Talk:Jerzy Franciszek Kulczycki

Untitled
We all marvel at the Polish-Austrian ties....
 * Outside of Kulczycki, Sobieski and Galicia there weren't so many of them.. Halibutt 02:54, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Why the "Ukrainian origin"? Pretty soon everyone will be claiming some "foreign origin" for every Pole. It's ridiculous. This is one of the many reasons why history articles on Wikipedia are of shoddy quality, something that has become very obvious to me in many of those relevant to Poland. I appreciate the difficulties that many of the Polish contributors encounter from historically-challenged and agenda-pushing neighbors. I can't stand this idea of "comprimising on the truth." --24.91.40.69 17:03, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Why Polish?
I insist that Kulczycki must be recognized as Ukrainian. Besides his Ukrainian origin (by the way, Sobieski also was born in Ukraine) he was an Orthodox while all Polish or "polonized" noblemen were Catholics or Greek Catholics. The fact Ukraine was a part of Commonwealth at the time doesn't change anything: I guess it would be insulting for a Pole to hear Mickiewicz was Russian and not a Pole just because that Polish region was a part of Russian Empire at the moment. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.223.130.110 (talk) 11:06, August 28, 2007 (UTC)

Nationality at that time was something different. Mickiewicz for real was Lithuanian (now he would be called Belarussian), as well as Kosciuszko, Matejko and so on. Country was one, Commonwealth of Both Nations, nations were diffrent in present sense. But Mickiewicz spended many years of his life abroad and always was patriotic (sometimes "freaky";), it`s different story how Ukrainians were treated in Polish-"Lithuanian" Commonwealth and how everyone was treated in Russian Empire. As for me (as a Pole) Kulczycki can be called Ukrainian, but what about Wiśniowiecki (Vysnevecky)? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.77.107.138 (talk) 00:38, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Does this help?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-su0ICIWbo0 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.193.109.218 (talk) 21:09, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

I "insist" that the author of this note is mistaken. As Wellington said "being born in the stable does not mean that you are a horse" (he was born in Dublin, which will not make him an Irishman). Kulczycki was Polish nobleman with lands in the Ukraine. And you are contradicting yourself when writing about Mickiewicz... And mind you, at the time of Vienna Victory, Rzeczpospolita was a Commonwealth of THREE Nations, not two. This historical fact is very often overlooked. But I will gladly share with my Ukrainian friends the honor of Kulczycki's famed invention of cappucino (the idea of adding milk and honey surely came from the land of his youth and it was Ukraine). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Franky Furbo (talk • contribs) 07:40, 11 June 2008 (UTC) :Rzeczpospolita was a Commonwealth of THREE Nations, not two - that is de facto, but not de jure. Officially it included only Poland and Lithuania. But even if you are right, the text says of Polish szlachta, not szlachta of Commonwealth. And what is the contradiction with Mickiewicz?77.122.107.222 (talk) 00:29, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Stanisław Lem is a Ukrainian too
.. because he born in Lwow - (now Ukraine). Kulczycki was a citizen of Commonwealth of Both Nations. In this country lived many nations even Lipka Tatars. He was a Pole of Ukrainian descend - a member of Polish szlachta of Ukrainian origin. Religion doesn`t mean anything. Lipka Tatars followed Sunni branch of Islam for example. Now Poland is catholic country but before war Poland was also a nation of many religions. In 1921 16,057,229 Poles (approx. 62.5%) were Roman (Latin) Catholics, 3,031,057 citizens of Poland (approx. 11.8%) were Eastern Rite Catholics (mostly Ukrainian Greek Catholics and Armenian Rite Catholics), 2,815,817 (approx. 10.95%) were Greek Orthodox, 2,771,949 (approx. 10.8%) were Jewish, and 940,232 (approx. 3.7%) were Protestants (mostly Lutheran Evangelical).(Pernambuko (talk) 04:46, 18 March 2008 (UTC))


 * Indeed the modern concept of nationality didn't exist, but that doesn't mean that there was no ethnicity. Many Ukrainian nobles moved upwards in society by adopting the Catholic faith and polonizing their names, but I don't think any Poles belonged to the Orthodox faith. (Apparently the Vienna Historical Museum has a sign stating that Kulchytsky was Armenian!)


