pages? --Zpb52 08:27, 23 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Nobody told me I couldn't. And it makes sense, so I did.  --Iamvered 08:29, 23 May 2006 (UTC)


 * You appear to be mistaken, Iamvered. Adding protected does not affect the article's editing capabilities at all, rather than adding a colored text box to the top of the page. It must actually be locked first, and only administrators have the ability to do that. Dom Rem  | Yeah? 05:37, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Why I included the gay rumors
I want to fend this off before edit wars get started over it.

Gordon's sexuality is immaterial. I have very much tried to keep NPOV as my guide. However, the fact remains that rumors of his homosexuality are rampant to the point that he has himself addressed the question on more than one occasion. The fact that it has gotten so much attention makes it worthy of mention in the article.

I have included source material that remains neutral. Anyone wishing to change this section is asked to keep NPOV about the issue, and not just to remove it to "protect" the subject.

Iamvered 09:19, 2 February 2006 (UTC)


 * How exactly is using Slate and the Globe as a source NPOV? Those are not reputable sources for an encyclopedia. -Jcbarr 13:23, 2 February 2006 (UTC)


 * The Slate.com article does not voice an opinion one way or the other about Gordon's sexuality, it merely takes the sensationalism of  the Globe to task.  I agree that they are not reliable sources for the veracity of the issue of Gordon's sexuality, but they are perfectly valid as illustrative examples of how much impact the rumors have. The citation stands as being of a NPOV because there is nothing in the quote that denies or embraces the issue of his sexuality.  Iamvered 21:06, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

JEFF GORDON IS NOT A HOMO HE IS STRAIGHT I WILL NOT STAND FOR THIS HE IS MY FAVOrITE DRIVER AND IS BY FAR NOT A HOMO WHO EVER WROTE THIS IS A COMPLETE IDIOT!!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.1.20.34 (talk • contribs)
 * Please see WP:CIVIL. Gordon is my favorite driver too, but it's a Wikipedia article. The gay rumors are and have been there in the past, and IMHO definitely deserve a mention in the article. Dom Rem  | Yeah? 01:16, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
 * * Thanks. That's all I'm saying. Iamvered 22:10, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Am I the only one who has realized that popular people eventually become the unfortunate victims of rumors? And if Gordon is gay, well, accept it and move on! People need to learn to respect other people's feelings. But I agree, these rumors have been getting attention, and since some idiot decided to start a rumor that Jeff is gay that was told and believed by so many people that the rumor got so much attention that, well, i guess it had to be included. Well, i think i proved my point, and I need to get on with my research project on Jeff Gordon. Most sincerely, Anonymous Contributor

Thank u anonomus contributor I agree w/evrything u said x-cept in is not "if" it is NO!

I deleted the part of the gay rumors to keep the disputes down to a min.
 * Response to anonymous censor: DO NOT under any circumstances delete information you don't agree with on a discussion page.  These "disputes" you're trying to keep to a minimum is the very reason these pages exist, and this is precisely the forum for them.  If you disagree with something, say so.  But don't obliterate all record of everyone else's point of view just because you don't agree.  And sign your flippin' name.  --Iamvered 08:04, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Read what I wrote earlier regarding why this section is in here. And then improve that section if you like. Just maintain a NPOV and don't try to turn Wikipedia into fan propaganda (or a smear campaign either, for that matter). Just let the facts be facts. --Iamvered 08:04, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

The simple fact that more editing has been done on this subject than any other in the article is a testament to the need to address the issue. And in as much as all you have done is address the issue, not attempt to prove or disprove,the inclusion is commendable. dennis 18:05, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

The edit war begun it has. yoda

Here's the deal, I'll cite to sources that are as trustworthy as the globe and the slate. I'm not using them to prove the truth of the matter asserted, but merely to show that these rumors exist. These sources will be relevant to Jeff Gordon's life, and please don't delete. Whatever rumors I include are prevalent in the Nascar community, like the gay rumors, and therefore are NPOV for purposes of wikipedia, much like Iamvered asserts above.

Here's the deal. The people that are upset that the gay rumors keep getting deleted are probably upset because they see it as a form of gay bashing. That's not the point! It's not gay bashing to delete reports of rumors when those reports have never been credibly substantiated. Do you understand?? If they said Jeff Gordon was rumored to be a charity lover, I'd delete those as well if they weren't true! If Jeff Gordon were gay, then fine. However, you'd never see rumors like this included in the encyclopedia britannica. For that same reason, they should not be included here. Wikipedia is not a place to spread rumors. If you have proof, then go ahead and state it, but by merely stating the rumors, you're working to verify them in the minds of people that don't understand what NPOV means. Please get rid of the rumors because they add nothing to the article.


 * I've said it before: since I'm not sleeping with him, I have no dogs in the sexuality race at all. This is not some kind of gay agenda thing.  However, if you look at other Wikipedia articles about pop-culture figures in the public eye, pretty much anything that gets press is valid for inclusion-- Madonna's affairs, Michael Jackson's suspending a baby off a balcony, Kobe Bryant's alleged assault.  And talk and rumors abound too, in plenty of other articles: Anne Murray, James Dean, Elvis Presley are three entertainers alone who have similar homosexuality rumors flying about them; the article on Hillary Rodham Clinton includes references that some people think she killed Vince Foster, and that of Adolf Hitler purports that he may have had only one testicle.  I guarantee that Britannica wouldn't have included any of these things either. The point is: this article's simply mentioning that rumors of Jeff Gordon's homosexuality exist is valid, because it has received enough attention to become part and parcel of understanding precisely who Jeff Gordon is.  Knowledge, particularly encyclopedic knowledge, of a subject means presenting all the gathered data, and letting readers make up their minds for themselves on how to use that knowledge.  We pass no judgment one way or another.  Whether Gordon is gay or not, dating supermodels or not, or was a child prodigy or not can all be debated-- the fact that such debates exist about him are enough to warrant inclusion. Iamvered 21:56, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Well put Iamvered. As I said before, since these rumors have been lots of attention, I guess they do have to be added, whether people like it or not. Anyway, all it is is a damn rumor. Why believe in something that nobody even proved? --Anonimous Contributor

The thing is, you people who do include the gay rumors have absolutely no idea why the gay rumors exist. The gay rumors in the Nascar community is old news. If you could cite sources that are currently valid with respect to the origins of the gay rumors then I would be fine with it, but if you rely on tabloids as support for your comments then can you really say that you are adhering to the standards of wikipedia?? I doubt it. It's obvious that you include the gay rumors because you DO HAVE DOGS IN THE RACE. Lamvared, looking at your history, you do have dogs in the race. If you want to keep the gay rumors in the article then please be honest. You're obviously ignorant with respect to NASCAR, so don't try to debate facts that you obviously have a biased interest in. You want to eliminate bias? Then please stop trying to further your own agenda with your edits.

Another thing,Charles Dell WAS HERE if you must include the gay rumors, then please state that the gay rumors have since subsided. As of now the ruminitions of Jeff Gordon amongst his detractors are that he is a favorite child of NASCAR and is immune to any form of punishment. If you want to be truly honest in the article, then please acknowledge that the gay rumors are circa late 1990's, early 2000's, but no longer hold any value within the community that once debated Jeff Gordon's sexuality. You want to be accurate? Then realize that history is fluid and that your agenda may sometimes be compromised by the fickle opinions of the public. I have no agenda with respect to homosexuality. I say detractors because the rumors that were spread with respect to his sexuality were meant to degrade and insult him by people who dislike him. This is well documented. However, Jeff Gordon has handled himself with class with respect to the rumors, I hope that people can treat him with the same sort of class. This is no longer an edit war. This is a war to keep to the standards of wikipedia.

