Talk:Jesse Lawson/GA1

GA Review
The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.''

Reviewer: Krisgabwoosh (talk · contribs) 07:02, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Salutations! I'll be the reviewer of this nomination. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 07:02, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I'll get started on this a little later this week. Thanks! ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 01:05, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

Result: Passed. Congratulations! Your article meets all the criteria to be included as a Good Article. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 18:09, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you kindly, and thanks for making that last edit. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 18:11, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

Criteria
Good Article Status - Review Criteria   		A good article is&mdash;  :
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 * (a) ; and
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Review
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Discussion

 * General
 * Article would do well to be better organized and more linear. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 07:58, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
 * ✅ All issues addressed. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 18:16, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Infobox
 * Image caption could be expanded, perhaps noting that it was taken at the Washington Conference.
 * Add "U.S." to places of birth and death. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 07:58, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Birth date should be reformatted using Template:Birth date. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 07:58, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Death date should be reformatted using Template:Death date and age. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 07:58, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
 * The occupation section could be alphabetized and Template:Hlist should be used. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 07:58, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Replace "4" with "Four" in the children section. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 07:58, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
 * The names of his parents could be added using the parents parameter. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 07:58, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
 * The fact he was a Republican can be added using the party parameter. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 07:58, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
 * ✅ I took care of all of this. I left his parents out of the infobox, as they're not notable. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:41, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Lead
 * Replace "African American" with just "American". Krisgabwoosh (talk) 07:58, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Rest of the lead could do with being expanded, including less about his degree and more about his political activism. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 07:58, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
 * ✅ This is all set. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 22:18, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Family and education
 * Right off the bat, it would be preferable to cite specific page numbers for each claim using Template:Harvard citation no brackets rather than citing the entire book. This is especially important for citations one and five which are used multiple times. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 07:58, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
 * , the issue I'm having with this, while I try and work it out, is that the suggested use is with a Notes section with a reflist template, and references placed manually in the reference section. That doesn't work with the reference style I've been using, as it will move all the references to the notes section, which is undesirable. I have the page ranges already for both of those books, one being fourteen pages, and the other seven. It might be easier to just use named references for each specific page information is found on? ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 17:39, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Combining both regular references and harvard citations into the same reflist is fine and doesn't preclude the article from being granted GA status. (Take the article "Germán Busch" for example.) It's preferable for direct claims to cite a specific pages, especially when the text's page range is quite large. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 17:59, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
 * How large is "quite large?" The largest range is fourteen pages. Luckily, I just saw on the help desk, so that should work. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 18:03, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
 * While not my personal preference, using should work perfectly fine. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 18:09, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
 * All pages cited, I believe. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 19:01, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Perfect. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 17:10, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe "parent's" rather than "parents'" should be used. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 07:58, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I think it's correct as parents, as it's the possessive of parents. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 17:33, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Who is W. M. McGough? Provide relation if available. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 07:58, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I spent a fair amount of time searching for anything about him. The source refers to him as a Commodore, but even still I wasn't able to find anything to provide further context. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 17:35, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Maybe something like "...he moved to Plainfield, New Jersey, where US Navy Commodore W. M. McGough took over his education."? Krisgabwoosh (talk) 18:02, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
 * He moved there with McGough, per the sourcing I found. "went to Plainsfield, N.J., with Commodore W. M. McGough, by whom he was educated." I also don't know if he was a US Navy Commodore, or that was a title as a merchant marine, or everyone just called him "Commodore" because he wore a jaunty hat. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 18:06, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Good point, maybe just add the Commodore title to what's already in the text. At the very least, it gives a slight hint at who he was beyond just some guy Lawson moved with. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 18:10, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Paragraphs two and one can be combined into a single paragraph. The beginning of paragraph two should use "Lawson" rather than "he" and the latter has been used multiple times in the previous sentence. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 07:58, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Replace "earned" with "graduated with". Krisgabwoosh (talk) 07:58, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Remove "degree" as it's unnecessary. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 07:58, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
 * What does "commencement" mean in this context. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 07:58, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
 * It's just another word for graduation in this context, and it was what the school referred to it as, but I adjusted to graduation ceremony for clarity. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 17:48, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Replace "he" with "Lawson" in "he went on". Krisgabwoosh (talk) 07:58, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
 * What kind of special lectures? Krisgabwoosh (talk) 07:58, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
 * There's not a ton of detail in the source, Lawson kept current with social issues by attending, from 1901 to 1905, a series of special lectures as a member of the American Academy of Political and Social Science at the University of Pennsylvania I've added back social issues to the prose, although I'm slightly concerned about close paraphrasing. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 17:51, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
 * That works. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 18:06, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Replace "Lawson" with "Coakley" in "Rosetta Lawson". Krisgabwoosh (talk) 07:58, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Even though I've used the nee template for her maiden name? ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 17:44, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Never mind then; don't know how I missed that. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 18:12, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Easy to miss stuff, I found a couple typos both of us missed while I was doing the copy edits. After my last article made GA I found a few typos there too. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 18:15, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
