Talk:Jefferson disk

Cipher System
The link to "cipher system" now points to a Swedish melodic death metal band. I don't think that's what's desired.129.42.208.183 (talk) 18:16, 18 October 2013 (UTC)Dave

Merge discussion
I don't think the two articles need to be merged. There's a small amount of duplication but space is not short. The two articles are adequately linked so that anyone reading one and interested in the other can easily find it. --Wtshymanski 03:38, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, both articles are describing the exact same topic &mdash; a merge seems necessary. &mdash; Matt Crypto 10:16, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Someone who feels more bold than I can merge them. The Bazeries cylinder article is a little on the long side, but I suppose the short paragraph that uniquely describes the Jefferson invention wouldn't hurt it. If it's merged, I think that the photo must also be moved. --Wtshymanski 16:46, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)

DON'T MERGE THEM!! Jefferson needs to be honored with the invention of this particular machine, not Bazeries, and vice versa.
 * But aren't they the same machine? We don't keep seperate articles simply to "honour" people. &mdash; Matt Crypto 18:52, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

I have gone ahead and done the merge as I felt they definitely should be the same article - the duplication was confusing. I hope I have done it in a way that highlights both people's contributions. I placed the page here as Jefferson was the original inventor, but kept the use of the Bazeries name through the discussion as it is his version that is used. Kcordina 10:10, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Alice and Bob are commonly used names to denote the message encoder and decoder. Unfortunately, their usage is both unclear and American biased (maybe British biased? but definitely not worldly). I suggest we remove all their references and replace with message encoder or something similar. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.232.103.200 (talk) 21:26, 23 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I also completely agree and I have changed it :) Logan5671111TalkLogan5671111#0001 17:30, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

Commons link
I've removed the Wikipedia Commons link as there wasn't a page there and the only search result for "Jefferson Disk" on Commons was the image that's already on the page. Jobarts-Talk 23:27, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Nazi Reference
Is there any need to have 'heilhitler' be the message to be decoded? I tracked down the history of it, and it seems to be a remnant from the original initial Bazeries cylinder page (now a redirect), merged into this title and apparently imported from some unnamed 'public domain source.' I don't feel there's any reason to keep the code there. TJEFFERSON would be perfectly fine I think. —Preceding unsigned comment added by JJansen (talk • contribs) 01:45, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I totally agree. I'm a teacher at a german school and right now we're talking about different cypher methods. I couldn't explain that Hitler-reference to the student who found this. That's plain unnecessary since Jefferson has a complete different background and time of life. Mana (talk) 12:32, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Poor writing
This article is riddled with an awkward present tense voice, and cast in terms of "and then Holmes does this, and then Holmes does that".

It's awkward and distracting. We can do better. This is largely a stylistic point and so need not be repaired instantly, but is less than good work. WP should be better served.

I will add it to my list, but doubt if I will be able to get to it. ww (talk) 20:08, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

There are 36 disks
The Jefferson disks had 36 disks, not 26 (there are 26 characters on the periphery of each of the 36 disks). See The Codebreakers by David Kahn (page 194 of the 1st edition).

You can also count 35 disks on the image attached to the article. That image is from the National Cryptologic Museum (the 36th was taken out to show a disk in its entirety, it is in placed in front of the set of disks on display at the Museum).

I will fix the error Econrad (talk) 19:21, 5 November 2009 (UTC)


 * The montecello.org page says Jefferson used 26 disks. The model shown uses 36. I clarified this in the article. I also did a major copy edit of the intro, which was repetitious and misleading regarding security.--agr (talk) 21:50, 5 November 2009 (UTC)


 * The Codebreakers is a far more reliable source than the Monticello.org web site. The Codebreakers cites Jefferson using 36 disks. Just because someone built a modern set of 26 disks does not mean Jefferson used 26 disks.


 * See page 194 of this edition of the Codebreakers on Google Books: http://books.google.com/books?id=SEH_rHkgaogC&lpg=PA194&ots=_0iql8t0v4&dq=jefferson%20cypher%20codebreakers%20kahn%2036&pg=PA194#v=onepage&q=&f=false
 * Econrad (talk) 21:56, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Precedence of European designs.
A device similar to, but more advanced than, that of TJ was designed in Sweden by Fredrik Gripenstierna in 1786.

Since the Jefferson cylinder was never constructed precedence might also be given to Gottfried Leibniz who designed a machine c1670 that had some similar features. AnnaComnemna (talk) 19:07, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

Further information on the Jefferson disk
Even Jefferson failed to recognize the brilliance of his invention; he praised the Playfair cipher to its inventor, disparaging his own effort.

While his description involved a wooden version, the WWI version was made of metal, considerably smaller, and easier to carry and hide.

See "Codebreakers" by David Kahn. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lucky Vassall (talk • contribs) 19:00, 16 June 2019 (UTC)