Talk:Jennifer Lien

Pronunciation
Can someone who knows give the pronunciation of her last name? Is it "Lie-en", "Lean" or what? I've never heard it spoken, and it's an unusual name. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bwanderson (talk • contribs) 08:10, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

its pronounced : "leen" like bruce lee just with n 23:57, 06 Dec 2012 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.182.27.165 (talk)

Relevance
There is a large amount of information here pertaining to the history of the character Kes from Star Trek: Voyager. IMO it's not really relevant to an article about the actress. A line that she played Kes in Voyager would be sufficient. Thoughts? Tomalak Geret&#39;kal (talk) 15:25, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Picture
Can we please get a picture of Jennifer on here, I noticed there's a picture on the article about Kes, but not on this article. I found a picture on google images that was taken just last year at some Trek convention. Would it be possible for me to upload it to Jennifer Lien's info box on this article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Trekkie33 (talk • contribs) 02:34, 11 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Images on Wikipedia must be free for commercial use and alteration. The image you found is likely copyrighted. Please see Image. - SummerPhD (talk) 02:43, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

Well, all I'm saying is the character she played on Voyager has an info box picture, but not the article about her. I am new to editing wikipedia, so if someone can find a recent picture of Miss Lien, please upload it, thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Trekkie33 (talk • contribs) 03:19, 11 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Understood. It would be great to have a photo of her to use in this article. For fictional characters, as in the Kes article, we can simply use a promotional photo under fair use. Since there is no way to take a photo of "Kes", we can make limited use of existing images of "Kes" in ariticles about "Kes". However, it is theoretically possible to take a photo of Jennifer Lien. So, unless someone has a photo and is willing to release it (or has uploaded it to a photo sharing site with the appropriate free use release), we are stuck. - SummerPhD (talk) 03:34, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

Yes, true, but I was looking on photo bucket and found a couple, don't know how good they would be to use, but still if we could find a promotional picture of Jennifer Lien as "Kes" or maybe the one of Kes on her article. - - - Trekker33 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Trekkie33 (talk • contribs) 04:02, 11 April 2011 (UTC)
 * We cannot use a promotional picture of her as Kes, except in an article about "Kes". We need a copyright-free image for use in this article. - Sum mer PhD  (talk) 05:07, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

Well, she has several recent mug shots, which are public domain, right? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.94.20.255 (talk) 20:45, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Depending on the agency taking the photo, it may or may not be public domain. However, we do not use mugshots as identifying images in biographies unless the photo is directly related to the person's main notability. (See WP:MUG.} - Sum mer PhD v2.0 04:17, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

Former American actress?
I'm not sure what exactly is being said here. It seems to imply that she has renounced her American citizenship and has immigrated to another country, or is she an American former actress meaning that she is still an American but has quit acting? --Drewder (talk) 20:29, 25 August 2013 (UTC)


 * This would be an interesting project for someone to set up a bot to do across Wikipedia. Correctly, I believe (unless something wild happened!) that it is "American former actress" because she did leave acting and pursued other things. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:2000:A081:FB00:CD94:B48:9DC5:FB18 (talk) 11:17, 7 March 2016 (UTC)


 * She was formerly an American actress so she is a former American actress. Sheesh. -- Jibal (talk) 10:20, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

"Former American actress" means she used to be an American actress. Now she might be a French actress.

"American former actress" means she is an American who used to be an actress.

When we say someone is an "American actress", we are not saying their acting is American, much like a "little red car" is little and red, it's not that the red is somehow little. If we repaint the car, it would be a "little formerly red car", not a "formerly little red car". - Sum mer PhD v2.0 16:34, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

"artwork"
This "artwork", File:Jennifer_Lien.jpg is not consistent with WP:LEADIMAGE. It is not "the type of image that is used for similar purposes in high-quality reference works". Instead of an image of the subject presented in high quality sources, it seems to be a mugshot superimposed on crayon scribbles. Of the sources used in this article, biographies tend to use promotional shots:, , ,. Star Trek sources use Star Trek shots:, ,. Police blotter sources use mug shots: , This article is a biography. It is not a place for, um, "fan art" (using a very loose definition of "fan"). This is not a police blotter or scandal sheet. - Sum mer PhD v2.0 02:30, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
 * and all of the SPA IPs, Please discuss the issue. - Sum mer PhD v2.0 05:25, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

Date of birth/reliable sources
Film reference is not a reliable source. See WikiProject_Film/Resources, Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_93, Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_39, Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_58. Another article uses it? Maybe it shouldn't. Maybe someone editing that article is saying, "Well, it's cited in Jennifer Lien..." If you feel the source meets WP:IRS, especially for a WP:BLP, please take the issue to Reliable_sources/Noticeboard. Otherwise, the standing consensus is that it is not a reliable source. - Sum mer PhD v2.0 05:10, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Please discuss the issue. - Sum mer PhD v2.0 05:20, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

No longer an actress, unsourced info, etc.
Yes, I agree with your removal of the image, though not you reasoning (see above). Yes, Lien was an actress for the years shown in the box as "years active". True, she has not acted in some time, thus "years active". Please note that we still show Julius Caesar's various positions, though he certainly is no longer "Dictator of the Roman Republic", etc. Yes, Lien's roles are not sourced. Take a look at Meryl Streep, Dustin Hoffman, etc. You will see a similar situation. There is little point is doubting Lien's various roles as they are easily verified. Our policy, WP:V, demands inline cites for information that is likely to be challenged. If you doubt that Lien had any of these roles, they are easily verified by watching the credits of the production in question or checking any number of reliable sources. If you have any questions, feel free to ask here or on your talk page. - Sum mer PhD v2.0 14:20, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
 * welcome to Wikipedia.