 * The first and second sentences or the first and third sentences can be merged here. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 07:58, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Add a bit of information on Rosetta's occupation. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 07:58, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
 * The entire final paragraph can be combined with the first two for a single paragraph. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 07:58, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
 * ✅ Copy edits done, couple things replied to specifically. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 20:20, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Career
 * The commas after "years", "May", and "Representatives" are unnecessary. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 07:58, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
 * In the second paragraph, there should be a comma after "D.C.". Krisgabwoosh (talk) 07:58, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Everything after "sociology" should be a separate sentence. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 07:58, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
 * In the second sentence of the final paragraph, "the" in "the founding", "of" in "of the", and "as" in "as president" can all be removed. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 07:58, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Add a comma after "tuition". Krisgabwoosh (talk) 07:58, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
 * ✅ All set. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 18:22, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Activism and politics
 * The opening sentence should be merged with the rest of the paragraph. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 07:58, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
 * "Congress" in "getting congress" should be capitalized. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 07:58, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Instead of "this led, in 1902" use "In 1902, this led". Krisgabwoosh (talk) 07:58, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Replace "writing" with "drafting". Krisgabwoosh (talk) 07:58, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Add "the" before "best means". Krisgabwoosh (talk) 07:58, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
 * "And Lawson, with Murray, testified" doesn't flow very well. Consider "with Lawson and Murray testifying". Krisgabwoosh (talk) 07:58, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Replace "to" with "into" in "to law". Krisgabwoosh (talk) 07:58, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Move "in his capacity with the AAC" and replace "would" with something in the past tense. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 07:58, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
 * At the beginning of paragraph three, replace "he" with "Lawson". Krisgabwoosh (talk) 07:58, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
 * The comma after "Society" is unnecessary. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 07:58, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Remove commas between "the racial problem". Krisgabwoosh (talk) 07:58, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Shorten "list of the membership" to "membership list". Krisgabwoosh (talk) 07:58, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
 * The comma after "1903" is unnecessary. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 07:58, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
 * What kind of substantive discourse? Krisgabwoosh (talk) 07:58, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Described. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 20:19, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Add a comma after "after the conference". Krisgabwoosh (talk) 07:58, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Susan Carle's quotes would be better served as a blockquote using Template:Blockquote. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 07:58, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Only "inchoate and disparate, pointing to the still substantially unsettled status of strategic choices for a racial justice campaign for the new century" is her quote. The other quotes are from Lawson's book describing the conference. The two quotes I chose to provide the counterpoint to Carle's description come from both Hill and Carle.
 * Hill - With regard to solving the race problem per se, the Conference unequivocally found that: "As solutions to the race problem we regard colonization, expatriation and segregation as unworthy of further consideration"
 * Carle - The participants largely agreed on some basic starting points, including that "As solutions to the race problem we regard colonization, expatriation and segregation as unworthy of further consideration" and "[we] have abiding faith in the principles of human rights established in the Declaration of Independence and the national Constitution"
 * I wrote it this way to provide the context that although there were widely differing views and ideas, and the conference didn't accomplish much in the way of setting a grand strategy, there was broad agreement on some basics. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 18:50, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I see. It's still quite confusing, as it appears the second quote is an extension of the first. It needs to be better differentiated or perhaps the key information in the second sentence could be paraphrased without directly quoting. It's also not quite clear what "for the new century" exactly means. I assume Carle is referring to the 20th century. Perhaps replacing it with [in the 20th century] would make it clearer, though this is optional. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 18:26, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I rewrote the quote section, is that more clear? ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 19:24, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
 * The beginning of paragraph talks about something that happened in 1895 and should thus be moved to earlier in the article. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 07:58, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
 * The section is currently divided, broadly, into four paragraphs organized by topic. The first is his role in politics and law, the second is his sociological work, the third is his work highlighting progress since emancipation, and the celebration of emancipation, and the last is some of the other causes he supported which had significantly less coverage in RS, as well as a quick rundown of his works which were noteworthy enough to be included in RS.
 * When writing this I was up in the air about going chronologically, or by topic, and settled on breaking it up by topic, with each paragraph proceeding chronologically. Does that better explain why that paragraph starts at 1895? I thought it would break the flow of prose if I cut in halfway through the prose on the Afro-American council to mention that he was the president of the local board of commissioners for a fair.
 * I'm certainly open to adjusting this, however. The rest of the copy edits from this section are, I believe, complete. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 19:03, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
 * In that case, perhaps adding section headers would help clarify things. Alternatively, as there is only one paragraph in each section, better transitions could be added to clarify that it's moving to a different topic and what that topic is. At the moment, it just appears jumbled. I assume the first paragraph is about his political career and the second is activism, but the third and fourth paragraphs just feel miscellaneous. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 18:29, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I rearranged and added some headings. How's that look? I'm looking at the quote situation now. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 19:08, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
 * ✅ Everything here has been addressed. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 18:16, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Death
 * Note his age during his death. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 07:58, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
 * All set ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:57, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
 * The period at the end of the final quote should be outside the quote marks, as is the style in the rest of the article. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 18:29, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
 * ✅ Issues here have been corrected. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 18:16, 10 June 2022 (UTC)