Talk:Jet Airways/Archive 1

NPOV
This article is unabashedly written by the airline itself! This is NOT what wikipedia is there for. Can we rectify? How about starting with how the airline was set up and current tangles of its Chair/Owner Naresh Goyal? Autumnleaf 16:12, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

NPOV
Definitely agree with Autumnleaf. This reads like a brochure of Jet Airways. I think the whole page should be removed or re-written. As is normal there are no sources other than company brochures and hence this page should be removed.

Accordingly I have removed the two sections that were the most obviously biased. --Deepak23 11:14, 22 October 2005 (UTC) Deepak23

Great! We can all be patriots here. JET is a phenomenon - but we don't help our case if we don't exercise neutrality and balance in talking about our successes. I think it would be fair to bring in stuff about what the Indian Government alleges about the Daoud Ibrahim and Dubai underworld connections - this is front page newspaper material in public knowledge. Also the unusual fact of the apparent proprietor/shareholder Naresh Goyal being a German citizen. But we also need to find the dates for awards and have data about its market position. Autumnleaf 20:09, 23 October 2005 (UTC)


 * I reverted attempt to remove NPOV tag. Having just googled to refresh my memory I think that the page does not reflect the balance of views about the airline. There should be a huge page about this guys! Meanwhile as it stands it still has information which should not appear on Wiki - which is not an adjunct to a company website after all. I made a few edits neverthelessAutumnleaf 15:51, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

What to keep in?
I think this needs to be reverted to a stub. I am going to delete some of this turgid industry data (a category I put in as a bin for the awful technical data!) unless I hear objections. Bye! Autumnleaf 22:12, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

Do not include promotional or hagiological material.
I have noted that an anonymous editor has been posting links which are wholly promotional of Jet. Such purely partisan edits only brings disrepute to the subject matter and makes us suspicious that employees or friends of the airline are treating Wikipedia as a puff page. Also in future please sign in with four tildes which look like this ~ ~ ~ ~. This extends to the person who took the trouble of going to my discussion page to take issue with my edits - who also asked me to use the discussion pages; ironic. Perhaps this person would care to sign in here. Autumnleaf 19:33, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

NPOV
There is too much data about Jet's promotional offers and frequent-flier vouchers. A comparatively small airline like this shouldn't get more than a stub.Gyan guru, 0431hrs GMT, 28 December 2005


 * I think its time to remove the NPOV--PlaneMad 12:36, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Controversy not resolved; sources for information
I have reinstated the material about US investigations as these have not reached a conclusion. Also - has been bugging me that the page still looks like a bulletin board for the airline. We also need sources for 'plans to fly to etc' so I finally removed that bit. I propose deleting all this stuff about number of aircraft and orders... it is not something other like pages have. Autumnleaf 12:41, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
 * dont understand why the page looks like a bulletin board for the airline, seems fine to me. I beleive that aircraft orders should stay as it gives the reader an idea of the airline's future potential, but i think we can tone down on the fine details like A330s instead of A330-200 etc --PlaneMad 17:35, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Operations
It is being mentioned in the operations that after Chennai - Colombo, two routes Delhi - Kathmandu and Mumbai - Colombo were added. I am sure abt the Del Ktm route but Mumbai - Colombo... To my thinking it was Mumbai - Singapore. Can some one comment on that.

Secondly its being mentioned that 9W was the first private carrier to go international. Again to my knowledge It was Air Sahara Chennai - Colombo which was the first and not 9W.

Comments please..! Boeing737 21:10, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Primary Hub
Took Delhi out from the Primary Hub. Actually Mumbai is the Primary Hub and Maintenance Base. Apart from this Delhi, Kolkata, Chennai,Pune and Bangalore are the Secondary Hubs.

Hence the correction reflects the same. Boeing737 21:10, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

777
I read they have ordered the 777-200LR, not the 300ER.--Arado 16:08, 31 May 2006 (UTC)


 * They have ordered the 77W. Not the 77L! FlyAirCanada 19:24, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Non representative skin colour used in Jet Airways adverts
Is it just me or in the current Jet Airways website, do the staff look unusually light in colour? Surely this skin tone is not representative of the whole of India! 194.83.140.43 19:31, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

What, according to yourself, is a so-called "representative" skin colour for the whole of India, given the fact that the country is home to all shades of skin colour from the deepest brown to the fairest "white" complexions, depending on which parts of India and what ethnic groups among India's vast and diverse population you refer to. Let's also keep in mind that this (="unity in diversity") is something almost totally unrivalled by any other country in the world before passing such generalised comments. Regarding the actual advert that seems to offend you as being "unrepresentative of India as a whole", this is nothing unusual among many commercial Indian ads I happened to come across because they seem to be based on an "over-idealised", predominantly male Indian beauty concept that accords the highest status to female complexions that appear to be whiter than many white Europeans. Just look at the complexions of all our cine heroines, not just the Bollywood types but those acting in Tamil/Telugu and other Indian vernacular movies as well! User:Pimpom123 10:05, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Dual Citizenship?
I am a dual US and German Citizen, therefore I am not so sure about Germany not allowing dual citizenship. Does that mean just with India? Seems a bit ambiguous. 158.143.185.5 13:07, 10 May 2007 (UTC)Calvin

