Talk:Jester/Archives/2012

Prehistoric times?
Do the origins of the jester really date back to prehistoric times?

Duplication
There seems to be a fair bit of duplication in the article...? --Shallot 13:16, 4 Apr 2004 (UTC)


 * I can not judge this, but this article, although a good start, only tells you information about famous jesters, but does not explain, what the fool and court jester meant, especially during the middle ages. If able to understand German, have a look at http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narr. Perhaps I will edit the article here sometime, but this will be a lot of work...--KarlNapf 01:58, 9 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Fools and Folly
Fool redirects here, but there is little that explains medieval symbolism of fool and folly. A section discusses modern occult Tarot symbolism, which turned the Fool into an honorific figure -- this is very misleading. Naturally enough, the traditional symbolism of fools was almost entirely negative. The same is true today: just imagine the last time you were called a fool or said to be acting foolishly. From the Bible a fool was a moral reprobate, and the atheist/fool of Psalms 14 and 52 was often illustrated with a jester/fool. A fool, naturally representing Folly, is one of Giotto's seven vices. To fool someone is to deceive them, and so on. Having Fool redirect here and yet ignoring the basic meaning of fools and folly is weirdly misleading, even foolish. Michael Hurst (talk) 02:33, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Spun plates
This is a pretty random question but would some one happen to know if court jesters ever spun plates? And if so what year might they be doing such a thing? - Beans

Cut from article
The joker (playing card) often shows a court jester. The original version is The Fool card (Number Zero) in the Tarot pack. The Tarot was devised during the Dark Ages as a 'blind' or 'smokescreen' in which esoteric, metaphysical sacred symbols were hidden in the form of a children's pack of playing cards, or as a fortune-telling toy to throw off religious inquisitors. The symbols used in these cards came from Occult Mystery Schools along the Greek Gnostic, the Kabbalist Judaism, the Hermetic Schools of Egypt, the Medieaval Freemasons, Rosicrucians, and Far Eastern religions. The symbols can be found in Egyptian and Babylonian pyramids, and in Sanskrit texts (ie., Hiranya Garbha).

Perkeo, the dwarf-jester from Heildelberg
I made a specific question about this jester on the issue "comprachicos". Could any history specialist please help me? Thanks. Stella.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comprachicos <- This would explain it. Basically, it is Spanish for someone who buys children.

Not jesters
Two Clowns in Hamlet This is a mistake the clowns were not jester, one of them tells Hamlet that he has been a grave-digger for thirty years (since Hamlet was born ):

Questions this article leaves unanswered
--Nerd42 03:30, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Is there a difference between a Jester and a clown?
 * Where did the characteristic bell-hat come from, and what colors was it originally?

The three-pointed, belled hat is a representation of the ears and tail of Ass that jester's were once required (or chose) to wear. The cockscomb was a later symbolic representation, likely for more refined courts or company. Given the later name "coxcomb" or "cockscomb", I would imagine there is a combined symbolism with the rooster's comb, but I am unaware of any specific contextual basis for humorous representation; however the current-day colloquialism "ass-hat" takes on a deeper meaning when related to the ears and tail context of the jester's cockscomb.

Besieged 18:16, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Liliripe or liripipe
Minor point, but the article parenthetically names the pointed, floppy, belled ornaments of the fool's cap as liliripes. I have never heard of this word, but think it must be a typo or corruption of liripipe, which has had many meanings over the years, including meaning "a cord or sash hanging from the point of a hood, esp. in academic regalia." Can anyone corroborate that the correct term is liripipe, or for that matter, that liripipe can be used to describe the parts of a coxcomb?

adoarns 16:50, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

The art of the jester
There is too much information in "The art of the jester" which does not link well with the rest of the article — for instance, the sentence on Freud, Please, make this article about court jesters and not other things. Rintrah 11:18, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

''All jesters and fools in those days were thought of as special cases whom God had touched with a childlike madness—a gift, or perhaps a curse. Mentally handicapped people sometimes found employment by capering and behaving in an amusing way. In the harsh world of medieval Europe, people who might not be able to survive any other way thus found a social niche.''

This sounds like something that would be told to children. Which sources verify it? It seems altogether too fanciful. Rintrah 11:20, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Court?
Why isn't this simply at jester? There seems to be no disambiguation.

