Talk:Jeon Somi/Archive 1

Suggest merge with List of Produce 101 contestants and Sixteen (TV series).
See Talk:List of Produce 101 contestants -- Kanghuitari (talk) 03:38, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

Guidelines for being relevant enough to have their own wiki page
What is the criteria to have your own wiki page? Mentaikoz (talk) 11:21, 11 January 2017 (UTC)
 * In this case, having some sort of notable individual music releases / acting career (minor cameo appearances doesnt count), I don't think that she meets the crieteria, she is currently notable only for being a member of I.O.I. and nothing else Snowflake91  (talk) 14:37, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

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Nationality
For the sake of discussion I've reverted it back to your version, but I removed those categories and that wording the lead because there's no evidence Somi holds any form of South Korean citizenship. Somi isn't a citizen of Korea, she's just based there, thus these descriptors and these categories are incorrect. I searched very heavily and could not find a single article, even from unreliable sources, that stated she had any form of South Korean citizenship. DanielleTH (Say hi!) 19:14, 27 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi, have you found any reliable sources that say her citizenship is Canadian? thanks Atlantic306 (talk) 20:20, 27 November 2018 (UTC)
 * I fished around and I found this reliable source which states that she holds citizenship in Canada, South Korea, and the Netherlands, which would make her a Canadian-Korean-Dutch singer, currently based in South Korea. DanielleTH  (Say hi!) 22:37, 27 November 2018 (UTC)
 * They are probably just guessing, she cannot have other citizenships beside Korean (if she has it) because thats forbidden by the Korean law, if she accepted Korean citizenship than her Canadian or Dutch citizenship is revoked. And the article is talking about nationalities and not about citizenship, those two are not the same thing. Snowflake91  (talk) 23:27, 27 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Well then she's probably a Canadian citizen, because I could find zero evidence that she changed her citizenship. This LA Weekly article explicitly states she's Canadian, and two reliable sources label her Korean-Canadian . If you can't hold dual citizenship as a Korean then it's more likely they're referring to her being Canadian and ethnically Korean, like how "Korean American" is used. There is enough reliable evidence though that she's the very least a Canadian citizen though, so the lead needs to be fixed. DanielleTH  (Say hi!) 00:37, 28 November 2018 (UTC)


 * , directing you here if you'd like to contribute, since you put in that her nationality is Korean, and that she legally changed her name (which, per MOS:NAME, would be the reason to change the first name in the lead). Do you have any reliable sources for this? I couldn't find anything. DanielleTH  (Say hi!) 20:38, 6 December 2018 (UTC)


 * I honestly don’t even remember editing this article today so I think I’ve somehow accidentally clicked an old version or something? I’m not sure how. I completely agree with your undo though,, I’ve never seen anything of her changing citizenship either.Alexanderlee (talk) 21:16, 6 December 2018 (UTC)


 * There is disagreement in reliable sources as to her nationality and describing her as Canadian is based on original research so the lede should not be specific on the nationality Atlantic306 (talk)

Where is the discrepancy? She's called Korean-Canadian and or simply Canadian in all the reliable sources I have found. No indication of a nationality change. It not WP:OR, the source I linked is a) reliable and b) explicitly calls her Canadian. "Plus, it doesn’t hurt to be Canadian to achieve global pop domination." In this article she explicitly calls herself Korean-Canadian and Dutch so if you're worried we can do that method instead. But removing nationality entirely is incredibly weird and not based on reliable sources at all. DanielleTH (Say hi!) 13:20, 4 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Well, the discrepancy is as you describe between Korean-Canadian or just Canadian, that's a big difference. In view of the discrepancy I think Korean-Canadian woild be best, regards Atlantic306 (talk) 17:02, 4 June 2019 (UTC)


 * Korean-Canadian works fine! Though I think the "Korean" part is noting her ethnicity, like when people say "Chinese-American". DanielleTH  (Say hi!) 05:26, 5 June 2019 (UTC)


 * Comment made 1 year later: Actually, the above and the current article is incorrect. In this interview (link) on Omrop Fryslân, Somi states she has three nationalities: Canadian/Dutch/Korean. She explicitly states she has three passports: i.e "nationality" means 'nationality' rather than 'ethnicity'. You don't need to be able to read Western Frisian to understand the interview, because the videos are in English. You want to watch the second last video for the relevant details. Pinging:, , , . (NB: I haven't changed the article yet because I'm not sure about Wikipedia's rules. Can I cite a Western Frisian source if I don't speak the language, because the video is in English?). Apples&#38;Manzanas (talk) 13:55, 3 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Update - for the time being, I've updated the article using the AsiaOne source that Danielle mentioned before. But it would be good to use the Omrop Fryslân source as well, because that's the more clear and definite one. Apples&#38;Manzanas (talk) 14:21, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

XOXO (Jeon So-mi album)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:XOXO (Jeon So-mi album) which is related to this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. Sawol (talk) 13:54, 26 October 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 27 October 2021

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Lennart97 (talk) 09:05, 4 November 2021 (UTC)

Jeon So-mi → Jeon Somi – In order to reflect the artist's official name spelling on all platforms. Flabshoe1 (talk) 23:20, 27 October 2021 (UTC) The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Support, seems reasonable, "Somi" is her given middle name not her Korean name, and she is promoted as "Jeon Somi". ɴᴋᴏɴ21  ❯❯❯  talk  01:27, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Support per nom and Nkon21. It appears that she was promoted before with only her mononym, but older music videos were already renamed. LSGH (talk) (contributions) 12:32, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

Family members
has disputed the inclusion of the subject's family members' names  including mother, father and younger sister.

