Talk:Jeremy Stoppelman/Archives/2015

Focus
Hi, I've made some edits to this article and I'd like to make more but thought I would begin a discussion first. With all due respect to my friend and fellow editor CorporateM (who has openly invited feedback and collaboration on this article--for which I commend him), I find this article to be a bit anecdotal and fluffy. Also, while I don't doubt the notability of the subject, this BLP seems to have the Yelp Inc story weaved into it. There is some coatrack info about the founding of Yelp and when the subject met his future Yelp co-founders and details about how much this company paid for that company etc. Stoppleman has a story but its a simple one that can be told in a simple and straightforward manner and I'm tempted to keep editing it down but will wait to hear from others. Any thoughts on this? -- — Keithbob • Talk  • 20:55, 23 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Naturally, there is some redundancy with his article and the Yelp article, and I think that is to be expected. If you read the profile stories on Stoppelman closely, there are several events during his time at Yelp that are brought up by multiple sources that suggest they are the most significant things that took place in his life while working there. The call from Steve Jobs, the growth of the website, and the ringing of the bell at the stock exchange for example were all added after seeing them in multiple sources. A neutral article is representative of the source material, so if the sources about Stoppelman include these, I don't think it's our role as editors to decide to exclude content that's repeated in multiple profile stories on the subject.


 * I could see some of these trims being justified, but I'm not sure the article is improving as a whole. For example, the PayPal Mafia is a very specific reference repeated in multiple sources. Leaving a broad generality in its place I don't think is better. The San Francisco Chronicle goes into substantial depth about how his interest in computers was sparked by his access to one at an early age. And his time at Yelp is awkwardly missing from the lead. I did exclude his reputation as a well-dressed eligible bachelor, because there are some things Wikipedia has no interest in on principle, but in general we just repeat what the sources say and should not rationalize ignoring the sources.


 * I am interested in seeing the comments at the RFC on the Yelp page, because I do think that either I am making poor suggestions, or there may be some excessive defensiveness and over-compensation and I'm open-minded about it potentially being the former. If it is, I have some work to do to do better is all. CorporateM (Talk) 21:56, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks CM, I have done a lot of editing and writing on BLP's and I have some clear opinions about how they should be structured and what is encyclopedic and what isn't. At the same time I'm cognizant of the fact that it's not my encyclopedia :-) and I am open to the opinions and views of others. Thanks for expressing your view and concerns. Let's see what other editors think and if some of my deletions need to be reverted then so be it. Cheers! -- — Keithbob • Talk  • 13:33, 24 August 2013 (UTC)


 * I have had a chance to compare the two versions. I don't think it should be reverted, because a lot of that did need to be trimmed. Also, adding heresay to the article is probably a BLP violation, even if properly sourced. However, while I compared the two versions I jotted down some notes in a new section below on some factual errors, excessive trims, etc. I think probably 10-20% of the deleted stuff should be restored, but it would be better to move forward with this version. It's normal for trimming to leave "scar tissue". CorporateM (Talk) 23:50, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

X.com
I have a couple of issues with X.com. Firstly WP has a guideline not to put dot com addresses in article text. When we write about Twitter or Ebay we don't call them Twitter.com or Google.com etc. So we shouldn't be saying X.com....... unless that was the official, legal name of the company. The problem is the only sources I find about X.com are claims made by involved parties such as Elon Musk, Jeremy Stoppelman etc. If I visit the www.x.com website I find that it's now called X.commerce. Any reliable secondary sources that give the give the history of this company and clarify its name and corroborate the claims made by Musk and Stoppleman?? -- — Keithbob • Talk  • 20:55, 23 August 2013 (UTC)


 * PS this info would also be helpful to the articles on Elon Musk, PayPal etc as they have similar issues surrounding X.com. thanks!-- — Keithbob • Talk  • 21:18, 23 August 2013 (UTC)