It's clear that gay people want Jeff Gordon to be gay, and people that hate Jeff Gordon want him to be gay (for different reasons). And it's true that Gordon's car colors (rainbowy) are sort of 'gay-vague.' But there's nothing to substantiate that he is gay, and unless he's caught in a gay bar kissing another man on tape, then there's really no documentation at all, and thus no need for these kind of rumors. This is completely different from Anderson Cooper who HAS been photographed in a gay bar with an alleged gay lover.68.211.77.10 08:21, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Folks, here's what started it all:

"...When Gordon revealed a relationship with future ex-wife and Miss Winston Brooke Sealey, Earnhardt joked, "Whew, I'm glad to see you've got a girlfriend. Some of us were beginning to wonder if you liked girls," unintentionally beginning a rumor about Gordon's sexuality..."4.247.155.142 02:42, 23 August 2007 (UTC)Deej

Link: http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/sptimes/access/1262214011.html?dids=1262214011:1262214011&FMT=FT&FMTS=ABS:FT&date=Apr+29%2C+2007&author=BRANT+JAMES&pub=St.+Petersburg+Times&edition=&startpage=3.C&desc=IN+GORDON%2C+EARNHARDT+SAW+A+STAR+AND+DOLLARS

If you ask me, some attention deprived Gordon-hater decided to say that Jeff was gay all because of the rainbow colors on his car, and some gossipy person listened and told someone else, who told someone else, and so forth until it spread like some kind of disease. And the originator of the rumor is now reading this discussion page with a smirk on his face as he sees how long the section for this ill-educated assumption. And the worst thing is, we are so nosy and meddlesome that this kind of stuff happens all the time to famous people who have a hard enough time shaking off the cameras that are always in their face. And we, I hope we have something better to do than care about the lives of these people. Like, maybe, pay more attention to our own lives, for once? But no, I should just extinguish my hopes, for our society has already wrapped around this barbarism too badly. And to think, some kids think this is a reliable source for information. Sadly wondering what has and will become of the world: ---Anonimous Contributor

POV problems
1) The description of criticism of Gordon needs to accurately reflect the views of those who are crtical of him rather than what his fans say about his critics. The word "villification" itself is POV and should not be on the page.

2) The claim that is widely considered the best active driver has no place on the page. The strongest thing that can be said he is that he is among the best drivers.

3) The claim that he was a child prodegy is not supported on the page. Neither is the claim that he started racing at the age of four.

4) The result section for the 2004-2006 seasons are (or were) full of POV stuff. The old wording of the 2004 season rather than giving the facts presents an excuse for why he should have won the cup even though he didn't. The 2005 result is even worse. He didn't make the cut because he had a bad season. Trying to blame everything that went wrong in the season on the crash that finished him off is POV. The paragraph wording is even worse in that its clearly been added to several times to obscure the important facts. The important fact of the 2006 season is that he is/was in 9th as far as points. Trying to use individual race results to somehow hide or offset that he is in 9th is also POV.

Since attempts to correct the content of the page have been reverted without comment, its expected that those responsible will either explain why the current content is acceptable by Wikipedia standards or make the necessary changes themselves.


 * I stand by "vilification" as a perfectly acceptable (and better) term, because you can't honestly say Gordon is unpopular. He is very popular.  And as many people that love him, hate him and "vilify" him, smearing him with insults, booing him, etc.  That's not POV, that's fact.  I'm reverting unless you can prove me wrong.  I'd be okay with a better word if you can find one, but to imply that Gordon is "unpopular" is just untrue. --Iamvered 08:04, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Who is Howard
The article refers to a potential dispute between Schneider (the maiden name of Gordon) and Howard which could potentially lead to violence. Howard is not otherwise identified in the article nor is a reason given for the dispute. As someone who has very little knowledge of NASCAR, I can't fix the problem. I would be grateful if a knowledgeable person can fix the problem.

Capitalistroadster 07:21, 22 Aug 2004 (UTC)

All of the vandalism which discusses this has been deleted. RickK 07:23, Aug 22, 2004 (UTC)

Born-Again Christian?
On what site or source is it stated that Jeff is a Born-Again Christian? Can it be stated in the article?Chaz 23:06, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Update: Yes, it can be verfied on Jeff Gordon's Website.

It doesn't say that he is a Born-Again Christian. It just says that he "Welcomed God into his life a few years ago." Chaz 00:18, 28 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I have heard him talk about it with Darrel Waltrip, and have heard Darrel mention it other times as well. It's been a while since he's been really vocal about it, but I remember him talking about his passion for Jesus and what changed in his life when he became a Christian.

Around 2001, he talked about his faith in a commercial for some form of book. Modor 06:08, 5 June 2006 (UTC)Modor

"Popularity, lack thereof" in heading
A few weeks ago, lack thereof was removed from the heading by an anonymous IP. It was readded today by Iamvered with the edit summary "remove fan bowdlerization". Now, while I do agree with him on including the gay rumors, I almost find this summary insulting because I was strongly considering removing it too. It sounds POV in the way that the article is against Gordon and is also illogical considering the paragraph before it ends with a sentence stating he finishes second in the Most Popular Driver contest every year!

If he were an unpopular driver, I would think he would be a figure along the lines of Barry Bonds and Terrell Owens, but Gordon is certainly not anywhere near that (and the only driver who is near that in NASCAR is Kurt Busch). Saying he has a lack of popularity because fans of other drivers boo him since he's won four championships is ridiculous, in my opinion. The New York Yankees are often cheered against by fans of other teams since they've won the World Series so many times, but would you call them unpopular? That's why I think this should be removed. Dom Rem | Yeah? 17:41, 29 April 2006 (UTC)


 * One only need look at the edit history of this very article on Wikipedia to see that Jeff Gordon is both a very popular driver, and a very unpopular driver. It seems that almost as many people love him as hate him.  Personally, I have no opinion on him whatsoever; I don't even follow NASCAR.  I'm just trying to make Wikipedia's content about him fair, unbiased and complete. The reason I referred to the "fan bowdlerization" is because the reversions I made not only changed the heading of this section, but also restituted content that was taken out about the whole "gay rumors" thing at the same time (Revision as of 14:58, April 5, 2006 by 69.160.77.209) As far as the heading goes, maybe "Popularity, vilification and personal life" would be better.  Edit as you see fit, I just have a problem with calling someone whose public perception is so deeply divided unilaterally "popular."  Iamvered 18:23, 29 April 2006 (UTC)


 * OK, I take back what I said about being offended by that summary; it was my fault for jumping the gun and not bothering to look over the entire edit. I just felt that there could be a better term than "lack thereof" as it almost sounds like Popularity (or lack thereof), rather than the fact people are wildly divided in their opinions about him. And now that you mention it, you are right in that "Popularity" alone would likely be just as bad, if not worse.


 * I also agree that vilification would probably be better (and less confusing). For now, I'll replace what's currently there with it. Thanks for clearing this up! Dom Rem  | Yeah? 22:57, 29 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Glad it worked out! Civility rules!  Thanks! Iamvered 22:59, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Suggestion
I was wondering if it would be possible if someone could get the facts that Jeff's favorite color is red, his favorite animal is the cheetah, and that his favorite street car is the Ferrari Spider in the article? I found this info in a book and I thought I might put it in this article somehow but I don't know how, nor do I know how to add stuff in an article. Also if someone knows his favorite foods I would appreciate it if someone would put that in also. Thanks.

Once again,

Anonymous Contributor


 * Maybe you should be looking at Tiger Beat instead of Wikipedia. That's the place for that kind of info.  Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a fan site.  It should contain relevant, factual information. --Iamvered 08:06, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

one of the reasons he is unpopular
"In years past, the circuit was nothing but gritty, slimy, bar-fighting guys who lived in the back of a pickup, drank their breakfast and once they got on the track, just wanted to bang into each other." - Jeff Gordon's stepfather John Bickford

Contrary to whats on the page, he is unpopular because he is seen as a rich prettyboy yuppie who owes his career to his stepfather's money. His unpopularity isn't regional, its based on social status. People hate him for the same reason they hate their bosses spoiled kids and their boss. Bickford's well-known hate for white trash has rubbed off on Gordon.

What makes people mad? He makes excuses for himself (Go read the parts of the page that deal with the last three seasons). He comes across as a wuss and a coward. And NASCAR plays up the class differences in its audience as a way of promoting the sport. Nothing generates interest like an equally divided audience each with its own hero and villian. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.163.100.6 (talk • contribs)

Acctually he is very popular it just does not show at the track. The reason it seems this way is because Dale Jr. fans are much more rowdier and louder than Jeff Gordon fans, like me. --69.1.20.100 01:32, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Can't the same argument be made for Dale Jr? Gop 24fan

I think these arguments reflect badly on the crowd, not on Jeff Gordon. Oh, so he's not slimy, grimy, bar-fightin' ugly. Since he's a pretty-boy with a rainbow-colored car, even if he's not 'gay' he's definitely 'metrosexual.' Makes small-minded bigots angry.