Until recently India did not permit Dual Citizenship. Now it does. However, Pakistan and Bangladeshi nationals cannot avail the Indian Dual Citizenship due to security concerns. 59.92.68.125 (talk) 21:45, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Why is this article uncategorized?
I see that this article already has the following tags-

[Category:Airlines of India] [Category:IATA members] [Category:Airlines established in 1992] [Category:Companies based in Mumbai]

So, why is this still called an uncategorized article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by SouvikSinha (talk • contribs) 05:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Controversies
There is some user who has constantly been removing the controversies section from the article, by calling it "prose/rumours", while I found the references strong enough to keep the information. All the references are from well reputed Indian/foreign media companies. Can anyone please comment. --Chattasingh 12:05, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Originated from TATA
While flying with Jet Airways planes I read from the in-flight magazine that the Jet Airways was ordered to be founded by J. R. D. Tata if I remember correctly. The order was given to "Naresh Goyal".

Currently this information is missing from the article but IMO it should be included

Hkikkas (talk) 00:16, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

CANCELLING FLIGHTS WHEN OTHER FLIGHTS ARE OPERATING
On 23rd January,2009 Jet Airways cancelled its Kolkata(CCU) -Bagdogra(IXB) flight 9W 617 citing bad weather at the desination airport.Amazingly, Spicejet airlines, a low cost airlines, operated successfully on the same date and around same time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sladdha (talk • contribs) 10:05, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Excess use of Advertising language
Excess use of Advertising language is used throughout the article. Using images of comfortable seats, food offered in flight are all clear examples of advertsing. 123.239.101.116 (talk) 11:46, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

"Effects of Recession"
Looks like apart from Snoozlepet's recent edit the section "Effects of Recession" contains no references and is made up of original research. How can one know that "the Recession" "forced" Jet Airways to stop certain destinations? I think this section should be closed down. Speed74 (talk) 16:53, 15 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes it was beacuse of recession that 9W terminated the Bangalore - Brussels, Ahmedabad - London and Amritsar - London. These routes were flown on A330's and 9W was using some of their B777-300 on non-stop schedules to North America. It wanted to use an additional 3 A330's on India-US flights and introduce them via Brussels (although some non-stop schedules do exist). The airline wanted some additional 3 A330's to do the same, and since the maintainence and operating cost of an A330 is lesser than a B777-300, it terminated the above three routes and diverted them on India-US routes via Brussels. Well it surely wasn't a case of poor load factor. In Bangalore-Brussels route, used to have a load factor of atleast 80%. I have read this somewhere, I'll try and get the source for the same or if anybody else could get it, it would be great. Please don't delete the section. Abhishek191288 (talk) 05:12, 16 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Ok, but just saying 9W were "forced" to do this and that because of the recession isn't really good enough. If you could find a source that'll be great. Speed74 (talk) 18:38, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

Merge proposal of Jet Konnect into this article
I propose Jet Konnect be merged into this article as it is merely a low cost brand and not a separate airline and can hence not have it's own hubs and focus cities. Jet Konnect article as such contains very little info about the brand. &mdash;   Abhishek   Talk 05:10, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Agree as it is not actually an airline just a brand name for low-cost services. MilborneOne (talk) 11:33, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
 * ✅ – ∃   Aditya   7   ¦  12:05, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Jet-Airways-Logo new.gif
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Unveiling its plans for the newly created hub at Brussels, Jet Airways said it would operate five flights a day from India to the Belgian capital and provide seamless connections for onward journeys to the US and Canada. In addition, the hub will give the airline access to the whole of Europe. That's a good strategy to set a hub at Brussels and i think Jet Airways should begin staffing its Brussels base with company personnel. It would be good if Indian cabin crew are based at Brussels for those new flights to us and canada. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alanl (talk • contribs) 14:08, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

Jet Airways and its hub in Brussels
Unveiling its plans for the newly created hub at Brussels, Jet Airways said it would operate five flights a day from India to the Belgian capital and provide seamless connections for onward journeys to the US and Canada. In addition, the hub will give the airline access to the whole of Europe. That's a good strategy to set a hub at Brussels and i think Jet Airways should begin staffing its Brussels base with company personnel. It would be good if Indian cabin crew are based at Brussels for those new flights to us and canada. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alanl (talk • contribs) 14:08, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

Brand Ownership & Controversies
The Brand Ownership section is totally unnecessary...Everything said here can be stated in one sentence under the history section. There is no need to describe how easyJet works on this page and who owns easyJet.

