Talk:Jeffrey Veregge

Ethnicity/nationality in lead
I've reverted the replacement at the start of the intro of "S'Klallam" piped to Klallam people with "American". had made the change citing MOS:ETHNICITY, but Veregge was not only an enrolled member of a tribe, which is no mere ethnic heritage, but his Salish identity was an important part of his work and his notability. (I also reverted the same change in the summary template, which is solely on en.wiki and doesn't affect the central Wikidata summary.) However, Wikipedia articles are read by people all over the world, so it's desirable to provide the national context and not expect the reader to click the link to find out what coast of what continent is being talked about, and the infobox is an adjunct to the article, not a replacement. So in my edit I added "in Washington State, US" immediately after (and moved information on his style to be all in the following sentence). I hope the mention of the state and country is not inadvertently diminishing to his Native American identity; that's not my heritage, and I know the issue is politically fraught. Hence I'm starting this section for discussion if anyone feels it's necessary. Yngvadottir (talk) 01:34, 10 June 2024 (UTC)


 * I support this inclusion. I'd be fine if the mention was rephrased to "Native American (Port Gamble Band of S'Klallam Indians)" or something like that, but as a federally recognized tribe the Port Gamble Band should be considered a sovereign nation with membership in the tribe being identical to citizenship. ThadeusOfNazereth(he/him)Talk to Me! 12:43, 10 June 2024 (UTC)


 * I do not understand the insistence on removing the tribal affiliation, especially since his work was so distinctively Salish. I think adding the state and country are appropriate given that we cannot expect a reader in Indonesia or Italy to necessarily know.Elinruby (talk) 23:03, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Note: has now added "American" in front of "S'Klallam" in both the intro and the short description (removing my addition of state and country in the intro): edit. This should be discussed here. Yngvadottir (talk) 22:28, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Are you fine with the phrasing I proposed above ("Native American (Port Gamble Band of S'Klallam Indians)")? This is in line with MOS:ETHNICITY's example for articles about enrolled members of a tribe and with WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North America's recommended phrasing. ThadeusOfNazereth(he/him)Talk to Me! 23:17, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Not really, but I won't edit any further here so do what you wish. GiantSnowman 18:55, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

Well, it gets more fraught from here. My point was that despite my opinion of blood quantum as a sine qua non for the identity, in this case he is an enrolled member of a federally-recognized tribe, and therefore meets everyone's definition of someone with a tribal affiliation. Also, the Salish style is intrinsically indigenous, to the point where anyone else who adopted it would probably be seen as appropriating. On the other hand there is an argument to be made that anyone who doesn't know where Seattle is probably doesn't know who the S'Kallam are. I don't have strong feelings about the internationalization aspect of this. It occurs to me to wonder whether the subject considered himself American, but it doesn't seem worth having the argument unless there are strong indications that he didn't. Bottom line, I think my concern is more or less addressed and I bow to consensus, whatever it is, on whether "American" or "Washington state" should be included Elinruby (talk) 01:03, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

If the question is now Native American (Port Gamble Band of S'Klallam Indians) vs American (Port Gamble Band of S'Klallam Indians) then I think the first one is a better, fwiw. Elinruby (talk) 01:03, 11 June 2024 (UTC)