That's the truth, and everyone knows it, but no one dare say it on TV or in the newspaper.68.211.77.10 08:08, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Age Five
Be advised it notes in his book that he began racing at the age of five. This is also validated at racingone.com. The preceding unsigned message was left by User:Killakane24.


 * I cited the website. It is important to cite references, so please cite in the future. The trivia section needs citation too. If you would list the name, author, ISBN #, etc. for the book I would take care of doing the citing for you! Royalbroil 14:41, 18 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Cool, thanks for that. I'm new at this (just joined today).--Killakane24 18:57, 18 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your contributions. We can always use help at WikiProject NASCAR if you're interested. Royalbroil 19:06, 18 May 2006 (UTC)


 * The source curently listed isn't good enough. Any claim that he raced at five is going to have to source to something that says *what* kind of racing he was doing at the age of five. If thats his book, fine. But the webpage cited is little more than a PR piece on Gordon which isn't a credible source. This page doesn't need more information on the subject, but some sort of reasonable source has to be found. 152.163.100.6 13:41, 20 May 2006 (UTC)


 * is his NASCAR.com bio GOOD enough for you?--Killakane24 02:57, 21 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I found it interesting that User:152.163.100.6 is a well-known vandal and sock puppet according to the user page. All comments should taken in that light. The sources seem good enough to me. STOP BEING DISRUPTIVE. Royalbroil 04:09, 21 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Ok Sir. First, before you start making accusations like that you might want to check your facts. The IP address in question is a pool address of a certain well-known service provider. That means that it gets randomly assigned and the user of that address is usually not the same person.


 * After that, go refresh yourself on Wikipedia policy as per personal attacks on discussion boards. In your case, that includes false accusations and name-calling. In your case, its even worse in that you are making those accusations in an attempt to prevent discussion of POV and source problems with this page.


 * On the main subject, nobody has presented a credible source that describes Jeff Gordon as racing at the age of five. Fansites for Jeff Gordon and the bio at the NASCAR website are not credible sources per Wikipedia. Again, if the claim about racing at the age of five is going to be made, someone is going to have to find a source that says where and what racing he did at the age of five. 152.163.100.6 07:06, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Well since i believe NASCAR.com bio is a credible source, im just going to go ahead and put it back on there. --Killakane24 04:41, 16 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Definitely add it. An administrator may be needed to come and resolve this problem. How anyone can dispute nascar.com as a credible source is beyond me. Royalbroil 04:55, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Chicagoland Controversy
Does the recent controversy surrounding his recent win at Chicago really belong? I know we're all fired up about that, but it probably won't be that memorable a few years down the line. -- D -Day I'm all ears How can I improve? 22:16, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Might as well add his run-in with tony last year, the kenseth incident at bristol earlier this year, the rusty incident at bristol a few years back. The chicago "incident" may be newsworthy but it hardly belongs in a npov article about a race car driver. It more properly belongs in a newspaper article which I don't think Wikipedia holds itself out as. Please delete. James Brown

Why delete the bristol race if you're going to include the chicago race? You reference bristol, might as well include what happened so that readers have a npov as to the both incidents. Don't delete the bristol incident, and if you do, state your reasons why. mick jagger

Correct spelling of Jeff Gordon's full first name
...is "Jeffery," not "Jeffrey," according to the Palm Beach County (FL) official records website.

It lists numerous transactions--some including ex-wife (Jennifer) Brooke.

Just click here and enter "Gordon Jeffery" (no commas): http://oris.co.palm-beach.fl.us/or_web1/or_sch_1.asp 4.247.143.48 06:10, 17 September 2006 (UTC)Deej

Of course, proper identification is always required when negotiating these kinds of transactions.

(I deleted the property appraiser link that I first posted in 2006; that home has been sold.)

defending jeff gordon
for those who say that jeff gordons a fag or homosexual, you need to lay off. I dont see gordon fans calling junior fans cry babies for throwing beer bottles and other stuff down on the track, you earnhardt fans need to GROW UP!!!!!!!!!!

Gordon actually has a wife, unlike Earnhardt, whos with his mama all the time —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Northwest lions (talk • contribs) 04:00, 7 January 2007 (UTC).


 * Look, people just hate Gordon. Its personal. Jeff Gordon reminds too many people of their bosses spoiled wuss of a son. The other reason people hate him is that his daddy hates NASCAR and most of them. To quote "Mister" Bickford: "In years past, the circuit was nothing but gritty, slimy, bar-fighting guys who lived in the back of a pickup, drank their breakfast and once they got on the track, just wanted to bang into each other." What Bickford wants is a new NASCAR where people who don't make enough money are kept behind barbed wire while he and his freinds enjoy a spa experience in pink slik robes at the track where they can watch "bad drivers" bang into poor Jeff's front bumper. People just hate Yuppy scum and there is nobody in NASCAR than comes closer to it than Gordon and his father.


 * Another reason people hate Gordon is because he whines and makes excuses every time something doesn't go his way. Gordon never bumps anyone. Bad redneck drivers just get in the way of his front bumper. He is also the kind of guy whose idea of picking a fight would be throwing a punch from behind and then running away. Its not an Earnhardt thing anymore or a southern thing. Its more a rich vs. not rich thing now. To many people, he represents all the changes to NASCAR that they hate. i mean its not like he is a top driver anymore. He has fallen behind Johnson even on his own team and its been years since he really contended. But people still hate him.


 * And even if Gordon has a wife, its his Dad that wears the pants in the family. The price of being the bosses' son is that you live your whole life under daddy's thumb. You can take it out on other people, but at the end of the day you do what your told and you know in your gut what you are. 63.3.5.129 02:31, 19 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Wow! bigger lies were never spoken...let's take a look at a few of the ridiculous things you said....
 * First of all, Jeff Gordon is not his dad, and I doubt he actually said that quote, why don't you cite your sources? Even if he did, Jeff Gordon himself has never said anything to badmouth other drivers or say that he is better as a person than them, that's ridiculous, since when did courtesy become something to hate? Personally I've always considered courtesy to be a good thing, you're the one who is the little bitch if you want a driver that's an asshole to everyone all the time. "Be my fan and hate jeff gordon or else" "yes driver whatever you say." Also, just because you say Jeff Gordon's idea of picking a fight is throwing a punch from behind and running away, doesn't make it true. Luckily, Gordon keeps his temper in check most of the time, but as I recall a certain incident with Kenseth last season, he walked right up to him and gave him a good shove and people had to pull him back so he wouldn't continue to advance. So try again smart guy. Secondly, I don't hate Jr., but I will say this. THE ONLY REASON HE IS THE MOST POPULAR DRIVER IN NASCAR IS BECAUSE OF HIS DAD. Time to face that facts Jr. fans, Jr.'s record isn't anywhere close to that of Jeff Gordon or Tony Stewarts, or even Jimmie Johnson's, he's never even won a championship, yet he's more popular than a guy that's won four championships, yeah, I'm sure his popularity has nothing to do with his dad. Anyways, moving on. How can you say he's not a top driver anymore? Not competitive? Yeah, making it into the chase and finishing 6th last season isn't a top driver? What is your idea of a top driver then? Let's compare Gordon's record from last year to Jr.'s, Gordon's W's: 2 / Jr.'s W's: 1 // Gordon's Top 5's: 14 / Jr's Top 5's: 10 // Gordon's Top 10's: 18 / Jr.'s Top 10's: 17 // Gordon's Poles: 2 / Jr.'s Poles: 0. So I guess if Gordon's not a top driver anymore, then Jr. definately isn't a top driver anymore. Do you agree with that statement? If not then you are either a hipocrite or a liar. Pick your poison. It's been YEARS since he's contended? Once again I'll point out the 6th place finish last year, and only 2 years ago he finished 3rd, a mere 16 points behind the leader. It came down to the last race of the season if I recall correctly. But yeah, he definately wasn't contending for the title then huh? Also your rich vs. not rich thing....here's a news flash for ya, just in case you missed it. ALL THE NEXTEL CUP DRIVERS ARE RICH!!! Hello, have you seen how much they make just in race earnings? They earn more in a couple races then most people do the whole year. Not to mention all the money from royalties. So it doesn't matter what athlete you support, they are rich. So no, its not a rich vs. not rich thing. If you want to be bitter because he was successful at such a young age and because he was able to bring in loads of new spectators to the sport, then that's your problem. But change and adaptation is always going to happen within organizations if they want to stay alive. Can you imagine if NASCAR had made absolutely no changes in it's policies since the day of it's inception? It wouldn't have grown to what it is today. Change is needed to survive, it's true in life and it's true in NASCAR, if you haven't figured that out yet, than your either very young or very ignorant. I'd like to see if you can defend what you are saying in an intelligent manner, but I doubt I'll hear from you again, because your type runs away from logical arguments. I understand it's hard to win a logical argument with complete nonsense, so please stop spreading your bullshit. War wizard90 15:03, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Though I have a different username ( I cant remember my password and I visit my sisters house only once every two months) Im gonna tell ya you don't want to doubt me. With what you said, I basically agree with, Gordon is a bit spoiled from his dad, and the only reason Earnhardt Jr's popular is because of his dad. Ill give you that, but for the attitude part where he goes after Kenseth, DO NOT TELL ME YOU HAVE NEVER SEEN TONY STEWART, KEVIN HARVICK, OR JIMMY SPENCER GO JUST AS INSANE. That incident at Bristol happens with just about everyone these days. Did I not see Ward Burton chuck a race helmet only a few years ago. But my point with that is, are you telling me that nobody likes Stewart, Harvick or Spencer either, ( I don't like those three just so you know) As for the whining part, yeah i do agree, Gordon does sort of bitch about any thing that doesn't goes his way. But what my main point was though I kindof specified it wrong going after only one driver, was that you don't chuck shit out on the race trak just because the driver you don't like doesn't win, thats like what a driver said in an issue of Nascar Illustrated chucking popcorn at the movie screen because you get a bad ending or to what I would like to say... well I dont anything but anyways to end this off, whoever posted the in between "Part Nonsence but some truth" is the little Bitch and not me, I dont run away like a little Umjik ( Thats the turkish word for it with incorrect spelling) I fight my batttles until im the last one standing. Besides if you dont like Gordon what the hell are you even doin here. Yeah and Im 16, Im more intellegent than you think I am.