SPA editors
We've had a sudden influx of editors here: Two IPs from Australia and two SPA editors with strongly worded opinions. It would be helpful if they would discuss what they disagree with. I'd say more, but the smell of sweaty footwear is rather strong... - Sum mer PhD v2.0 14:24, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't know why one editor feels the need to use multiple accounts and IPs. More to the point, I don't care.
 * Pick an account. One account and use it. Place a notice on your talk page or user page listing the other accounts you have used. Stay with that account and be sure to log in whenever you edit.
 * Otherwise, the next step is a sockpuppetry case to tie them all together for you, permanent blocks for all but one account and a temporary block on the remaining account (to be sure we've gotten your attention). - Sum mer PhD v2.0 14:41, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

Well, the massive box of socks running through here continues. WP:EVADE applies. Disagreeing with the existence of any rules or guidelines does not provide justification for ignoring them. Wikipedia is a voluntary association. When you have been invited to follow up on a repeated threat to disassociate and you refuse to do so, the disconnect is clear. - Sum mer PhD v2.0 13:25, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

TV.com
As a user-edited site, TV.com is not a reliable source. For further discussion, see the numerous times we have come to this conclusion, linked at.

Apology
Sorry about the avalanche of edits. I get a little carried away sometimes. In hindsight this was disrespectful as I should do one at a time and give editors plenty of time to respond to each edit. If other editors don’t have a problem with the edit after a day or so I can move on to the next edit, and in so doing build trust. A learning experience to be sure. CodeBadger (talk) 17:11, 9 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Nonsense. With numerous accounts and IPs, you've had more than enough time. I'm just surprised you've found your way to the talk page. If you'd like, I can add to the sock case. Just ask, it's no trouble at all. - Sum mer PhD v2.0 22:11, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for taking the time to reply. Much appreciated. I will only use the CodeBadger account for editing. I noticed that you did not revert my last edit relating to Ms Lien’s DOB, age and birth name; you must have been sorely tempted to do so in light of your concerns with my editing, and I must commend you for your integrity in this regard. CodeBadger (talk) 08:22, 12 October 2015 (UTC)
 * As a sock puppet of an indefinitely blocked users, all of your edits may be reverted at any time, per WP:EVADE, as you are well aware. That you dislike having to follow community norms does not exempt you from them. Voluntary associations are a two way street. - Sum mer PhD v2.0 15:19, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for your reply. Message received. CodeBadger (talk) 23:48, 12 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Gosh, I'm glad you understand, ////////////... - Sum mer PhD v2.0 00:30, 13 October 2015 (UTC)

No mention of her arrest record?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGGSZ-lGZVg

Come on, guys. The info is out there.104.129.196.115 (talk) 15:13, 19 March 2018 (UTC)


 * ...and the information is in there (it's at the end of the "Personal life" section. - Sum mer PhD v2.0 16:48, 19 March 2018 (UTC)
 * sort of glossed over, tho' - this reads like a fangirl page — Preceding unsigned comment added by 104.169.45.151 (talk) 10:36, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
 * It's a question of WP:WEIGHT. Lien is best known for her acting career. Most of the sources are about her career.
 * Yes, we have a few sources that mention her arrests. We mention her arrests. If there was wall-to-wall media coverage, live TV coverage of police chases, made for TV movies, books, documentaries and riots, we'd have that coverage. Instead, we have brief mentions in a few sources. - Sum mer PhD v2.0 19:55, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Sorry I don't understand - she was arrested for indecent exposure in the presence of children and yet no where can I find what her court sentence was - I see that her attack on police got her a fine and a required mental health supervision but nothing about the sentencing for the sex crime?--2600:8800:FF0E:1200:1962:B311:16B2:F79B (talk) 11:06, 22 June 2019 (UTC)
 * You've jumped ahead several steps in the legal system. She was arrested for allegedly exposing herself in the presence of children. We do not have sources saying she was charged for exposing herself. We do not have sources saying she accepted a deal, pled guilty or was convicted for exposing herself. You've skipped those steps, assumed the outcomes and want to know what the sentence was. It is entirely possible that charges were dropped, an alternative to sentencing was offered and accepted or sources simply don't exist. - Sum mer PhD v2.0 17:37, 22 June 2019 (UTC)

Uncited (mis)information near the bottom of the career section
The sentence "Lien's Voyager contract was not renewed after season three to allow Jeri Ryan to join the cast as Seven of Nine within the existing budget." does not have a source and I can find no proof of this claim.

There's a long time argument around the situation within the star trek Fandom. Some believe that the show was failing so 7of9 was brought for sex appeal but this too has not been proven to be accurate. Early in the show it was explained that Lien's character was a species with a very short lifespan and it was always the plan that she would leave the show at some point. Ciper (talk) 11:20, 9 January 2020 (UTC)


 * There is a lot of murky information and rumours surrounding the exact reasons as to why Ms Lien was let go after the third season. Including that Jeri Ryan was always intended to join the show, but actually at the expense of a different cast member who was given a last minute reprieve, and that Ms Lien had done something to anger one of the producers. There is possible credence to both of these points, given the onscreen events in the third season finale "Scorpion, Part I" and the timing of Kes' return in the sixth season episode "Fury", but again as with your original point this is all just conjecture. StolenEyes (talk) 18:59, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Per this article, Lien was let go due to a combination of substance abuse & mental health issues interfering with her ability to perform. I don't know that Heavy.com is a WP:RS, but the article is actually claiming to get its info from interviews in the book Star Trek Voyager: A Celebration. I may pick up that book and see if I can put together some proper sourcing so we can update the article. &mdash;  The Hand That Feeds You :Bite 17:21, 2 February 2023 (UTC)