Talk:Jerma985

Draft page
Some content should definitely be copied over from Draft:Jerma985, especially some infobox stuff — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thestickman391 (talk • contribs) 12:57, 17 December 2021 (UTC)

I agree. I don't understand why a separate page was made at all. The work that me and a few others did on that page should be brought over. Deathstar3548 (talk) 17:39, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

Kitboga
The Kitboga link in Associated acts links to Kitbuqa, obviously not the same guy. 99.194.19.96 (talk) 13:55, 17 December 2021 (UTC)

Article Image
Current image "Jerma985.jpg" (Jerma985 at Twitch con) should be reduced in size to better fit the infobox Vanhatn (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 23:53, 17 December 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 December 2021
Birmybermydingyfroot (talk) 15:44, 18 December 2021 (UTC) can i edit
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 16:12, 18 December 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 December 2021 (2)
Fix TYPO* on 3rd line of Early Life from "Jermey" to "Jeremy". Change from "Jermey immediately went to work as a freelance wedding photographer" to "Jeremy immediately went to work as a freelance wedding photographer"

Remove that he has had "brief stunts as a waiter" in "Graduating with a B.S. in Communications with a 2.6 GPA, Jermey immediately went to work as a freelance wedding photographer[7], along with having brief stunts as a waiter and a substitute teacher". He has said he has worked as a waiter in the past, but in an interview reiterates that he has never worked as a waiter... possibly the former was simply a comedic bit he was doing on a livestream. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSLf7uuMFuA&t=3638s "I've never been a waiter before!"

Change instances of "Jeremy Harrington" to "Jeremy Elbertson", by his own admission, in a statement on an interview with Tyler McVicker Sep 17 2020 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSLf7uuMFuA&t=3300s

There has been an unconfirmed profile created in 2007 on a voice acting portfolio site under the name "Jeremy Harrington" that may have belonged to Jeremy, and in a past livestream he has shown a certificate he states belongs to him that was visibly presented to one "Jeremy Harrington". However he does not currently refer to himself as Jeremy Harrington, and has performed under the surname and refers to himself as "Elbertson" professionally during his twitch entertainer career since at least 2018. Jinshilhana (talk) 21:51, 18 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Pictogram voting wait.svg Already done – AssumeGoodWraith  (talk | contribs)  10:48, 24 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Typo already fixed. – AssumeGoodWraith  (talk | contribs)  10:48, 24 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Semi-protection-unlocked.svg Not done: The page's protection level has changed since this request was placed. You should now be able to edit the page yourself. If you still seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 14:25, 25 December 2021 (UTC)

Elbertson or Harrington?
There seems to be some disagreement on whether Jerma's real last name is Elbertson or Harrington. Therefore I think it should be discussed here before further edits are made to his name in the main article.

When Jerma was asked about his real last name during a September 17, 2020 [//www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSLf7uuMFuA&t=3265s live streamed interview], he insisted that it was Elbertson and that Harrington was a "fake last name—someone made it up years ago and I'm just like what the fuck are you talking about". However, the first known use of Harrington is cited to be from a [//voice123.com/voice-actor/jeremyharrington Voice123 account] created on May 5, 2005 under the name Jeremy Harrington. Despite it having voice samples that sound very similar to Jerma, we can only speculate as to whether or not it belongs to him, and it is not our jobs to conduct original analyses of potential evidence. Additionally, Jerma often uses Elbertson rather than Harrington as his last name in his self-published works (e.g., the [//www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbF08EWoVgc "Meet the Elbertsons"] video and the use of "Elbertson and Sons, LLC" on [//www.jerma985.com/ his website]). Given this info, I think it is clear that his last name should be written here as Elbertson as that is what confirmed sources point to. CoronalMassAffection (talk) 22:54, 20 December 2021 (UTC)

I think given the voice123 account, it's more likely Harrington is his real name, and as of right now with his comments stating the name is fake, he's just trying to keep his name private ArtVDiaries (talk) 15:41, 23 December 2021 (UTC)