For the people who think he whines look at Jr. He wanted 50% ownership of DEI and left because his "mommy wouldn't let him have his toy." Plus gordon may have whined earlier in his career but he's grown up and just brushes it off.--69.1.20.100 00:46, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

I haven't ever heard of any NASCAR driver that has never whined or complained about something if they didn't finish well in a race or got wrecked. Fact is, adrenaline can make anybody act contrary to how he/she would normally act. So, all you ABG (Anybody But Gordon) fans need to remember that the drivers you like are human beings as well, and are just as prone to whine or lose their temper as Jeff Gordon is. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.69.214.104 (talk) 23:31, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Main Picture
A picture of a fan with a cardboard standie of Jeff Gordon is the best you can do? Please. How 'bout a real picture.

Is it just me or shouldn't the main picture in the infobox be a picture of Jeff Gordon and not a picture of his car? This article is about Gordon, not about the number 24 DuPont Chevy Monte Carlo. War wizard90 15:05, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

I found a picture of Jeff here: http://ll.scenedaily.com/drivers/jeff_gordon.jpg Since I don't know how to, I'm leaving the URL here instead of doing it myself. There's also a picture of his car here, if anyone wants to post it: http://www.speedtv.com/_assets/library/img/large/96086_jeff.gordon.duel.jpg Anonymous Contributor

The main picture needs to be changed from the current of a cardboard cutout with a goofy looking fan.

ARossetti 13:09, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

hahahahha, that dude does look real goofy.

i really love the current picture

A few comments
All right, here goes:
 * First of all the assertion on the main page that Gordon may be the most popular driver is false. Earnhardt Jr. wins that award every year. It needs to be removed as POV.
 * This is not a forum for discussion on whether or not Gordon is liked or disliked. It is not a forum to discuss whether or not he is gay. This is not the place for that. This discussion page is here to allow users to provide ideas to make the article better. Edit warring back and forth over these subjects is pointless. If you cannot contribute to the article constructively with a neutral point of view, you should not be here.
 * The main picture needs to be changed. A cadboard cutout with a fan standing next to it is completely ludicrous. It would be better off with nothing than this picture. -- Cyrus Andiron   t/c 12:46, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

2007 Information
As this is an encyclopedia I don't believe that under the current year as it is written now that there should be a synopsis every week of the weeks race. Only things that are of important events should be listed ie. milestons, wins, poles etc. What does everyone think?


 * I agree. I just trimmed it down but i believe it still has some sort of reference to every race. But since he has been off to a great start this year, and because of his performance in the new COT, I kind of had a hard time removing some content from the section. Caster23 21:08, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

"Modern-era" Record
To all, I think its WRONG to ascribe a 'modern-era' record of 84 wins to Darrell Waltrip. Mind you, the main difference is that pre-1972, NASCAR ran 41-56 races/season. Yet stop and do the numbers: if we divide Richard Petty's pre-1972 victories (140) by 56 and times by 33 (today's races are 36, but in the 1980's/1990's it was about 30), that's still 82 victories. Then add the 60 'modern era' victories and you get 142 victories for Petty. Not only that, since the number for the early years was often about 49 and as low as 41, a better comparison would be 140 divided by 49 and timed by 33, to get '94' victories...then add 60, and you get 154--twice as many as Gordon. The bottom line: even accounting for differences of schedule, Richard Petty's victory count is still more than 50% better than anyone else's (David Pearson's '105' would be reduced to 80-something), given the same formula. Not to mention Petty raced against Pearson (2nd best unadjusted and among the top five ever, adjusted totals), so he had stiff competition.68.211.77.10 08:15, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

The reason it is ascribed as "Modern-era" Record is because NASCAR ascribes it this way. If the sanctioning body i.e. NASCAR uses this terminology and accounts data this way then we should follow suit.Jhighfield 00:38, 5 May 2007 (UTC)


 * What also needs to be considered is that a lot of pre-1972 races were very short(200 miles), making it easier to win from the pole, as well as making the better races more dominant. In other words, it was similar to formula 1. In modern NASCAR it's much more competitive. User:WallyRankin 2:23, 10 June 2007

Please enjoy your fan-cruft
I'm done trying to be encyclopedic in this article. For all you Gordon fans out there who don't care about recognizing basic facts about the driver's life, you win. This is now one of the most slanted, fan-crufty articles in all of Wikipedia. Congratulations.

Evidently one of the rules of Wikipedia needs to be that you can't recognize that controversy exists about a person. The gay rumors are clearly such a part of Jeff Gordon's persona that they have sparked this much discussion about them in our little forum. And yet the fan-base of Mr. Gordon, and the homo-haters out there don't see that it's fit to include THAT THE RUMORS EXIST TO THE POINT THAT HE HAS ADDRESSED THEM HIMSELF IN HIS OWN AUTOBIOGRAPHY to be relevant to the man's life.

I will no longer try to press this point. But know that you have indeed done a disservice to anyone trying to get a true, complete, accurate and ENCYCLOPEDIC account of this very important figure's life.

For the record, I don't give a damn whether he's gay or not. I have never once made any attempt to say "Jeff Gordon is gay" or "Jeff Gordon is not gay." All I have said is that there is enough debate about whether Jeff Gordon might be gay that he has himself addressed them, they have been on numerous talk shows and, if you look at the ongoing vandalism of this page from those who don't seem to appreciate Mr. Gordon, you will find that it is his sexuality that seems to most often be the target of their scorn.

But never mind. It's not important. 69.247.134.2 08:17, 1 May 2007 (UTC) (Iamvered)

I just wanted to point out that the Jeff Foxworthy joke about Jeff Gordon enunciating is over 10 years old. The way the article shows now it makes it look like Jeff Foxworthy just came up with that joke in 2007, when in fact it was on one of his cds that also covered the 1996 Atlanta Olympic games.

I don't believe David Pearson, Richard Petty or Dale Sr. would have the wins they have now if they had to race thru all the competition Jeff Gordon has had too. When he first started there was Dale Sr., Darrell Waltrip, Bobby and Terry Labonte, Dale Jarrett, Mark Martin and a few more. Now he has competition such as Tony Stewart, Jr., Johnson, Kenseth, Harvick, Burton, Kahne, Newman, Kurt Busch and the newcomers Kyle Busch and Hamlin. Richard Petty only really had Cal Yarborough and David Pearson. Plus they drove so many more races. Sr. had some pretty good company but Jeff has already passed him. I think it is always going to be hard to compare the drivers but Gordon better make everyone's top 4.

ah I was going to say it's atleast as old as the first Blue Collar Comedy Tour, were he said the exact same thing.

