Talk:Jessica Price

Career
BOZ So this 2014 Polygon article states that Price previously worked as an editor at Microsoft Studios before Paizo but I don't have any dates for when that was outside of her LinkedIn. I also don't have a date for when she joined ArenaNet (just the dates for when she was fired).
 * Forgot to sign above. Sorry! Sariel Xilo (talk) 20:24, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Good catch; I think we should include it even without the dates, although her dates are something which will need to be verified and included at some point. BOZ (talk) 19:42, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Here's Price talking about her experience at Microsoft but it doesn't really include dates (just that she worked at Microsoft twice before joining Paizo: https://twitter.com/delafina777/status/1114238240955834368 Sariel Xilo (talk) 20:57, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
 * User:Hobit, you weighed in on the AFD, do you have any opinions on this or the other improvements being made to this one? BOZ (talk) 19:43, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
 * No real opinion on organization, but the sources seem enough for an article. Hobit (talk) 06:02, 3 July 2019 (UTC)

Notable
AngusWOOF I believe BOZ moved this article back into drafts in 2017 before the stuff with ArenaNet occurred. She's notable for her work as a game designer (I've found at least 10 RPG books she's credited on between 2014 and 2018) & the sources for that seem pretty similar to other existing RPG designer pages. I did expand on the fact that reporters do reach out to her for comment on articles dealing with sexism in the gaming industry. Sariel Xilo (talk) 16:56, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Ooh, thanks, much better than having just a controversy section. :) BOZ (talk) 17:10, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
 * I think the page before the "Views & Controversy" section is pretty similar to other Pathfinder designers: James L. Sutter, Jason Bulmahn, Dave Gross, Elaine Cunningham. Let me know if you have suggestions for improvement. Sariel Xilo (talk) 17:55, 3 July 2019 (UTC)


 * If two-thirds of the article is going to be about the views and controversy then that needs to be added to the lead paragraph. Thanks for finding better sources. AngusWOOF  ( bark  •  sniff ) 18:11, 3 July 2019 (UTC)


 * , can you list your top WP:THREE sources on Price? There are a bunch of random ones that I'm not sure if she has passing mention or prominent feature on.  AngusWOOF  ( bark  •  sniff ) 18:13, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Here it goes: 1) 2013 interview with Bitch media 2) 2016 Washington Post article on Gen Con 3) 2018 Polygon article on ArenaNet firing Thanks for your help! I'm pretty new to Wikipedia. :) Sariel Xilo (talk) 19:46, 3 July 2019 (UTC)


 * , 1) Bitch Media is an interview Q&A, so that's primary and can't be used to establish notability. 2) Washington Post one is a "let's interview someone there" short blurb and not that detailed 3) this one's pretty detailed, focusing on her firing, so towards WP:BLP1E AngusWOOF  ( bark  •  sniff ) 20:24, 3 July 2019 (UTC)

Comment on AfC review
This article is a pretty good example of how the AfC submission/review process breaks, IMO. I just looked at the draft submitted for review, and while the current version is better, even that version contained significant coverage of the subject in three reliable sources that were unrelated (and prior) to the supposed "One Event", nor did the draft make a claim to notability based on that single event.

In such cases the more appropriate course would be to accept the submission while contributing to the necessary improvements (and the rejector has helpfully contribited to the latter process). This is especially true since the rejection notice now contains (non-policy-compliant) warnings about not removing the template until a reviewer has approved the article. Blech. Newimpartial (talk) 20:08, 3 July 2019 (UTC)


 * , if it meets WP:GNG or WP:THREE, then I can send it through and it doesn't have to be entered into the article right away, although that can help. Right now it's got that one detailed article by Polygon. The Bitch Media one is an interview, and the Washington Post one is mostly her speaking a sound bite at a convention. Still, if she's known for her eventful exit from Guild Wars 2, then that really needs to be summarized in the lead sentence. AngusWOOF  ( bark  •  sniff ) 20:27, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
 * I would have said that enough is said about Price's stature in the Post and 2014 Polygon pieces to contribute to Notability, and the GenCon source establishes point 1 of NCREATIVE, so I personally would have been satisfied with that. I suppose the other thing is that I don't see how all the firing coverage can make the subject *less* notable, so if the issue was WEIGHT of the rest of her career vs. the firing that could also be fixed before or after acceptance. The argument that BLP1E somehow applies although that event was not used to claim notability in the lede, or that coverage of her firing somehow made the subject less notable for her accomplishments - which is what the template seemed to suggest - is more than a little bit bizarre to me.
 * Which is not in any way to disparage your excellent edits to the article after having rejected it :). Newimpartial (talk) 20:50, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
 * The 2014 polygon one https://www.polygon.com/2014/4/9/5579800/meet-the-people-improving-video-games-one-line-at-a-time. is also a passing mention as one of the people passively interviewed:

(quote)

But even games that aren't text-heavy can benefit from editors, according to Jessica Price, who previously worked as an editor at Microsoft Studios and is now a project manager at tabletop gaming company Paizo Publishing.

"I was on the Kinect launch team and I was going through the error messages, and one of them was like, ‘Kinect skeletal tracking is malfunctioning. Ensure the central inputs are not occluded,'" she said. "And I was like, guys, why don't you just say, ‘Kinect can't see you. Make sure nothing is in the way?' You have to do a lot of translating from engineer-speak to human-speak."

(end quote)


 * Two paragraphs, one is her interview quote. That's not notability. On the flip side, there are lots of articles from all over the gaming and non-gaming media that cover her and Peter Fries in the context of their 2018 firing. AngusWOOF  ( bark  •  sniff ) 22:33, 3 July 2019 (UTC)


 * People really ought to read WP:SIGCOV, which doesn't say what most people citing it assume that it says. A paragraph *about* a subject and *establishing her status in her profession* is not a trivial mention - the example given in policy is a short sentence imparting a trivial factoid, which seems about right. Newimpartial (talk) 23:30, 3 July 2019 (UTC)

Newimpartial AngusWOOF So I'm super new to Wikipedia, but could someone explain to me how James L. Sutter & Jason Bulmahn (Pathfinder designers) meet the notability standard when their sources are blogs, primary or industry websites (ie Paizo itself)? I was using them as an example for Price's career section. Or if you can send me in the direction of articles on this subject so I can learn more? Thanks! Sariel Xilo (talk) 23:05, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Neither is a great article in terms of sourcing, but the Buhlman one cites Appelcline (an established RS), and also an industry award, so it does establish notability (barely) just with the sources given. A better example would be Monica Valentinelli, an article that has survived two AfD nominations with a similar range of source material to the current article. Newimpartial (talk) 23:23, 3 July 2019 (UTC)