Talk:Jennie Smillie Robertson/GA1

GA Review
The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.''

Reviewer: ImmortalWizard (talk · contribs) 21:15, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

Yulp, I'll take over. I don't have enough background knowledge on science but it'll be fine. I am busy in life and this review might take days. Are you with me nominator?  Immortal  Wizard  (chat) 21:15, 12 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Sure thing! It shouldn't be very science/medicine heavy and I'm at a similar status in life right now anyway. Thanks!  originalmess  how u doin that busta rhyme? 23:15, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

Use "ctrl+f" for Windows and "cmd+f" to navigate easily I am a WP:CUP participant

Lead
Since it's the lead, I might frequently add and alter my opinions throughout the review *Page move to "Jennie Smillie" since it's more common?
 * Most of the sources are titled/refer to her as Smillie Robertson or Smillie until she's married, the latter of which I followed. Not sure  originalmess  how u doin that busta rhyme?
 * I think that's fine.  Immortal  Wizard  (chat) 19:11, 15 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Couldn't she be also known as a "social reformer" or "activist" or sth?
 * I don't think there's much information on her political work outside of org memberships/restarting the hospital :/  originalmess  how u doin that busta rhyme?


 * "Canadian" does not require wikilink
 * "gynecological surgery" should be wikilinked
 * Shouldn't it be better to keep only surgeon as occupation, since physician is similar?
 * "...was a Canadian obstetrics and gynaecology surgeon and physician. She was the first modern female surgeon in Canada and performed the country's first major gynecological surgery." - I would change to "...was a Canadian surgeon. She performed the first major gynecological surgery in Canada and was the country's first woman of her occupation". Any better modification would be appreciated.
 * "Born on a farm, she displayed an interest in medicine from an early age. Smillie taught school and saved her salary to pay for medical school." - I think this could be written in a more professional way.
 * How are the above two now?  originalmess  how u doin that busta rhyme?
 * Seems much better.  Immortal  Wizard  (chat) 20:27, 15 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Her year of death shoudn't be repeated, only the age is enough.
 * What does "modern" mean? It could be replaced with "recorded" which is in one of the sources.
 * Modern meaning in modern history (in contrast to trepanation performed by early aboriginal Canadians, for example); however, recorded fits just as well and is probably less confusing. Changed  originalmess  how u doin that busta rhyme?
 * Please look at the changes I made.  Immortal  Wizard  (chat) 19:46, 16 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Coming to this as a first time reader, I found "modern knowledge" jarring. I proposed different wording, but will defer to those working on the GA process. David notMD (talk) 10:52, 20 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Awesome, never knew about that page. Tbh I think modern is more understandable to a layperson, but I don't have a problem with either wording (modern vs scientific) though. I do think calling her a doctor with surgical training makes it unclear that she was foremost a surgeon, not just a doctor who knew about surgery. Would it be better to replace the description entirely with "first (maybe insert professional or trained here?) female surgeon in Canada"?  originalmess  how u doin that busta rhyme? 01:30, 21 January 2019 (UTC)


 * "the country's first major gynecological surgery" to me, it would be an entirely different statement if "in a patient's home", which is mentioned in the body. nevermind
 * "Ontario Medical College for Women" wikilink?

Infobox

 * Ontario Medical College for Women (merged into University of Toronto), M.D. 1909 - I don't think M.D. and date is required here
 * Ontario Medical College for Women (merged into University of Toronto) wikilink the colleges?

Early life and education

 * "his wife" is not required and should be removed to avoid gender neutrality. good catch thank you! Can't believe how long that's been there  originalmess  how u doin that busta rhyme?
 * "Born on February 10, 1878, a farm outside of Hensall, Ontario, she was the fourth child of Benjamin Smilie (1839–1886) and his wife, Jane Smillie (née Buchanan) (1849–1906). She had six siblings." - I would suggest rewriting as "Jennie Smillie was born on February 10, 1878, on a farm near Hensall, Ontario, the fourth child of Jane (née Buchanan, 1849-1906) Benjamin Smillie (1839–1886). She had six siblings."
 * How's the new version?   originalmess  how u doin that busta rhyme?