 * I was wondering where X-commercial came from. The Paypal article covers the context in substantial depth, but mostly with very poor sources. A quick Google Books search reveals much better sources that can verify the context. They do seem to all refer to "x.com" in a way that suggests it may be the actual company name. For example, this reference says: "X.com, an online bank founded by" - it sounds like they are talking about the company, not the website. CorporateM (Talk) 21:22, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
 * After looking at multiple sources I think you are correct and I have changed the company name back to X.com in this article as well as PayPal, PayPal Mafia and Elon Musk. Thanks for your patience. -- — Keithbob • Talk  • 18:20, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

Off topic?
To my way of thinking this info (below) is not about Stoppleman and should be removed. -- — <b style= "color:#090;">Keithbob</b> • Talk  • 18:30, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Mobile apps also helped the website grow.[20] As of 2010, the company was valued at more than $145 million and had expanded into 17 countries.[3] By 2012, 33 million reviews had been posted on the site.


 * This is one of those things that were included in profile stories on him, but Wikipedia may exercise different editorial judgements than the source material. IMO, the number of reviews, countries, etc. may be too detailed and off-topic, but it becoming a public company and its current value would be worthwhile, to communicate to the reader the significance of him founding the company. CorporateM (Talk) 19:29, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Maybe it could be rephrased to be more about him and less about the company. I'll see what I can do. --<span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS,sans -serif"> — <b style= "color:#090;">Keithbob</b> • Talk  • 18:21, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
 * ✅--<span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS,sans -serif"> — <b style= "color:#090;">Keithbob</b> • Talk  • 21:38, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

More eyes
Dear CM, I'm sorry that no one responded to the request at BLPN for more eyes. Would you like to invite DGG to look over the article? Or I could invite Collect, or SoftLavender, both of whom have looked over things for me when I've asked them to. SoftLavender says she is a real life writer and editor and I find her to be neutral and fair. Thoughts? --<span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS,sans -serif"> — <b style= "color:#090;">Keithbob</b> • Talk  • 20:36, 31 August 2013 (UTC)


 * I trust you. + the GA process will bring us a second pair of eyes. CorporateM (Talk) 22:56, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
 * OK --<span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS,sans -serif"> — <b style= "color:#090;">Keithbob</b> • Talk  • 21:39, 3 September 2013 (UTC)


 * One last-minute thing that comes to mind. There are video interviews of Stoppelman in Bloomberg, with Charlie Rose and in Inc.. I wouldn't consider these reliable sources, but one of the uses of External links is for "Sites that fail to meet criteria for reliable sources yet still contain information about the subject of the article from knowledgeable sources."


 * Well, I don't think that was intended as a reason to add a bunch of primary sources where the subject talks about himself, but it would be useful for readers to have a handy link where they can hear his voice and see him speak. CorporateM (Talk) 00:33, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

New source
Haven't read it yet (will momentarily), but a new source has come out that may be useful:



CorporateM (Talk) 16:19, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

Comments
"who later became an investor in Stoppleman's company, Yelp Inc"
 * Stoppelman is a co-founder and he owns a portion of the company, but I don't know if calling it HIS company is quite right.

As co-founder and CEO Stoppleman has guided the company's growth to 33 million user reviews and a $145 million valuation.[3][10][20]
 * This new source has something that may be a bit better to replace this. From the source: "Since then Yelp (YELP) has grown into a multi-national publicly traded company with 1,700 employees and a market cap of $4 billion"

Mining a few other things in the new source that may or may not be worth including
 * "He taught himself guitar by watching videos online."
 * His brother's title at the company is VP of engineering
 * About five paragraphs down is a summary of the controversy
 * The email he sent at Paypal that resulted in him getting promoted is mentioned again

CorporateM (Talk) 01:22, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

Storage

 * Possible "further reading" item, interview in TIME:

CorporateM (Talk) 14:50, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

Possible external link
Stoppelman was recently interviewed on NPR. I think it would make a great External Link or Further Reading-type item:


 * Jeremy Stoppelman interviewed on NPR

CorporateM (Talk) 03:31, 26 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Agree. Done. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 01:07, 18 July 2015 (UTC)