Semi-protected until 29 June; hopefully this will quell some schoolkid vandalism
I have semi-protected the main article until 29 June 2007, for the following reasons:


 * this article gets vandalized more than any other article I watch closely &mdash; several times a day when unprotected
 * that vandalism comes almost entirely from unregistered users on IPs issued to school districts in the rural Midwestern and Southern US
 * thanks to summer holidays, those school IPs will be mostly quiet when the protection expires

Our policy on biographies of living persons also comes into play here.

This semi-protection is mostly experimental, but please discuss any change in protection with me first. Thanks! - jredmond 19:28, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Meeting his current wife
In the section about how he met his current wife, Ingrid Vandebosch, it states they met on the set of Taxi. In fact, they did not. According to an article at Nascar.com, Gordon is quoted as saying, "We didn't meet on the set of the movie Taxi as I read somewhere".

http://www.nascar.com/2006/news/headlines/cup/07/13/jgordon.engagement/index.html

ALso, if you click on the footnote link for that fact, it even states there that they knew each other before Taxi.

Kbnha goddess 07:29, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

76.178.68.210
Jeff Gordon has 81 career wins it states on www.nascar.com that Johnson failed inspection at Vegas and that Gordon won the race. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.178.68.210 (talk) 23:41, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
 * No it doesnt. And until you can go back in time and change that fact, STOP vandalizing pages. Caster23  talk  contribs 23:57, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

The meeting of Brooke Sealey
He could have not met her in victory lane of a Busch Series race, because he hasn't won one. Plus, she was a Miss Winston, so I assume it was after a Winston Cup win, his Co-cola 600 win maybe? Either way, something isn't right. —Preceding unsigned comment added by TextileWolf (talk • contribs) 19:34, 14 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Gordon has won 5 Busch Series races. He completed all the races in the 1992 Busch Series Season (the year they met), winning three of those: it could be that he met her after one of those wins. Also, Gordon only competed in one race of the 1992 Winston Cup season. Caster23  talk  contribs 20:33, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Im pretty Sure he met Brooke when he won the Gatorade 125 at Daytona back in 1993, but that doesn't sound right either. Im just throwing that out there. Oh and by the way, even though the two were married by the time, Gordon did when the Busch series finale at Homestead in 2000. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.207.193.77 (talk) 23:55, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

In his book "Daytona: from the Birth of Speed to the Death of the Man in Black," Ed Hinton describes the first meeting between Jeff Gordon and Brooke Sealey as occuring in victory lane of Gordon's Gatorade 125 mile qualifying race victory in 1993. This was Gordon's rookie year and first full season competing in the Winston Cup series. Also in the book, Hinton describes in detail that due to an "unwritten rule" that drivers were not to socialize with the various "Miss Winston" girls, Gordon and Sealey had to hide their relationship from the media and from the rest of the drivers/owners/administration of NASCAR. It was at the NASCAR awards banquet in 1993, after Brooke Sealey's contract as Miss Winston had expired, that they finally appeared together in public, thus announcing their relationship to the outside world. For reference's sake, the ISBN number for the book is: ISBN: 0446611786. --Kp.murphy (talk) 17:36, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Heterosexuality
I'm not a vandal unlike these types of edits but the gay rumors definitely need to be mentioned just as they are Ryan Seacrest if only to dispel them, considering he's stated several times he's not gay. Cheechie Chung 00:40, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
 * There are whole sections about this topic above. "considering he's stated several times he's not gay." Source?  Caster23  talk  contribs 00:46, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, citing a non-online source will probably not be supported, but it is stated here that "In his memoir, "Jeff Gordon: Racing Back to the Front", the driver actually addresses the rumor, which he denies. Part of the rumor was fueled by a comment by Dale Earnhardt, Sr. intended as a joke. At the time Gordon had been dating Miss Winston, Brooke Sealy, but because Sealey worked for Winston the couple was required to keep the relationship a secret." etc. Cheechie Chung 00:53, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
 * That link you gave is one of many sites that actually use content from Wikipedia. So what you read on there was actually once on this page, but was removed for some reason. I know the part about how the rumor came about is mentioned on the talk page, but there is nothing about it in the main article. Maybe re-instating what was once on the main article page (the quote you mentioned right above) might be a good idea. But I'm not sure. This has always been a touchy subject. Caster23  talk  contribs 01:04, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I'm not very good with this stuff so I didn't know. I was looking for a "verifiable" source that cited the source in question. But yeah, I'm not a Gordon basher, I just know how prevalent Wikipedia is (it's second only to Jeffgordon.com on google...) and decided to come here when I heard someone talking about the latest win and how he was surprised that there was a gay NASCAR driver and a good one at that. Sources like this should address crap that gets so widespread and isn't true although to the editors credit it doesn't go "LOL FLAMING HOMO" either. Cheechie Chung 01:26, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Milestone Data
Jeff Gordon's page shouldn't be used just for milestones. It should be used for bad performances as well. If you don't add his bad times it makes it look like he has never made a mistake in NASCAR which everyone should know isn't true. Right now the page makes him look like the greatest driver ever which obviously he is a close 2nd behind Richard Petty.(Planecrash111 (talk) 21:47, 7 June 2008 (UTC))

I would agree with you, even though we do live in a time where nobody cares about the bad times. And Id disagree to put him in 2nd. But I would agree that he does belong with a handfull of drivers like petty, or earnhardt, or pearson for that matter. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.207.193.77 (talk) 20:22, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Vote
I have a vote up here to keep the current info in the 2008 section up. Vote yes for yes and no if you don't want the info and make sure you sign with the four tildes so i can tally the votes.(Planecrash111 (talk) 06:39, 8 June 2008 (UTC))

No For reason that have already been stated on here. If we give a race by race recap of every race the page will be to long and unreadable. Mile stone data such as polls wins bad crashes, making the chase etc. are what need to be written about, all the other data can be found in simple tables which keeps the page much cleaner and easier to read. --Vertigo315 (talk) 13:42, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

You are the one that suggested the vote.(Planecrash111 (talk) 14:34, 8 June 2008 (UTC))


 * No per Vertigo. This is an encyclopedia article, not a fanpage. --D-Day (talk) 15:31, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Agreed being that Vertigo315 is a Jeff Gordon fan.(Planecrash111 (talk) 20:20, 8 June 2008 (UTC))


 * That's quite enough of the sniping. Please keep the focus on the edits and not the editor. Bad things happen to folk who cannot play nicely. - Arcayne   (cast a spell)  03:55, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

I think its simple: Just keep a short sweet summary of his 2008 season, and include any future events that may be important for the section —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.207.193.77 (talk) 20:17, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

 NO that info really isn't needed. First of all, its taking up much of the page with info thats not important. Second, the 2008 stats of "Wins, Top 5s, Top 10s, DNFs and money is already mentioned in the career stats below this chart. I would say that contains all the important 2008 stats. I don't think we need a another chart of all the 2008 finshes. --DJS24 22:41, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
 * NOTE Maybe somebody can answer me on this, but why do we also have another chart "NASCAR Nextel Series Results" []? I think that either needs to be finshed or removed. There is way too many charts with the same information on the page. Any thoughts? --DJS24 22:48, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Better driver than Dale?
Isn't that why all the rednecks hate him.TCO (talk) 23:51, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Winston Cup Series champion
Jeff Gordon has never won a "Sprint Cup" Series championship. Under his achievements it says he has won the Sprint Cup championship four times, which is false. He's won the Winston Cup Series Championship four times.