The controversies section is rediculious. No other airline article has such a section and this is completely full of "rumours" and unsourced prose. There is no need to describe in detail why Jet Airways didnt get clearance for one of its routes. The paragraphs about how Jet Airways came to be owned does not belong in the controversies section and Naresh Goyal's citiizenship problems need not be discussed here! This section is 99% unsourced...It's written like an essay and includes rumors and opinions of the writer ("Another issue that was "problematic" in the eyes of the US aviation authorities").

Stop adding this to the page! Nikkul (talk) 05:06, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Brand ownership
Jet Airways does not own its brand. The brand is owned by Jetair Enterprises Ltd., a separate company substantially owned by Naresh Goyal, which licenses the brand to the airline in return for an annual payment. This arrangement is very similar to the terms governing the use of the "easy" brand by the easyJet Airline Company Limited (the name under which easyJet has been incorporated). Under the aforesaid arrangement, Sir Stelios Haji-Ioannou, the founder and largest individual shareholder of easyJet Airline Co. Ltd. has sole ownership of the "easy" brand and licenses it to that airline for a specified payment. This kind of arrangement is of vital importance should the concerned airlines become the subject of a hostile takeover bid because the bidder[s] will not automatically acquire ownership of their takeover target's brand and without access to the brand the takeover target will be less valuable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alanl (talk • contribs) 14:08, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

Controversies
It took Jet Airways more than two years to get the necessary clearances from US authorities to fly to the United States. The US State Department gave the go ahead on November 15, 2006.

Jet was expected to begin service to Newark via Brussels in June 2005 but a problem arose in March 2005, when the airline submitted an application to the U.S. Department of Transportation. Nancy Heckerman, CEO of US company Jet Airways Inc. based in Bethesda, Maryland, opposed the application in letters to the Transportation Department alleging trademark infringement. Though the litigation is still unresolved, the Department of Transportation concluded it was not a reason to prevent Jet from flying to the U.S.[8]

A second and more serious allegation that delayed Jet Airways being permitted to fly to the USA focused on its opaque ownership structure as well as its alleged links to organised crime in India and abroad. Jet Airways was originally set up as a subsidiary of Tailwinds, an Isle of Man based holding company designed as a tax shelter, whose sole shareholder was Naresh Goyal, the airline's NRI founder and chairman.[9] Initially, both Gulf Air and Kuwait Airways had acquired minority stakes in the airline. However, the Government of India subsequently decreed that foreign airlines would not be allowed to own any shares in any Indian airline (though other foreign entities and individuals could still acquire/own minority stakes in Indian carriers.[10]

As a result of this ruling Gulf Air and Kuwait Airways sold their stakes to Naresh Goyal who then became the airline's sole shareholder. Jet Airways floated a minority stake of around 20% on the Mumbai stock exchange in 2005 to enable it to reduce the debts that had been accumulated since its inception as well as to fund its fleet expansion programme, including the acquisition of a fleet of new Airbus A330 and Boeing 777 long-haul widebodied jets to operate new long range services, primarily to Europe and North America. This resulted in a reduction of Tailwind's stake in the airline to just below 80%. [11] According to the company's articles of association, the bulk of Naresh Goyal's shares in Tailwinds are held on behalf of several other individuals who all seem to be resident citizens of India. While Indian government officials have been satisfied that these arrangements do not compromise Jet Airways' status as an Indian-owned airline that is effectively controlled by Indian citizens, they were viewed as "problematic" by the American authorities.[12]

Another issue that was "problematic" in the eyes of the US aviation authorities concerned the controversy surrounding Naresh Goyal's citizenship. There have been reports in the Indian media that he is an Indian-born, naturalised German citizen who is permanently resident in the UK. India's citizenship laws barring dual citizenship for Indian passport holders have recently been amended permitting Indian citizens to take up another country's citizenship - bar Pakistan and Bangladesh - without forfeiting their Indian citizenship as long as that country permits dual citizenship.[13] [14] This does not apply to Germany as it does not allow dual citizenship in general cases, unlike the UK, US, Canada, Australia and the Netherlands for instance, which do allow dual citizenship.[15]

Had these media reports turned out to be true confirming that Jet Airways was effectively controlled by Naresh Goyal through his majority ownership of Tailwinds, the US authorities might have construed this as a violation of the "open skies" bilateral air services agreement between India and the US as well as international aviation law. Aviation law states that an airline must be substantially owned and controlled by citizens of the country where it is based in order to qualify as a "flag carrier" representing that country. This means that if Jet Airways were effectively controlled by a German rather than an Indian citizen, its traffic rights between India and the US and possibly other countries as well might need to be renegotiated under the German-US "open skies" bilateral aviation accord. In addition, the US and other countries could ask the Indian Government for further concessions for their own designated flag carriers providing scheduled air services to/from India if Jet Airways wanted to protect its international traffic rights from/to India. This, in turn, could lead the company's Indian-based competitors to complain to the Indian authorities that Jet Airways was not a "genuine" Indian flag carrier and might potentially result in competitors applying for the revocation of Jet Airways' operating permit and traffic rights (in India and abroad).ref>[15] Naresh Goyal's citizenship doenst need 2 paragraphs of explanation.

