Talk:Jefferson Literary and Debating Society/Archive 1

Neutrality
I will challenge the neutrality of this object if a user by the name of "VirginiaProp" says the Jefferson Society is the oldest continally existing literary and debating in America again. This is not true--The Philomathean Society of University of Pennsylvania (founded 1813) is the oldest "continually" existing such society. See: http://www.philomathean.org/Welcome_to_Philo%21 The oldest society (not continually existing) is the American-Whig Cliosophic Society founded at Princeton.

It is also debatable whether or not the Jefferson Society is the second-oldest Greek letter organization. The Kappa Alpha Society was also founded in 1824.

persist  —Preceding comment was added at 21:06, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

The problem with the criticism referring to the Philomathean society is that the Philomathean society (at least from its wikipedia description) is a society that specializes simply in letters while the Jefferson Society has an emphasis on debate. That's why it is correct to say that the Jefferson society is the oldest continually operating literary AND DEBATING society in the United States. Also re: Kappa Alpha, its wikipedia page states that it was founded in 1825. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thp4e (talk • contribs) 11:13, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Misc
-Should we attempt to add a list of officers over the years? There will be large gaps in some of the eras. VirginiaProp


 * Probably not -- a haphazard list of names would be disproportionately large and bloaty. If anyone people who went on to notable positions were officers -- e.g. Woodrow Wilson -- it might be worth mentioning them. --EEMeltonIV 15:38, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

-Why does the relatively unimportant (in the greater scheme of the history of the Society) sexual harassment allegations get such HUGE mention in the article? It seems to me that a passing reference is all that is required. The person responsible for the allegations filed suit against the University, but later dismissed the complaint as improvidently filed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.219.110.166 (talk) 22:33, 10 July 2007 (UTC)


 * "Unfortunately, it is also one of the most despised organizations on Grounds."

-Well, feel free to cite a source -- awww, or is someone just upset they didn't get in? :...-( —Preceding unsigned comment added by EEMeltonIV (talk • contribs)

Not sure what's more pathetic -- some lame-o taking the trouble to add a clever quip to this entry, or me taking the time to bother to fix it. Ugh, I suspect I know the answer. --EEMeltonIV 05:25, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

-A Wikipedia entry will present all facts about an entry, not just serve as a puff piece. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.188.8.246 (talk • contribs)

-Why are all references to alcohol at the meetings being deleted? As I understand it, this is one of the largest selling points the Society uses to retain membership. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.188.8.246 (talk • contribs)

That is because you understand incorrectly. No alcohol is served at any Society meeting or function. Please get your facts straight. -RC —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.84.218.44 (talk • contribs)

Served, Divinity forbid. But quaffed? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.5.145.222 (talk) 13:02, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Room 7 Resident
Regarding this entry
 * The 4th year that is selected to live in Room 7 is in charge of providing all the alcohol the society consumes before and after each meeting. The Room 7 resident must do this in exchange for the honor of living on the Lawn rent free.

Besides being shoddily edited, this entry places an incorrect emphasis on alcohol (resident provides more than just booze). Furthermore, the resident's duties extend well beyond deciding to host a party -- indeed, hosting such a shindig is a relatively minor part of what the resident does. --EEMeltonIV 21:44, 13 January 2006 (UTC) (former rm. 7 resident)

-Yes you do. Its you. All that stuff that you have deleted has been true. Stop trying to censor this page for the betterment of your society. Ok the Room 7 resident might do more than provide alcohol. So instead of just deleting that entire entry, why don't you edit it instead and tell everybody what the Room 7 resident does. Because I would be very interested in that information. Because as of now, what that previous person listed is all I know what the Room 7 resident does. So edit it, improve it. Stop trying to be the censor who is only protecting his college club from their not so perfect past.

What else is that you also deleted the part of the article that some person listed on the Jeff losing control of Jeff Hall for a year because of their little compeitition fiasco. That is true. Look in the archives of the Cav Daily. Stop the censorship. If you want to edit the material to make it better. This article is not all about making a society look like the greatest society in the world, it is about, telling the truth. It is true the Room 7 resident provides alcohol to its members. It is true that the Jeff lost control of Jeff Hall for a year because it was found out that members of the Jeff use to have a compeitition to see who could sleep with the most female probies. Stop denying it and tell it. Wikipedia deserves that.