 * That could be true but I do agree with OP in that asserting so in the article counts as original research. Consisename (talk) 20:41, 25 December 2021 (UTC)


 * The voice123 account is *already* linked on the page. If that's "original research", then it should be removed from the article as well. If that's fine, then why can't we rely on the name from it? TheRealOj32 (talk) 23:17, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
 * I have gone ahead and removed references to it. CoronalMassAffection (talk) 02:14, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

He once held a certificate in the camera on stream, which he got from breaking the record on an arcade machine when he was a kid. The name on the certificate clearly read "Harrington" as his last name so it is 99% safe to assume, that this is his real name. He made clear however, as it was already pointed out above, that he prefers to use "Elbertson" online.2003:E5:BF44:2266:5508:988C:9597:255E (talk) 16:30, 28 December 2021 (UTC)
 * I agree with this conclusion. It's extremely likely that Harrington is Jerma985's real last name, and Elbertson is a pseudonym used for privacy. That being said, consult WP:BLPPRIVACY. Not enough sources have stated his real name to assume that the aforementioned section of the BLP applies. elijahpepe@wikipedia 01:27, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Two video games have credited him as Jeremy Harrington, which I would consider credible and plentiful enough to prove his real name. However, I think the main reason to exclude Harrington from the article (and, in fact, any version of "Jeremy Lastname") is that his real name is not relevant to his notability. The distinction between the public personality Jerma and the private person Jeremy Harrington is not significant enough to draw attention to considering his low-notability overall. The article should just refer to him as Jerma985 or Jerma. Whatever the case, Elbertson seems like a clear pseudonym to protect his actual family name and shouldn't be included as his legitimate family name. 86.50.93.94 (talk) 19:47, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

I'm not sure if MobyGames counts as a reliable source but that website has him listed as harrington for the voice credits he did [//www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,602503/ here], presumably one could check the credits of these games to confirm — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.6.147.154 (talk) 06:54, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

Jerma stated in 2005 his real last name is Harrington on Newgrounds. "Jerma = Jeremy. Friends call me it. My real name is Jeremy Harrington." CommanderHannah (talk) 02:59, 15 April 2022 (UTC)


 * Based on the above discussion, I've come to the conclusion that there is a scarcity of reliable sources referring to the subject by either name. Many of the stronger sources for "Harrington" are original research or primary sources (while any reasonable person might look at them and assume Harrington is his real last name, non-secondary sources don't meet the verifiability threshold of Wikipedia), yet there's even more reason to be doubtful of it being "Elbertson" in spite of the existence of at least one secondary source using the name. I've decided, somewhat boldly and somewhat based on the consensus (or lack thereof) from this discussion, that we should be referring to the subject simply by the pseudonyms "Jerma985" and "Jerma" for now. We cannot know at the moment if the "Elbertson" name is intended to protect his privacy and hide his real family name, or if it's just a funny nickname he made up for himself. In any case, Jerma is the name he's known as in most reliable sources, so it's safe to continue using that. We can revisit this discussion some time in the future if necessary, but for now there's no need to include a real life name.  Vanilla  Wizard  💙 18:47, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Then why not just do what other Wikipedia articles do and put; "Jermey Harrington, known professionally as Jerma Elbertson and Jerma985"?
 * All this talk of "privacy" and what not is completely pointless. Caitlyn Marie Jenner for example. Formerly known as William Bruce Jenner, their Wikipedia article has both names listed even though Bruce is their dead name. I thought the point of Wikipedia was to provide factual information? The recent change of "citing a NPR article" is foolish. Mynamejegg11 (talk) 18:12, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I think it's obvious that his last name is Harrington, but I think Jeremy's insistence that it isn't would fall under the "intentionally concealed" bit of LPNAME (that's my reading of it at least, feel free to disagree), which'd mean that neither Harrington nor Elbertson is appropriate for the article. This is without going into whether it's valuable to include a surname at all (I don't think it is).
 * TL;DR: I agree, it should probably say "Jerma" until he either starts openly going by Harrington (assuming that's his real surname) or he provides more verifiable proof that his name is Elbertson (ditto). Santumerino (talk) 20:32, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
 * What about just not presenting "Jeremy Elbertson" as Jerma's true name? It is absolutely a name that he goes by just as Jerma is a name that he goes by. I agree that there is significant ambiguity going on with the name but it is a pretty relevant part of his online presence that should be mentioned on the page. Something like "Jerma985, also known as Jeremy Elbertson or just Jerma" could probably suffice. Kenny2B (talk) 23:51, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 December 2021
I would like to replace the photo on the page, given the, with , which is stated to have been provided by photographer. ArtVDiaries (talk) 15:41, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