 * There's a decent short biography of Kulchytsky from a Ukrainian point of view at Den’, although it is framed by a rather political article: Whither goest thou, Ukrainian?


 * Subtelny (1988) writes about the Ukrainian szlachta, mentioning Kulchytsky's family name on p 84.


 * Anyway, the introduction seems fine the way it stands, and I don't think anyone here has any specific problems with it (I've added the Ukrainian name Yuriy-Frants Kulchytsky for identification, as is done on Danish and German Wikipedias). The maintenance tag was placed over nine months ago by an anon who has been inactive since.  I'll remove it—feel free to replace it if there is still a real problem with the article's content, but then please explain specifically how it should be improved. —Michael Z. 2008-06-12 16:24 z 


 * Ukrainian name is no problem of course. Poland in this time was multinational country of many nations and religions. For example Adam Mickiewicz the biggest polish poet is known as a lithuanian biggest poet Adomas Mickevičius. He wrote "Lithuania, my country! You are as good health;" There was Lipkas, Ukrainians, Poles, Lithuanians, Skots and Armenians too. Is not a problem for my to show the Ukrainian descent of Kulczycki.. but He was also a citizen of Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealtch who is known as Poland. He was a spy of John III Sobieski. So He has a polish Citizenship and that`s my point. About Poles and orthodox faith: In Poland still existed Polish Orthodox Church before war was many Poles who was "prawosławni". In Poland was even a special Uhlan Tatar or Orthodox formations. Tatars sweared on Koran for example. They was very brave soldiers and big polish patriots. After the fall of Poland in 1939, the Polish Tatars in the Vilno based 13th Cavalry Regiment were one of the last Polish Army units recorded carrying on the fight against the German aggressors. So catholic Poland is now and it`s not Poles choise. It`s a effect of Yalta Conference. [User:Pernambuko] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pernambuko (talk • contribs) 08:04, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

By that logic we can state that every citizen of Commonwealth could be considered a Pole at those times.77.122.107.222 (talk) 00:33, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Funny discusions
Franjo Đura Kolčić was a Serbian. He wasnt born in some Ukraninian Sambor, but in todays SERBIAN city Sombor, then part of Austro-Hungary or (and) Ottoman empire. --92.37.26.220 (talk) 09:30, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

P.S.

Jerzy Michajlović as named in text (as his servat) was Jovan Mihajlović, Serbian, and not some Jerzy. Polens and Ukrainians didnt know what coffe is, since it came from Turks upward to Europe, and Serbians were in coffee bussiness some time before Polens and other part of Europe on other side of Ottoman border. So Serbian introduce coffee in Wien since they knew what were the grains. --92.37.26.220 (talk) 09:44, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
 * You'd need to source this, RELIABLY.Galassi (talk) 19:29, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Good source for this article
From a historical journal. written by a historian at the Institute of History of the Ukrainian Academy of Sciences.Faustian (talk) 15:13, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Turkish or Ottoman?
Sorry to interrupt the discussion on this guy's ethnicity but did he know Ottoman, the language of the Ottoman court or Turkish the language of the rural areas? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.123.44.40 (talk) 10:59, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Nationality
In Polish Wikipedia they state that he was a Polish nobleman. In Poland overall, he is regarded to as Polish. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.176.144.185 (talk) 06:55, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Kulchytsky is from a well-known Ukrainian noble family from Sambir, forma village populated by members of this family. Western Ukrainian nobility contains more details about these people. He was Polish by citizenship (just as many Poles were histroically Austrian, or Russian by citizenship) but not by ethnicity.Faustian (talk) 13:45, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

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