DJFan99 (talk) 18:28, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

ya like i know, its causing alot of phsycological harm to my health. I cant stand it when people say he was the sprint cup champion, when back then it was the Winston Cup. Ya i totally agree with you. Plus i dont like the new playoff system. Yeah, it makes the championship battle more interesting, but its stupid how a driver can have a 300 + point lead going into race 26, and then be trailing the points after the race is alldone. Yeah, that happened to Gordon in 2007, and Gordon would of also won the title in 2004 if it wasn't for the chase. However im glad it was in place in 2008, because id rather see anybody win the title but Kyle Busch, that guy makes me not want to breathe he wrecked junior, ewww. WOW! I LIKE HOW I TOTALLY CHANGED THE SUBJECT! GIGGITY! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.207.193.77 (talk) 21:27, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

I realize the stupidity behind the statistic itself, and I feel that one should differentiate between Winston/Nextel/Sprint Cup Championships. However, by purchasing the rights to sponsor the championship itself for the next decade, NEXTEL/Sprint also purchase the rights to retroactively title past champions as "Sprint Cup Champions." This is how NASCAR/Sprint have agreed to refer to past champions, therefore the argument is over. Each governing body decides how to title such entities. I would cite the Super Bowl as an example. Super Bowl III was the first to officially bear the title "Super Bowl" as a championship game, but the NFL still chooses to refer to the first 2 AFL/NFL championship games as "Super Bowls." Whether we agree with this practice or not is immaterial. NASCAR refers to past champions (before 2004) this way, so Wikipedia shall as well. Now, if you want to include a parenthetical which explains that the title was then called "Winston Cup," I have no problem with that.--Kp.murphy (talk) 17:50, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Agreed. I always use the title of what the series was called back then. Seems more proper to me (not a Gordon fan, but just thought I'd comment). --raganbaby_6 00:48, 18 November 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Raganbaby 6 (talk • contribs)

Fall dover race
jeff got a top 10, not a top 5 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bsebll552 (talk • contribs) 19:15, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Artical clean up
Some major condencing on his recent years is needed as well as cleaning up the divided sentances that have madethe artical look poor jeff gordon is gay --Cmedinger (talk) 22:32, 31 October 2008 (UTC)i love jeff

article needs cleanup
The article is just way too long. The long sections detailing 2007 and 2008 need to be reduced to a summary of what he did in those seasons.

There is also way too much "Jeff Gordon would have won but...." stuff in the article. He either won or he didn't. There are just way too many long excuse sections in the article.

66.226.193.82 (talk) 17:05, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Heff Hordan —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.202.240.115 (talk) 18:57, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Statistics Are Wrong
Because of the locked status of this page, some of the statistics listed under his photo are inaccurate. Specifically, the number of Top 10 finishes and Poles are incorrect. Somebody please change these numbers to 342 Top 10's and 67 Poles. Jeff Gordon's Bio at Foxsports.com--Kp.murphy (talk) 17:19, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I just double checked the MSN/FoxSports stats, and they look correct to me (see also Jeff's page on Nascar.com. I will change the stats on this page to match those on MSN/FoxSports. Edhubbard (talk) 19:25, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

2009 Stat typo
Just wanted to point out, under the current 2009 info section in the text, not in the stat box, it says Jeff finished 4th in the Southern 500, this is incorrect. He finished 5th. The stat box is correct http://www.nascar.com/races/cup/2009/11/data/results_official.html

Nothing that important, just thought I would point it out.

Machu04 (talk) 01:46, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Do you believe this article contains to much STATS tables?
It makes the article incredibly length. Referencing statistical sites I find okay, but someone researching him or something doesn't want to see his 2008 per race records?

Well maybe...but if he wanted that in the first place he wouldn't be coming to wikipedia. I think an overall summary would be better.
 * I agree. I think the current year table is useful and informative, and the overall career info is good, but having the race-by-race table of previous years is probably far more detail than is warranted for an encyclopedia. Edhubbard (talk) 23:23, 25 May 2009 (UTC)


 * It seems a very long-winded way of listing stats - surely it could be rearranged so that more or less the same information is displayed in a more concise way. It's managed very well with F1 drivers, with some articles showing stats for 10+ years in a relatively small space. Bretonbanquet (talk) 23:31, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, I think that was what someone was trying to do with this section Jeff_Gordon, but they seem to have tired out after 1997. If other people think this is a good way of presenting career stats, it might be worth trying to edit this up... one thing that might complicate things a little is the change from 32 races to 36, and the introduction of the Chase format, but this should be something that can be addressed with a little planning.  Perhaps this is also something to discuss on the Nascar Project page.  Edhubbard (talk) 23:43, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Jeff Gordon Stats
(posted on Zaxby's talk page too). Hi Zaxby, how is it that every time you edit the Jeff Gordon page, the stats you put in are slightly, but systematically, different from the official stats? For example, today, you changed his points lead after the Southern 500 to be +31, when, according to Nascar.com, his lead is +29. Today, when the race ended because of rain, you updated the stats for the Coca-Cola 600 to read that Gordon started 2nd (he started 3rd) that he finished 13th (he finished 14th) and that his lead was +47 (it is +44). Are you using a source that is different from the Nascar.com website? If so, which one? Is the information there systematically biased? Each time I have reverted your edits, I have included links to the stats that I am changing to. Can you provide similar links for the changes you are making? Edhubbard (talk) 23:23, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Again, Zaxby has posted systematically wrong stats here and  where he has edited the page to say that Gordon finished 17th (he finished 26th), and that he is leading the points by +46 points, when in fact, he is now in second place, trailing by 46 points .  At first, I gave him the benefit of the doubt, and assumed that he was simply looking at someplace that has different stats from those posted on Nascar.com.  However, as this continues week in and week out, I am beginning to think of this more as subtle, and insidious vandalism.  I have left messages on his talk page, and here on the article talk page, none of which he has responded to.  If this continues, I'd like to ask an admin to block Zaxby for vandalism, or at the very least, to block him from editing this page and systematically attempting to introduce misinformation into wikipedia.  This sort of behavior is not acceptable, and should not be allowed to continue.  Edhubbard (talk) 01:03, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * NASCAR announced that Gordon shouldn't have been a lap down in the first place so they put him in that position. (unsigned by Zaxby)
 * Please provide a reference for this claim. I have not seen it anywhere, and the fact that Jeff started second, based on owner points is also inconsistent with the changes that you have been making.  I have provided references, you have not.  Before reverting next time, please back up your claims with references. Edhubbard (talk) 05:13, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Stewart wreck, poles, and starting position
Hi Zaxby, I've reverted your edit on the starting position, and poles at Pocono after Stewart's wreck. I can't explain all of this in the edit summary, so I'm explaining it here. Let me start with the pole, since that is simpler, and then move on to the starting positions... The reason that this doesn't add to the pole is pretty straightforward: Nascar does not count "poles" that are 1) set by owner points in the event that qualifying is rained out or 2) inherited because the pole winner has to go to to the back. We here at wikipedia follow the same rules. In this case, both of those things would count against Gordon being counted as "winning" the pole. In essence, "poles" only count if the driver won the pole in real qualifying. The reasons that this doesn't change our listing of Gordon's "starting position" are a little more complicated, and I am not even sure that I entirely agree with them myself. In essence, Nascar (and accordingly, wikipedia) keep official stats based on the "starting grid" as set prior to the race. In the event that a driver has to change and engine, or go to a back-up car, and therefore has to move to the rear of the field, the driver is still credited with the starting position that was listed in the starting grid prior to the race, even though he now has to go to the back of the field for the actual start. You will see this when the cars first line up for the parade laps. Cars will start the parade laps in the position they earned, and then drop back shortly before the green flag. As I said, this is one that I am not sure I agree with entirely myself, as Gordon *will* start the race in first place, *but*, and this is the key thing, Nascar does it this way, and we at wikipedia follow their lead on this. Edhubbard (talk) 17:57, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Film appearance
hello, just wanted to add Jeff also appeared in the final scenes of 2004 Queen latifah film Taxi. could anyone add that to the page please...ccos i dont know how to thanks david

When you leave messages, please remember to "sign" your name, by putting ~ (four tilde signs) at the end. This will add your name, and the date and time. You can also do this by clicking the 'sign' button, pictured here.