Addition: I would also like to see if it's worth adding any further information about his further influences on internet culture, such as the "When the impostor is sus" and "Incredible AI deepfake technology compiles every serial killer into one man" image macros? ArtVDiaries (talk) 18:35, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 December 2021
Fix the image. Its heresy against the Jerma lore to not use the correct image when representing Jeremy. 31.121.173.154 (talk) 03:43, 24 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. – AssumeGoodWraith  (talk | contribs)  12:06, 24 December 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 December 2021 (2)
I would like to add to the article, given how it is stated to have been provided by the photographer.

I would also like to add a section specifically regarding his larger cultural influence on the internet such as the "When the impostor is sus" and "Incredible AI deepfake technology compiles every serial killer into one man" image macros, as well as the "Rat Movie", usage of his audio on tiktok, etc etc. ArtVDiaries (talk) 21:17, 24 December 2021 (UTC)


 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. – AssumeGoodWraith  (talk | contribs)  06:52, 25 December 2021 (UTC)

When the Impostor is Sus
Is it worth mentioning that meme? It's on the Among Us page and went viral. Definitely increased Jerma's viewership and public awareness Toonsip (talk) 18:56, 26 December 2021 (UTC)


 * Be bold and add it yourself. – AssumeGoodWraith  (talk | contribs) 00:23, 27 December 2021 (UTC)
 * I know Jerma did gain a LOT of notoriety from the amogus memes involving him, but some reliable sourcing is needed to back up those claims. Blake Gripling (talk) 05:46, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

Is Know Your Meme a reliable source? If so it shouldn't be a problem. Rajdooot (talk) 01:04, 8 January 2022 (UTC)
 * It relies on user contributions, so, no. Blake Gripling (talk) 01:45, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

Would using his own commentary on the meme and how it has impacted his channel be sufficient? Or would this violate WP:PRIMARY? Prefacing it with "He credits much of his recent popularity to..." might work without a secondary source. CoronalMassAffection (talk) 04:47, 17 May 2022 (UTC)


 * @CoronalMassAffection: I don't think this would be appropriate per WP:DUE, which says we cover events based on how much they are covered in reliable sources. In this case, his commentary shouldn't be used solely to support the importance of something, but can be used to supplement coverage by secondary sources. Yee no   (talk) 21:22, 21 May 2022 (UTC)

Better sources for indie game VA work
I moved over the references from Draft:Jerma985 for his voice acting work on indie games. I believe stronger sources should be sought out. Deathstar3548 (talk) 17:45, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

Confusing edit reversions
I barely know how to use this part of Wikipedia as I'm normally just a reader, so excuse me if I'm doing something wrong in this talk page. Last night, I spent a little over 2 hours editing Jerma's page only to have another user repeatedly revert my edits, and I have no idea why. I see no issues with any of the edits I provided, and I feel like my time has been wasted for no good reason. Can anyone provide me a reason for why they're being removed and if it can be restored? Edit: I see now that all my edits have been preserved except for the profile image I provided, which is better than I had originally thought, though I don't understand the problem with the picture. Edit: I think the issue was copyright stuff, which I attempted to sort out with a new upload of the image, but I'm still not 100% sure it's good. If anyone has any recommendations on what to do if it becomes an issue again, I'm all ears. --Trotrwastaken (talk) 18:50, 15 February 2022 (UTC)Trotrwastaken


