Talk:Jeroboam Sacrificing to Idols

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Jeroboam
I believe the “Subject” description is incorrect; isn’t Jeroboam the man on the left instead of the right? If so, the cropped picture in the page for Jeroboam would be misleading. 04:36, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
 * No, "The moment depicted is when Jeroboam, at right in the white turban, is about to sacrifice to pagan idols, when an unnamed prophet (standing, at left) intercedes:[4]". Why do you "believe" otherwise? Johnbod (talk) 15:17, 6 April 2022 (UTC)


 * I used to think that too @Johnbod, but after consulting various sources I’m not so sure. To me it doesn’t seem fitting for a king to be seized while performing a sacrifice ritual, rather, it appears that the man being held on the right is a prophet stopped by Jeroboam‘s order. After consulting the book referenced at the bottom of the article I am confident in my hypothesis (see pp. 53-54 of [Https://books.google.com/books?id=PuXYe0KadNIC&printsec=frontcover&source=gb+mobile+entity&newbks=1&newbks+redir=0&hl=en&focus=searchwithinvolume&gbmsitb=1#v=onepage&q=Jeroboam&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=PuXYe0KadNIC&printsec=frontcover&source=gb_mobile_entity&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&hl=en&focus=searchwithinvolume&gbmsitb=1#v=onepage&q=Jeroboam&f=false]): “Jeroboam, the first king of Israel, was about to make an offering to the Golden Calf when a prophet came before him; when he gave the order to arrest the prophet his hand 'dried up' […] the sacrifice was a profanation” (Rosenberg, Pierre, Fragonard, exhibition catalogue, 1988: Galeries Nationales Du Grand Palais, Paris, September 24, 1987 – January 4, 1988, the Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York, February 2 – May 8, 1988 p. 54, online).
 * Consider also these (rather informal) sources:
 * [Https://www.bibleodyssey.org/en/tools/image-gallery/k/kingdom-of-israel+https://www.bibleodyssey.org+›+toolsJeroboam+Offering+Sacrifice+for+the+Idol+-+Bible+Odyssey]https://www.bibleodyssey.org/en/tools/image-gallery/k/kingdom-of-israel
 * [Https://www.thehistoryofart.org/jean-honore-fragonard/jeroboam-sacrificing-to-idols/ https://www.thehistoryofart.org/jean-honore-fragonard/jeroboam-sacrificing-to-idols/]
 * [Https://www.wga.hu/html+m/f/fragonar/father/1/01jerobo.html+https://www.wga.hu+›+html+m+›+fatherJeroboam+Offering+Sacrifice+for+the+Idol+by+FRAGONARD,+Jean-Honoré]https://www.wga.hu/html_m/f/fragonar/father/1/01jerobo.html
 * I find the following explanations compelling:
 * “Jeroboam, first king of northern kingdom of Israel, on the far left, hands raised in prayer. The right side of the composition is far more dynamic in comparison to the statuesque figure of Jeroboam, with officials restraining the man who is to be sacrificed. In the center of the composition, one can make out a golden calf in the background, one of the symbols of God that Jeroboam erected in the temples he built...” [2]
 * “The scene in front of us captures the moment when confusion ensues as a prophet is placed under arrest for speaking out of turn.” [3]
 * May I ask what your source is?
 * Pepperoomph (talk) 06:56, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Rosenberg obviously, I think he is clear enough. The only one of your non-RS sources to clearly identify Jeroboam as on the left is the dubious www.bibleodyssey.org, which thinks the man in the turban is the intended victim of a human sacrifice, which is OR nonsense. You need to ask: whose hand is stretched out at the centre of the painting? Who is elaborately dressed? Who is standing at the altar? And so on. You should compare the earlier depiction of the subject at the bottom too. Johnbod (talk) 14:25, 7 April 2022 (UTC)


 * Apologies for the delay, we clearly are interpreting Rosenberg differently, but I appreciate where you’re coming from, thank you for elaborating on your position. I will attempt to look for more unambiguous and reliable sources and come back if I find anything. Pepperoomph (talk) 06:00, 10 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Good luck with that! The king is not being "seized" but supported by his attendants, as he is an elderly man in a state of shock. Johnbod (talk) 13:57, 10 April 2022 (UTC)