They were reverted once by who pointed out that his father (Matthew Douma) was an actor. I also reverted by pointing out that the sister (Evelyn) is a public figure having been in documentaries (existing citation ) and conducted interviews with celebrities.

I did not insert the mother and father's names, the two were already there, while I added in the sister's name based on the existing citation which is an entire documentary involving a road-trip with Evelyn and Matthew; MBC's Welcome to Korea, episode 142, aired 2020.

The sister Evelyn Maverick Douma has been involved in media since at least 2017. She has an interview with Dua Lipa she conducted on behalf of Warner Music Korea. She appeared in her first variety show in 2017.

All three persons have been extensively named in articles and interviews, and have publicly participated in television and other media. There is no reason to argue against their inclusion. —DA1 (talk) 07:25, 10 March 2022 (UTC)


 * I restored only the father name as he has starred in various Korean dramas and also few films. As for her sister, imo she isn't really that notable. And for her mother, she isn't any notable person nor public figure hence I don't see any reason to restore it, if it has been. Fyi, Soompi is considered as unreliable source per WP:KO/RS.  — Paper9oll  (🔔 • 📝)  07:49, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Soompi may be an unreliable source, but the YouTube channels and Television networks that aired the programs and interviews are not. Soompi is not being used as a citation in the article. Her sister's notability level is a factor if I were to make an article about her which I am not, rather it is mentioning her name as her sister. Doing corporate media interview gigs and appearing on national television multiple times in a voluntary role nullifies any privacy concern. It would be an inherent contradiction for us to invoke privacy when outside Wikipedia she is covered in national and international media. —DA1 (talk) 08:15, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
 * @DA1 Echo Alex comments. If it works, it works.  — Paper9oll  (🔔 • 📝)  08:39, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Wp:BLPNAME is relevant here. It states that The names of any immediate, former, or significant family members or any significant relationship of the subject of a BLP may be part of an article, if reliably sourced, subject to editorial discretion that such information is relevant to a reader's complete understanding of the subject. However, names of family members who are not also notable public figures must be removed from an article if they are not properly sourced. The sister and father are both active in the public eye, and both of their names are reliably sourced, so I don't really see any reason why this should be omitted. Alex (talk) 08:18, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Appreciate the response . Regarding the bit about her mother for anyone else here; However, names of family members who are not also notable public figures must be removed from an article if they are not properly sourced. should also not be forgotten. Including the names of parents have always been standard practice in my decade-plus experience editing here. I'm surprised that someone disputed even that part. —DA1 (talk) 08:50, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

RfC: Nationality in the lead
There were a lot of edit wars. Should it say "Korean-Canadian", "Canadian and South Korean", "Canadian-born South Korean", or some other option? Thedarkknightli (talk) 17:35, 25 March 2023 (UTC)


 * @Thedarkknightli Why not just keep the status quo as the edit wars are stale? Lightoil (talk) 03:28, 26 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I disagree with "Korean and Canadian". Thedarkknightli (talk) 15:51, 26 March 2023 (UTC)
 * @Thedarkknightli Then what do you prefer? Lightoil (talk) 15:54, 26 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Canadian-born South Korean. Would support the removal of her nationality (like what we've already done to Elon Musk, Russell Crowe, etc) alternatively cuz the "early life" section tells her back story clearly. Thedarkknightli (talk) 16:29, 26 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Korean and Canadian per MOS:NATIONALITY. This has come up a few times on biographies lately, but the guidelines are pretty clear in this situation. She's a citizen with direct ties to South Korea and Canada. We should follow the guidelines that state the use of the word and reduces ambiguity. Nemov (talk) 18:41, 28 March 2023
 * Korean and Canadian which is both status quo and policy per MOS:NATIONALITY. She has close ties with South Korea and Canada both as a citizen and a resident. Lightoil (talk) 13:47, 29 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Korean and Canadian per MOS:NATIONALITY.--Ortizesp (talk) 05:37, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Korean and Canadian but wouldn't mind the lede being just [South] Korean. She has multiple citizenship and notability ties to both countries. It's not like she spent her entire life in Canada and got Korean citizenship out of the blue. Though the country where she's most notable is South Korea. The hyphenated term "Korean-Canadian" often refers to ethnicity (a Canadian of Korean descent) which isn't the case for her. Clear Looking Glass (talk) 07:19, 12 April 2023 (UTC)


 * I support Korean and Canadian per MOS:NATIONALITY. And considering that she has lived in Korea since she was a child. And her professional base is Korea. Meloncookie (talk) 06:41, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Just a little note. There's another RfC going on right now about changes to MOS:NATIONALITY that could effect the outcome of this RfC since it's being used here to help resolve the issue. It might be wise to wait until that discussion is sorted out before a final decision here can be made. Nemov (talk) 20:27, 29 March 2023 (UTC)