Peter Isotalo 13:24, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Neckpiece?
What are the neckpieces called? Their similar to the caps, with the dangling ends... JackOfHearts 07:19, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Two things
From the current article:

"All royal courts in those days employed entertainers"...

"All" is rather presumptive and is quite a serious blanket statement. Additionally, exactly *when*, precisely, is "in those days"?

Besieged 17:56, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

"Bob Dylan is often seen" . ..
I'd love to see a source for this. And there must be one out there. 128.147.38.10 12:57, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Question
"Other things distinctive about the jester were his incessant laughter"

Did they really never stop laughing? Even in court? How is that possible? --124.197.54.130 02:27, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Buffoon
The wiki article "Buffoon" has recently been "merged" with jester, but there was nothing in the article to differentiate, the origins, so I have copied the old text to a new section in this article, as there are some differences (ie, by my understanding, a Jester is a buffoon, but a buffoon is not necesarily a jester.)

Please feel free to comment. Regards, Lynbarn 10:55, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Bibilical definition
The word "fool" occurs 87 times in the Bible, but is defined differently than here: it denotes one who is morally deficient. (Reference: Holy Bible, New International Version; commentary on Proverbs 1:7). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.91.49.229 (talk) 10:47, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

End of Tradition
I believe John Ballanger & 'Fools Paradise' should be included in here cause that's why I made the search in the first place. 207.249.136.254 (talk) 14:58, 18 March 2008 (UTC)José Pamplona Muñoz189.136.159.181 (talk) 23:30, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

This Page is terrible
Section after section with references from what looks likes a single BBC article, more or less. There have to be scholarly works on the origin of Tarot, playing cards, et. Instead there is a bunch of mumbo jumbo and the first paragraph of the whole page stinks in particular. Clean it up, people! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.140.235.170 (talk) 18:21, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Court Jester
I was trying to read about these, and what they are like, so I came on here and found a link to "Court Jester." However, when I clicked it I was redirected back to the same page.... Is that supposed to happen, like has someone just forgotten to remove the link, or has someone deleted the Court Jester article and put a redirect? --Ursine Android (talk) 22:47, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Massive clean up and Organization
As per the concerns detailed above, I've moved the decent section on Shakespeare to Shakespearian fool and the awful trivia section to List of jesters. These two moves greatly help the integrity of the article, which was, as noted, becoming a dumping ground for disorder and trivia. Please be so kind as to help improve the two new pages and correct any shortcomings of the current one. With humble regards, --Smilo Don (talk) 05:10, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Jesters
jesters dress in mardi gras colors.

a jester is supposed to tell jokes.

a jester makes people laugh. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.69.119.11 (talk) 17:57, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

one of the sources gives a 404, probably worth looking into so that the source url gets updated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.169.197.253 (talk) 22:37, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Complete revamp
It is my intention to completely revamp the 'Jesters' entry correcting many factual errors, including new information and removing sections or entries that are not related to what I understand to be an historical article about Jesters. I feel reasonably qualified to do this because of my extensive reading on the subject. This revamp may take a while and the article may not be complete when you see it. I will post here to say when I have made all the changes I see fit. Happy to receive constructive comments about my changes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Robynthehode (talk • contribs) 10:40, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Frippery?
I was reading through end of tradition when it said the new king had no need for such fripperies, a "fripper" is someone on a ship who is injured and doesn't work so intern he dances and sings to the crew. I fixed this but weeks later someone changed thinking he knew what he was doing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JohnWayne123 (talk • contribs) 22:20, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

Fools or Jesters
In my long term project to clean up various pages (jesters, clowns, street performers, circus, circus clowns, etc) and make them more understandable and reflect the information from academics and others who have written on the subject, I am proposing to create a new article 'Fools'. If you are aware of this subject it is clear that Wikipedia requires this article. To sum up the writers on the subject (see the books listed in the jester article) see 'Fools' as the top level term for performers who have expressed their talents throughout history and include jesters, clowns, bouffons, harlequins, physical comics and others. It is clear from these sources all jesters, clowns etc are 'Fools' but not all fools are jesters, clowns etc. It makes sense to follow these writers and their terminology and to structure Wikipedia articles related to this subject with the introduction of the new article 'Fools'. I look forward to comments. If I do not receive any or any objections I will proceed Robynthehode (talk) 07:43, 1 November 2012 (UTC)