Please provide an appropriate reliable source. I did look on the internet, but couldn't find anything. I noted that the article Taxi (2004 film) also states this, but that also lacks sources. Is there something verifiable to show this fact, such as a newspaper article that mentions it? If you can find an appropriate reference, please reinstate the request.  Chzz  ►  12:31, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

here is proof that he appeared in the movie http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-j_9KmyFQ4 --Greendayfan240 (talk) 02:43, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

Pics of Jeff when 15
I am friends with Wayne Ketchum who sponsored Jeff when he was 15. If Jeff would like a copy of this pic, pls let me know Flamingo42004 (talk) 01:11, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

2010/11 sections
Read like a full-length sports commentary. That needs trimming. A lot. 81.107.154.43 (talk) 11:33, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

Results missing 04-06
What happened to 2004, 2005 and 2006 on the results chart?  Zappa  O  Mati   15:30, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Someone probably got lazy and skipped over it.-- Daytona   500  22:36, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Jeff Gordon
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Jeff Gordon's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "Racing-Reference": From 2005 Advance Auto Parts 500:  From 2002 EA Sports 500:  From 2005 Dickies 500:  From 2006 USG Sheetrock 400: </li> <li>From 2001 MBNA Cal Ripken, Jr. 400: </li> <li>From 2005 Batman Begins 400: </li> </ul>

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 14:08, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

That photograph
I suggest we remove from the article the image seen at right which shows Gordon with former wife Brooke. They divorced acrimoniously more than 10 years ago and he remarried eight years ago. If we must show a photograph of his wife, then it should be of the second one, Ingrid. It can't be comfortable for either Jeff Gordon or Brooke or Ingrid, or their families, to know that Wikipedia carries such an irrelevant out of date photo all day, every day. Even the tabloids don't do that.

WP:BLP says the following -- "...the possibility of harm to living subjects must always be considered when exercising editorial judgment. This policy applies to any living person mentioned in a BLP, whether or not that person is the subject of the article...". That includes the lady shown in this photograph. It's fine for us to accurately record their former relationship in the text, but insensitive and well OTT to include her photo but not the current wife's.

Resolution:Biographies of living people outlines the Wikimedia Foundation's core principles, and one of them is that we should take "human dignity and respect for personal privacy into account" in our BLPs, and I don't think the use of this outdated photograph complies with that principle. Moriori (talk) 02:21, 16 May 2014 (UTC)
 * There is no BLP violation here; Wikipedia is not censored because "oh, they divorced, awkward!". As for why we "include her photo but not the current wife's" if you can find a free photograph of her then feel free to include it. - The Bushranger One ping only 03:28, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

Achievements in infobox
I feel like the achievements parameter in the main infobox is getting too crowded, and should be trimmed down and placed somewhere in the prose (preferably the Career achievements section).  Zappa  24  Mati   18:04, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I agree User:ZappaOMati. See the third suggestion in the section bellow. Louieoddie (talk) 08:55, 1 August 2015 (UTC)

Jeff Gordon Early Racing Career
Jeff Gordon began racing BMX bikes at age 4. The next year he drove a quarter midget in competition for the first time. He won the national quarter-midget championship when he was 8 and 10 years old.He went on to dominate older children in go-kart racing events. When Jeff was 13, the family moved to Pittsboro, Indiana, so he could race sprint cars without a minimum age requirement for driver's.He joined the United States Auto Club when he was 16, and won their National Midget championship at 19 and the Silver Crown championship at age 20.Gordon got interested in stock cars and started driving for Hugh Connerty in NASCAR's Busch Grand National Series in 1990. In 1991, he took the Rookie of the Year title. He signed with Rick Hendrick in May of 1992. In 1993, he obtained the title of the Winston Cup Rookie of the Year.In 1995, he won his first series championship. Overall, Jeff Gordon won 4 championships and that was in only a 7-year span.Jeff Gordon will turn 44 years of age on August 4, 2015.He retires from full-time racing after the 2015 season to go on to be an analyst for Fox Sports in 2016. Maryennis 15:35, 3 August 2015 (UTC)MaryennisMaryennis 15:35, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

Possible lede for split article
This is what I've got so far. If anybody knows how to compress it further or generally make it better, please have at it.
 * Jeffrey Michael "Jeff" Gordon is an American professional stock car racing driver who, since 1992, has been driving the No. 24 Chevrolet for Hendrick Motorsports in the NASCAR Sprint Cup Series. Gordon made his Winston Cup debut in the 1992 Hooters 500, finishing 31st with a crash. In 1993, he won the Gatorade Twin 125's race, finished the season 14th in points and won the Rookie of the Year Award. Early on, Gordon's tendency to push cars too hard and crash caused many to feel that Gordon was too young to compete at this level. In 1994, he won the Busch Clash exhibition race, the Coca-Cola 600 pole and race and scored a hometown victory at the inaugural Brickyard 400. In 1995, Gordon won a total of seven races and nine poles and secured the Cup Series championship. After winning the Sprint Cup championship for the first time in 1995, Gordon went on to win it three more times in 1997, 1998 and 2001.


 * Gordon's 1996 title defense featured ten wins. He finished second to teammate Terry Labonte for the championship. In 1997, he became the youngest driver, at the time, to win the Daytona 500 and was the first driver, since Bill Elliott, to win the Winston Million. He won the Daytona 500 again in 1999 and 2005, for a total of three wins. In 1998, Gordon set a modern-era record of 13 races and won his third title. He set Cup records during the season, including four consecutive wins and 17 consecutive Top 5 finishes. Despite offers in 1999 from the owner of Chip Ganassi Racing and Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones, Gordon signed a lifetime contract with Hendrick Motorsports starting in 2000, allowing him to become an equity owner in his No. 24 team.


 * Gordon recorded his 50th career victory in 2000. Then, in 2001, he became the third driver to win four Cup championships in NASCAR history and earned Hendrick Motorsports their 100th win. Gordon won three races in 2002 and 2003 respectively. In 2004, Gordon's team recorded five wins and he finished the season third in the points standings. Gordon won his third Daytona 500 plus three more races in 2005. Gordon recorded two wins and two poles in 2006. In 2007, he won six races and seven poles, tied Darrell Waltrip's modern-day record of 59 poles, Dale Earnhardt's record for sixth all-time in overall number of Cup wins and recorded his 77th career Cup victory. Gordon finished the Chase second in the standings and finished the year with 30 top tens, setting a new modern era Cup Series record. From 2008 to 2010, Gordon struggled, recording a total of one win and six poles during the three seasons. In 2009, Gordon became the first driver in NASCAR history to pass $100 million USD in career winnings.


 * In 2011, Gordon won for the first time in 66 races, broke his tie for the third-most poles with Cale Yarborough and tied Bill Elliott for the most wins at the Pocono track. He claimed his 85th career win, third-most of all time and became the winningest driver in the modern era of the sport. In 2012, Gordon earned his 86th and 87th Cup victories, surpassed Elliott with his sixth win at the Pocono track and made his eighth Chase for the Sprint Cup. In 2013, Gordon made his 700th consecutive Cup start and marked his 300th and 301st career top-5 finishes, tying with David Pearson for third all-time. Gordon set track time and speed records for his first pole of 2013 and broke the tie with Mark Martin for most poles at Richmond among active drivers. His winning a pole in 21 consecutive seasons set a NASCAR record. Finishing one point behind Joey Logano, Gordon was knocked out of the Chase until it was found that Logano's team had collaborated with David Gilliland's team to secure Logano's position. In 2014, Gordon recorded four wins. To mark the twentieth anniversary of his 1994 Brickyard 400 win, Indianapolis mayor, Greg Ballard, declared the day "Jeff Gordon Day". Gordon's 10th place finish at Homestead marked his 454th top-ten, surpassing Mark Martin for second in all-time top tens.


 * On January 22, 2015, Gordon announced this would be his last season as a full-time driver. On January 29, Gordon stated he does not plan to run any more Daytona 500s after 2015. He started the season by winning the pole for his final Daytona 500, but crashed on the final lap, finishing 33rd.
 * Louieoddie (talk) 12:40, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

This article is very long
I've tagged this article as a very long article. We need to think of ways to shorten it.
 * I suggest that we divide the Sprint Cup Series section, along with it's 1994-2015 subsections, into an article of its own, as it is a very long section.
 * I suggest that we either eliminate the second infobox or find a way to combine it with the first one. Also, perhaps not all of the information on the first one is relevant to an infobox. It is awfully long.
 * I suggest we put a link in the infobox to the Career achievements section and move the content from the infobox to this section. There's also a section at the bottom of the page, Achievements, which could somehow be merged into the Career achievements section.
 * I also suggest we limit the amount of photographs in the article somewhat, especially where they appear in close proximity to each other, and choose the best to keep.

