Talk:Jeffrey Catherine Jones

Biography assessment rating comment
WikiProject Biography Assessment

The article may be improved by following the WikiProject Biography 11 easy steps to producing at least a B article. -- Yamara 23:48, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Too subjective and meandering
I'm removing the following sentences and being too subjective and meandering, and unreferenced. Note there are more words hidden in HTML brackets. --Yamara 23:54, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

(At the time he was competing with Roy G. Krenkel who had a tight almost J. Allen St. John-ish style and Frank Frazetta.  There were strong similarities and differences between Frazetta and Jones.  Both tended to stage their scenes in stylized spaces, both showed a strong color sense which made both artists' work memorable.  Frazetta's men were burlier, his women more buxom than Jones's.  They are both very excellent draftsmen.)


 * The entire section on his sex change, and later health issues (actually his entire biography) reads like it was written by a sympathetic friend, not an objective piece of fact telling. And it seems that as much time is spent on his sexual anxiety and health than as to why he was a somewhat known figure. Strange.

Louise?
To confirm - this is the one who was married to Louise Simonson, right? DS (talk) 21:03, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

To confirm, yes. According to J. D. King, who is a friend of Walter Simonson's and fellow alumnus of RISD, Louise Simonson was married to that Jeff Jones. Jplatt39 (talk) 22:29, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Name
Most references to the subject's death seem to be referring to her as either "Jeffrey Jones" or "Jeffrey Catherine Jones". Wouldn't one of those (I'm thinking the latter, based on her female identification) be more appropriate for the title of the article? -Jason A. Quest (talk) 21:46, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Subject was generally referred to, and usually professionally known, as "Jeff Jones." Jones was best known as an sf artist, and that's how, for example, Locus lists the name in its awards index. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 22:30, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Odd, since her work was mostly in the fantasy genre. The official site's biography credits 'Jeffrey Catherine Jones'. She's been alive for most of the last 60 years, so should the article be changed back as well? Point being: The most recent facts are the most accurate. - JeffJonez (talk) 15:13, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

That may well be the case, but she was a woman, and calling her "Jeff Jones" casts her as a man, which is insulting and transphobic. She obviously wasn't using the name "Jeff" at the end of her life. The name of the article is transphobic and should be changed. For that matter, why does nearly the entire article avoid pronouns? Her pronouns were she/her. I can't think of any good reason not to use them, except perhaps that those doing the avoiding don't like the fact that she was trans very much.


 * Just because you wish, and have the right to be "politically correct", doesn't mean the rest of the world has to follow suit on unusual issues. Jeff Jones spent the majority of his life as a male, and was certainly known as a man during the entire period he was producing works for which he was famous (or at least known). SHE did not do the Idyl strip, HE did. During the whole final period, she was pretty much out of the spotlight, and if she didn't do the things he did as a male, and only produced the works she did as a she, she wouldn't qualify to be included in a work such as wikipedia in the first place.

Anyhow... Jeffrey Catherine Jones, rest in peace. -a transgender person. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.210.157.158 (talk) 07:07, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Now that's just preposterous, given that the name the subject most recently chose to be identified by, on the subject's own website, was "Jeffrey Jones." Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 22:19, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
 * That web site is not the most recent. The subject's most recent choice to be identified is on her Facebook page as Jeffery Catherine Jones. The industry she worked around, her audience, and the journalists who reported on her passing also identify her as such. It's an accurate reflection of the artist's verifiable notability under that name, and of her official and legal name change more than a decade ago. MichaelNetzer (talk) 23:34, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
 * In light of the consensus here, and the majority notable uses of "Jeffrey Catherine Jones" as the artist's name for more than a decade since her gender re-assignment, the page title has been changed. Links to the former name "Jeff Jones (Artist)" will still re-direct users to this page. MichaelNetzer (talk) 17:38, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Addressing the above anonymous trans person's comments: The article avoids pronouns when practical to do so, in keeping with Wikipedia writing guidelines for dealing with trans persons. There are various arguments for it grounded in Wikpedia's on Neutral Point of View policy, but the main reason for avoiding pronouns is to keep the prose straightforward, and to avoid arguments about what the appropriate pronoun is in a given context. It is not a settled question in our society whether a person who (for example) self-identifies as female and becomes legally female as an adult should be referred to as "he" or "she" earlier in life; the answer may very well be different from case to case. As a personal note: Wikipedia also has policies regarding civility in handling disagreements, and I would ask you to review them before saying that it is "insulting" to refer to someone as male, or accusing others of transphobia. Assume good faith and others will be more likely to return the favor. -Jason A. Quest (talk) 02:47, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
 * "transphobia" is an outrageous word to begin with, and even though I detest Stalinisms, that word should be struck from the English language. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.125.231.214 (talk) 20:52, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Citations and NPOV tags
The article has inline citations for most every item in it. The only discussion on this page concerning neutrality is dated back to 2007, and the article has been greatly revised since then. Can anyone cite a specific reason why these tags should stay? MichaelNetzer (talk) 19:20, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

Quotes on gender transition
Removed second quote on gender transition. There's no verification except for this single word-of-mouth quote, and her transition is not relevant to her notability. Knitmeapony (talk) 03:28, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Article Assessment
The quote from the Comic's Journal in the Gender transition section seems a bit long winded, feels too copy pasted for my taste.

Additionally, I think it would be beneficial if there were more images of Jones work, comics and covers alike, since there is no indication of her style and technique in this page as of present. It would also be nice for there to be a photo included of what she really looked like, no disrespect to Micheal Netzer, but the illustration as the only indication of her appearance doesn't seem appropriate to me. Alegrafigeroid (talk) 19:19, 11 February 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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Michael A. Gonzales essay
Michael A. Gonzales' essay on Jones, "On the Art and Life of Jeffrey Catherine Jones", is on CrimeReads.

Very intersting for me was his close friendship with Bode.--Ralfdetlef (talk) 20:24, 11 May 2024 (UTC)