 * Hi, I reverted some of your edits, a special anti-vandal bot also reverted some. Thank you for your efforts in improving the page . There are just some elements of your edit that need changing before they can stay up. All edits to pages have to follow our numerous policies. Several of which need to be observed for your edits to stay up, including: WP:EXTERNAL, which specifies which external links are allowed; WP:Original Research which says that we can’t use our own research to write an article, instead we rely on what is written in WP:Reliable Sources to inform what we include in the article. A good thing to remember is that every edit to a page is saved, so you will never lose your hard work. If someone reverts, or removes your edits, they will usually leave and edit summary to explain their decision. Then you can revert their revert, or you can talk it here to the talk page to discuss the edit. Collaboration is important. What you need to avoid is repeatably reverting, because that is not collaborative and can result in you being blocked from editing. Sometimes rather than making one massive edit, publish one small element at a time. This way it’s easier to revert only the problematic areas of the edit, because most of your changes were very constructive. I will be able to properly explain which elements of the edit are problematic soon. For the time being the edits can stay up, unless another editor comes along and does something (in which case don’t simply revert, just ask the same questions here). Thanks, Pabsoluterince (talk) 21:38, 15 February 2022 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the response, making smaller edits to avoid large reversions makes sense. I took another stab at uploading the image again this time with different copyright info, which I hope is sufficient. If it's not, I have direct contact with the creators of the image and can get permission if needed. Trotrwastaken (talk) 21:46, 15 February 2022 (UTC)


 * Yeah. The image was good but it needs to be compliant with copyright laws. There are some cases where you can claim that the image is fair use but you will have to read about that on our sister project commons. Attempting to simply redo any action without first understanding why it was removed is disruptive. You have likely been left a response on your talk page as to why the image was deleted, give that a read before reuploading any images. Pabsoluterince (talk) 21:53, 15 February 2022 (UTC)


 * Alright. I know the image is fine to use, I'm just not sure which options to select when uploading it. Any suggestions on how to do it properly? Trotrwastaken (talk) 00:44, 16 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Read through WP:NFCCP and ensure that the image meets all these points. Then upload the file as a non-free image. Pabsoluterince (talk) 01:55, 16 February 2022 (UTC)


 * Sounds good, just one small snag. I think this previous version I uploaded is preventing me from submitting a new one as it's a copy https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Elbertson_during_the_%22Who_Will_Replace_ME%3F%22_stream.png I don't know how to go about the speedy deletion, do you think you could assist me with that? I really appreciate your guidance so far, this is very convoluted for a new editor. Trotrwastaken (talk) 02:58, 16 February 2022 (UTC)
 * I am unfortunately not the most knowledgeable for file related questions. Currently there exists a copy of the file hosted on Wikipedia here. The problem is that you are licensing the photo with the wrong license. I will attempt to fix that. Pabsoluterince (talk) 21:53, 17 February 2022 (UTC)

Reversion
Hi. So generally we follow the bold, revert, discuss cycle of collaboration. An editor makes a WP:BOLD edit, then if a revert occurs, you discuss the edit on the talk page. I reverted your edit for the following reasons, it contained external links in the body of the article and it contained unnacceptable links (i.e. those to youtube). You removed editor comments. You removed maintenance templates. You removed references. You added unencyclopedic language (like dabbled). Unless you have gathered WP:consensus for these changes, they are not acceptable. I am going to revert your edit, if you would like to adress those problems then add the changes back in, section by section, that would be appropriate. Pabsoluterince (talk) 02:16, 16 February 2022 (UTC)


 * @Pabsoluterince I think I've been misunderstanding your previous messages. Is there any way we could talk in an instant messages medium? This feels like writing back and forth business emails, and we'd probably be able to hash this out in 15 minutes or less with a faster convo. This is all a lot of info to take in and parse through, and conversing in a quicker manner would make this all a lot easier, if possible. Trotrwastaken (talk) 19:30, 17 February 2022 (UTC)
 * There's no rush on Wikipedia unfortunately. There is a lot of policy about correct article procedures that you can't be expected to know. What typically happens, is that when your edits do not conform to those policies, they are reverted "per example policy". Then you have the opportunity to read the policy and either change your edit to conform with the policy, or start a discussion surrounding the interpretation of the policy on the talk page and so on. Your edit violated several policies at once (given it was a very large edit), so I informed you of the policies that it violated. It's up to you to read those pages and change your edit, but if you would like me to explain any of them I would be happy to on your talk page. Pabsoluterince (talk) 01:32, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