 * "It is true that the Jeff lost control of Jeff Hall for a year because it was found out that members of the Jeff use to have a compeitition to see who could sleep with the most female probies."
 * See, it's that kind of incorrect notion that makes the other tripe worth deleting. They were kicked out for alcohol violations.  You point me toward the Cav Daily records -- I'll point you back toward the same archives, and also to the Board of Visitors records.  Jeff Hall was kicked out for alcohol violations in the building.
 * Re: your high horse about making wikipedia better by improving it and so on: I improve it/make it better be deleting the mis-informed nonsense that sometimes winds up here.EEMeltonIV 19:23, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

-I think the complaint is that revision would be preferred over deletion.

date problem
The page suggests Thomas Jefferson wrote a letter on August, 12, 1895. I believe Jefferson died in 1826. Perhaps the letter's original date is 1795 or some other year. I don't have access to the letter, so I won't alter the page on a guess, but perhaps whoever made the original statement can respond to the issue.
 * Not only does it suggest -- it states. It was my eff up.  Thanks for the heads up. --EEMeltonIV 21:57, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Grading for Wiki Debate Project
Article seems alright. Lead section perhaps a little too long (Should be roughly 4 paragraphs). More citations to become a 'B'. Scar ian Talk  18:16, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

"Longstanding Interpretation"
Regarding the translation from Virgil: I don't really have a dog in this fight--someone else can argue about what the words in the motto really mean--but I don't think the one up there is necessarily the Society's "longstanding interpretation." The "official" translation has been altered over the years--most recently with "divinity" replacing "God." A look through the Society's archives would show that the exact translation has varied over the long time the Latin motto has been in place.--Velvet elvis81 (talk) 18:47, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Officer Continuity
Someone changed the officers to those elected for Fall 2007 but left the Room 7 resident for Spring 2007. I changed it to reflect all of the officers for the upcoming semester, rather than a conglomeration of two semesters, which didn't fit under the single label "Fall 2007". Someone changed the Room 7 Resident listing back to the 2006-2007 resident but left the rest of the officers for Fall 2007. This isn't consistent. Whatever set of officers are listed, we shouldn't have a combination of two different semesters. Since the anonymous editor wishes to have the Room 7 resident from 2006-2007 remain, I've accordingly listed the rest of the officers for the final semester of that year, rather than have some new and some old up. There's something to be said for having the old officers up untill the new ones officially begin work anyway. PubliusVarrus 02:12, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Potential source
- Has all kinds of information on the Jeff. and other topics. --EEMIV (talk) 00:08, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Call to action
Jeff Hall people are just the sort who would thrive in Wikiland. So my call to action: If anyone out there is in a position to add citations to sources to shore up the article, by all means pitch in. The article itself appears sound, but for now it is languishing in a no-wiki-land of unsourced material. It's probably all (mostly) true, but can anyone demonstrate that more convincingly?83.5.145.222 (talk) 15:06, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

External links modified
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Name and Title - The Jefferson Society ?
The very name of the Society is, as it were, "debatable." As a Hall member, I have always taken the view that the finer and simpler name of the Society is simply The Jefferson Society.

Yes, descriptively, it is a literary and debating society, but including that in the official name is so much verbiage, and suggests there is some other, ideal Jefferson Society out there in the ether from which we must distinguish ourselves with the epithet Literary and Debating amidth our moniker. We start with The Jefferson Society, and every gratuitous syllable beyond that just hacks away at our collective trunk.

Note the seal of the Society: JS, not JL&DS.

The U.Va. alumni association irked me no end when it created its own "Jefferson Society," out of whole cloth, as a category of university donors at a certain annual level. It is of course no society, just a donor list.

Can we change the name of the article?

What's the "real" name of the Society?

Input from Hall Historians and the like? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.5.145.222 (talk) 12:59, 19 June 2009 (UTC)