 * I feel like it's better to condense the second paragraph in the first. "During her childhood..." should be in between the first line and "Later in life..."
 * "Ontario Medical College for Women" could be wikilinked to here
 * "During her childhood, both her parents were interested in education; since they lived on a farm, she and her siblings walked two and a half miles to attend public schools in Hensall. Later, Smillie paid for room and board to attend public schools in Seaforth, Ontario." - this sentences could merged and shortened to make it much better.
 * Better? Edit: ty for ce both comments above.  originalmess  how u doin that busta rhyme?


 * " In 1906, during her second year of medical school, the College was" - college small letter please
 * I would like to stop here now. A lot of copyediting is required and I don't think this article pass the criteria. I do allow a lot of time for improvement. But considering your busy life, and the amount of work you had to do here, I don't think it will work. I haven't even started to do fact checking and I already have a lot of issues regarding sentence construction, prose and coverage. It is in quite low standards and I am hesitant to pass it at the moment. Should I continue or would you like to take more time and renominate?  Immortal  Wizard  (chat) 16:00, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Ah. So. About that. I forgot I originally tried over-expanding it to meet DYK expansion requirements (yes, like a student would try to pad an essay for word count) but gave up and haven't rewritten it since. Just did a minor rewrite, would you mind taking a look again? And what are your concerns on coverage?  originalmess  how u doin that busta rhyme? 01:42, 15 January 2019 (UTC)
 * "...to save for tuition for the Ontario Medical College for Women" - in Toronto?
 * Before I started editing, the article referred to the Kingston campus, but I remember looking for it in the sources and not being able to find that specified anywhere. The source you can't access actually says "Women's Medical College of Toronto". Edit: Ah, and source #4 as well (Ogilvie and Harvey).  originalmess  how u doin that busta rhyme?

Career

 * "Medical internships in Canada were difficult for women to obtain in the early 1900s" couldn't find the time period in the source. Probably avoid "the early 1900s"?
 * "first woman surgeon in general" I don't get it and could be replaced with recorded as I said earlier.
 * It was to clarify that she's not just the first woman to perform gynecological surgery - I've taken it out, let me know if that's less clear without it
 * I made some changes.  Immortal  Wizard  (chat) 19:48, 16 January 2019 (UTC)


 * "surgical ward" could it be wikilinked to "Surgical nursing"?
 * That article has a tag from 2010 saying it might only be relevant to Australia :/

Last years and legacy

 * I would change the title from "last" to "later" for formality
 * "though she had met him forty years prior" they met in 1898 and if you do the math, it was fifty years prior
 * Good catch, the source has an error


 * " She commented that, "I first met the man I was to marry many years later, in 1898 while I was teaching. At that time I was planning for medicine, not marriage, and I didn’t think I could have both."" I don't think this is worth mentioning and could be removed.
 * I've cut it down and put it in context - still remove?

Results

 * GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)


 * 1) It is reasonably well written.
 * a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
 * 1) It is factually accurate and verifiable.
 * a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources):  c (OR):  d (copyvio and plagiarism):
 * 1) It is broad in its coverage.
 * a (major aspects): b (focused):
 * 1) It follows the neutral point of view policy.
 * Fair representation without bias:
 * 1) It is stable.
 * No edit wars, etc.:
 * 1) It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
 * a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass/Fail:
 * 1) It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
 * a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass/Fail:
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass/Fail:

I am almost ready to pass it. Before, that please look the comments.  Immortal  Wizard  (chat) 20:02, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

Awesome! Now it pretty much meets all the criteria. Passing it.  Immortal  Wizard  (chat) 17:18, 21 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Thank you for reviewing and giving great feedback!  originalmess  how u doin that busta rhyme? 18:41, 21 January 2019 (UTC)