Images?
There are no images of Jerma anywhere on the article. Does anybody have any ideas for the pictures that could be used? 2603:8000:8B01:2516:5038:30EC:4A57:CF2 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 04:37, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Potentially his youtube logo could be used if uploaded as a Wikipedia file citing fair use copyright policy. There have been a couple attempts to use non-free images of Jerma under fair use, but they have been removed, failing non free content policy #1 Pabsoluterince (talk) 09:49, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

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 * Jerma985main.jpg

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 * Elbertson during the "Who Will Replace ME?" stream.png

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 * Jeremy Elbertson.jpg

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 * Jerma2022.png

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 * Jerma985A.jpg

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 * Jerma.png

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 * Jerma.png

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 * Jerma at the streamer awards.png

Associated Acts?
The people in the 'associated acts' section (under the Youtube information) are mostly people he has worked with in his Twitch era rather than Youtube era. This seems slightly misleading. Should this be moved under the Twitch Information section? Or should there be a separate 'associated acts' section for the Twitch information? At the moment it is a mix of people from his early Youtube days (MLC St3alth) and much more recently (Ludwig, who he didn't interact with on Youtube). Weeevil (talk) 16:35, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
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 * Jerma985.webp

Retirement
I must ask whether it is worth mentioning Jeremy's current "soft retirement"? I feel as though it might hold some relevance, seeing as it affects his current stream schedule and, to a degree, content. However, I don't know that there are any mentions of this outside of Discord messages and stream VODs, both of which I feel are not trustworthy sources PlasteredCryptid (talk) 12:58 PM, 05 January 2024 (UTC)


 * Some other outside sources about it will likely come when he decides to create his next big project. It may be worth writing something in the Twitch section and then just using a post online written by him, or using an archive of the stream timestamped, explaining his "soft retirement" as a temporary source for now. DavGxyz (talk) 02:08, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

His last name...?
Are there any reliable sources that use that name? Judging from its removal, I'd say "no". But would it fall under WP:ABOUTSELF? There was the concern of it being a joke name brought up by Vanilla Wizard in an edit summary that wouldn't be surprising considering how much Jerma uses gaslighting in his streams.  Liliana UwU  (talk / contributions) 19:54, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * To recap the previous discussion, there's not very strong sources for either "Harrington" or "Elbertson." "Harrington" seems to be the more believable of the two, not least because it's a more well-documented surname compared to Elbertson which simply redirects to this page. But I would argue it's plausible that the confusion is the whole point. The confusion over the last names is a fairly strong indication that he'd like his real last name to remain a secret. This should be respected per WP:BLPNAME: "When the name of a private individual has not been widely disseminated or has been intentionally concealed, such as in certain court cases or occupations, it is often preferable to omit it, especially when doing so does not result in a significant loss of context." His occupation allows him to be known by a pseudonym as opposed to a real name, and we have reason to believe he would like it to stay that way. Many of the sources cited for either name are also primary sources that editors dug around to find, which raises WP:BLPPRIVACY concerns. In the previous discussion, editors speculated that "Elbertson" may be his stage name, while "Harrington" is his real name. Truth is, we can't ever know for sure, and it's better to not display speculative information. The best course of action is to omit the last name, since "Jerma"/"Jerma985" is the only name we really need for this page.  Vanilla  Wizard  💙 21:27, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

Potential image source
Would it be possible to add an image of Jerma from his 2018 video "100+ FREE Jerma985 Green Screen Effects for Your Movie"? I can't seem to find any info on its definite copyright status, but the clips are explicitly stated to be free and were uploaded with the intention of being used by outside individuals. Smileyissleepy (talk) 07:15, 21 July 2024 (UTC)