Please state your own suggestions for shortening this article and whether you support or oppose my ideas above. Louieoddie (talk) 08:19, 1 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Regarding the first suggestion, I think we can include the Busch Series and other racing sections as well, though he might not had spent long enough in those series to warrant moving those as well. Maybe we can call the page Sprint Cup Series career of Jeff Gordon or Racing career of Jeff Gordon if we add in the other series? We'll still have to add concise summaries of his career if we do split it.   Zappa  24  Mati   15:42, 1 August 2015 (UTC)
 * The more I think about it, I think if we do the entire racing career, that article could be pretty long as well. If we do split it, maybe we should just do his Cup career.  Zappa  24  Mati   01:17, 2 August 2015 (UTC)
 * , yes I agree the whole racing career might be a bit long for one article. Sprint Cup Series career of Jeff Gordon would work for an article on the Sprint Cup Series. As to the Achievements section, I've been looking at some of the other NASCAR Cup Series champions' articles and found that this table and it's placement are fairly standard. However, the table never has it's own section, it's just at the end of the External links section. I'll fix that here. Louieoddie (talk) 03:40, 2 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Well, assuming we do follow through with the article split, I've been trying to shorten the section at User:ZappaOMati/sandbox/2. I could use some help.  Zappa  24  Mati   04:13, 2 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Since the new page would be more detailed (more "race-by-race", for lack of a better term), some phrases from the original would probably stay behind while the others get moved, like the "Gordon's early success in the sport reshaped the paradigm and eventually gave younger drivers an opportunity to compete in NASCAR. However, during the 1993 season, many doubted Gordon's ability to compete at such a level at such a young age because of his tendency to push the cars too hard and crash. His last-place finish at the 1993 First Union 400 was a firm example of this theory.[6] Additionally, driver Darrell Waltrip wrote he told Hendrick during the 1993 season that Gordon had "hit everything but the pace car that year."[7]" portion.  Zappa  24  Mati   04:31, 2 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I looked at what you did so far and have managed to compress even further. If we separate the section into it's own article, we would need a concise summary of the whole section, to leave in this article, and another version that is compressed to about half of that, for the lede of the new article. I'm working on a possible summary for the current article, based on that section and what you were doing so far. I also like your idea of making a legacy sub-section. I hope we can continue to collaborate on this.
 * Here's what I've got so far:
 * In 1992, Gordon's stepfather, James Bickford, declined Jack Roush's offer to sign Gordon due to Roush's policy of hiring his own crew chiefs.[1] Later that year, Rick Hendrick signed Gordon to Hendrick Motorsports.[2] Gordon made his Winston Cup debut in the season-ending race, the Hooters 500 at Atlanta, finishing 31st after a crash.[3]


 * Gordon opened 1993 with a win in the Gatorade Twin 125's race,[4] and finished 14th in points and with the Rookie of the Year Award.[5] During this season, many felt that Gordon was too young to compete at such a level due to his tendency to push cars too hard and crash. His last-place finish at the 1993 First Union 400 seemed to prove this theory.[6] Driver Darrell Waltrip said that Gordon "hit everything but the pace car that year."[7]


 * In 1994, Gordon won the Busch Clash exhibition race at Daytona[8] and took fourth-place in the Daytona 500.[9] He collected his first career win at the Charlotte Motor Speedway in the Coca-Cola 600.[10] He scored a popular hometown victory at Indianapolis Motor Speedway in the inaugural Brickyard 400.[11] He finished eighth in the Winston Cup point standings for the season, just 918 points behind Earnhardt.[12]


 * Legacy
 * Gordon's early success in the sport reshaped the paradigm and eventually gave younger drivers an opportunity to compete in NASCAR.


 * He was given the nickname "Wonder Boy" by Dale Earnhardt,[13] and his crew was called the "Rainbow Warriors".[14]


 * In 1998, NASCAR named Gordon to its 50 Greatest Drivers list.[15] In 2008, ten years later, ESPN's Terry Blount ranked him 10th in his list of the 25 Greatest Drivers of All-Time.[16] Foxsports.com named him as the fifth-best NASCAR driver of all time.[17]
 * Louieoddie (talk) 12:32, 2 August 2015 (UTC)
 * The main concern I have about the Legacy section is what to add, then. I think we could move some info from the Career achievements section to it, but I don't really know.  Zappa  24  Mati   18:01, 2 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I see what you mean. Rather than having a Legacy section we could use the material in it to make a nice closing statement for the summary of his Sprint Cup Career on the current article. Alternately, we could instead use it as a thesis statement for the summary by putting it at the beginning. I think this sentence in particular would look good near the beginning of the lede for the new article:
 * Gordon's early success in the sport reshaped the paradigm and eventually gave younger drivers an opportunity to compete in NASCAR.
 * Louieoddie (talk) 00:45, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Justin, I know you have ambitions to get your driver's article up to GA status. I strongly recommend you try to cut it down and trim some of the fat away, and of course, split Jeff's career achievements into the separate article you're working on. Wikipedia suggests articles should generally not exceed 100,000 bytes. At the moment, this page is three times that amount and the 105th longest article on the entire English Wikipedia. Now of course, Jeff's results tables alone are going to add a ton of bytes; however, 300,000+ is still definitely a point where the "too long" tag is merited. Good luck with this and 2013 Mudsummer Classic! If you need any help, don't hesitate to let me know, and I'll see what I can do. --Bentvfan54321 (talk) 01:43, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Well, I just spent an hour trying to condense the article as much as possible at User:ZappaOMati/sandbox/2, and counting the bytes in comparison between it and the current one, my rewritten version is 39,251 bytes, much less, but I still feel like it could be slightly shortened a little more. Any ideas?  Zappa  24  Mati   03:57, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
 * That really is a lot shorter. I'll see if I can reduce it further later. Best if we all help each other. Louieoddie (talk) 08:34, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I've tried, and I'm pretty much done and happy with what I did. I could use some help on adding the finishing touches, though.  Zappa  24  Mati   18:05, 6 August 2015 (UTC)
 * If you need anything, you can let me know; right now, I'm trying to clean up Sam Hornish, Jr. It's incredible how overly-detailed the article is and how much unsourced fancruft those IPs have added in. Thanks, --Bentvfan54321 (talk) 18:27, 6 August 2015 (UTC)
 * The individual year sections in the back half of his career are much longer than the front half. Use that as a model for cutting out chunks of prose. The tables documenting his career can easily be broken into its own article and there is plenty of precedent for that.
 * As a condensation tip, inidividual race victories should not be highlighted without special significance. He won five races in 19XX, can reduce several sentences into one. --Falcadore (talk) 15:42, 6 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I read your latest revision of the Sprint Cup summary and it is really a lot shorter. For my part, I think we should go with that. I suggest that we wait a week to see if anyone opposes and if not we go forward with this summary and the new split article. We would need a lede for the new article. I'll start working on a lede in my sandbox, if anyone else wants to give it a shot we can all post here and compare. Louieoddie (talk) 10:22, 8 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Well, it's been over a week, and since no one's opposed, I've moved my shortened section into this article, while splitting the longer one into Sprint Cup Series career of Jeff Gordon. All I need now is to deal with the placeholder lead I added to it, and we'll be good.  Zappa  24  Mati   21:59, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
 * It looks great. That really does reduce the Jeff Gordon article a lot. I'll have to look soon for more categories to add to the bottom of the Sprint Cup Series career of Jeff Gordon article. Louieoddie (talk) 23:46, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

Correct spelling of Gordon's first name
It's J-E-F-F-E-R-Y.

Source: Hendrick Motorsports' website, via Internet Archive / Wayback Machine (scroll down for his bio.): https://web.archive.org/web/20150825082642/http://www.hendrickmotorsports.com/news/articles/51426/jeff-gordon-to-run-final-full-time-nascar-season-in-2015 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.236.123.166 (talk) 01:58, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Remember, there is always a chance that it could be spelled wrong by HMS. If you were to look through other reliable sources besides HMS, they use "Jeffrey", as seen here, here, here, and here, while the source used in the article also says "Jeffrey".   Zappa  24  Mati   02:05, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

I made this correction years ago, after Gordon's divorce, and had noted it here in the talk section. It has since been moved or purged. At the time, Gordon had owned property in Palm Beach County, FL with ex-wife Brooke, and it had not yet been sold. His name on the deed was spelled "Jeffery."

http://www.edivorcepapers.com/divorce-settlement/jeff-gordon-divorce-settlement.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.236.123.166 (talk) 02:30, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

Unfortunately, if USA Today (or one of the others) makes an error and others use it as source material, things tend to go viral. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.236.123.166 (talk) 02:21, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

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