Rumours have circulated that Tailwinds acted as a front for foreign airlines or possibly even Dawood Ibrahim, India's most wanted criminal, as well as global terror organization [[al Qaeda.[16] Since Dawood Ibrahim's name is on Interpol's most wanted list and has been declared a terrorist by the US government, the US authorities' review of Jet Airways' application for permission to commence regular commercial airline operations between India and the USA by being issued with a so-called "foreign [air] carrier permit" took more than two years coming. The US State Department now seems to be convinced that the ownership pattern of Jet Airways does not clash with national security.

The latest controversy arose when Asmin Tariq, a British-born contractor of Pakistani descent, who was working for the airline as a security agent at London Heathrow Airport (and was subsequently made a member of staff when the airline decided to bring its London-based security operation in-house) became implicated in the foiled terror plot of August 10, 2006 to blow up over several weeks up to ten transatlantic airliners belonging to three different US airlines in mid-air on their way from London-Heathrow/-Gatwick to New York JFK/Newark and Los Angeles/LAX airports.[17]

Asmin Tariq had been arrested along with the other 20+ suspects and is now in British police custody. In addition, he has also been suspended from duty by Jet Airways. When asked how such a person could have been employed by the airline in a position demanding extreme confidence and trust, Jet Airways defended its conduct by saying that the person was a UK passport holder who had passed the stringent security requirements of BAA, Heathrow's owner and operator. They also said that under UK employment legislation the company was obliged to offer any permanent appointments to former contractors once the contract that formed the basis of their original employment had been terminated. Two paragraphs about one employee is not WP:Summary

Of late Indian Minister of state for Civil Aviation Praful Patel is believed to have shown undue favouritism to Jet Airways by clearing files related to the Airlines at breakneck speed. Jet Airways's application to fly to Canada was cleared within two weeks of application being received by DGCA while blocking the entry of new entrants into Indian Aviation(scheduled operations)for over two years. A Parliamentry Committee headed by Nilotpal Basu found Minister Patel favouring Jet Airways.[18] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alanl (talk • contribs) 14:08, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed
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False info on subsidiaries
I see that JetKonnect is also considered as the subsidiary of the airline. But it was merely the low-cost brand of Jet Airways. JetLite was a subsidiary after Jet Airways took over Air Sahara. In 2012, JetLite was rebranded as JetKonnect which would enable the full merger of former Air Sahara into Jet Airways and facilitate the operations as one airline. The proposal was also to retire JetKonnect brand altogether and have one single name in the industry – "Jet Airways".

Considering this, I feel it's better to merge the contents of JetKonnect into this article since JetKonnect is merely a brand and not a separate airline. The information also needs to be updated as per above. &mdash;  LeoFrank  Talk 16:35, 25 March 2016 (UTC)


 * You are Wrong, based on th articles folowing points


 * JetKonnect became an airline after merger with Jelite, though AOC remained in the name of Jetite India officially.
 * It even operated under separate code S2 previously of defunct Jetlite airlines, in the past it used 9W of Jet Airways when it was just a brand.
 * Destinations section mentioned it used to fly for Jet Airways as a brand befoe becoming an airline, nd those routes are now flown by Jet Airways but using JetKonnect operated aircraft till merger is fully completed.
 * JetKonnect had its ownn fleet gained from Jetlite as well
 * Article also mentioned fleet branding and cabins were being changed to become Jet Airways after the LCC brand JetKonnect was merged into the parent company to operate as single brand full service airline only.

All above were confirmed with indian aviation comminity when article was last updated. inspector (talk) 20:36, 31 March 2016 (UTC)

Oppose the merger. By all means update, but as there were two separate entities prior to a takeover of one by the other, better to have two articles IMO. YSSYguy (talk) 00:12, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
 * @YSSYguy: They are not separate airlines at all. JetKonnect had always been a low cost brand of Jet Airways. Just have a look at the discussion above from 2011, where two other editors agreed for the merger and for some reason, it never took place. The idea is to merge JetKonnect into Jet Airways and update the existing JetLite article since it used to be a subsidiary, but had later been changed to JetKonnect only to drop the S2 code and have a single 9W code on all flights. Again, JetKonnect and Jet Airways are not separate airlines. If you have any other reason for oppose, please bring it up. &mdash;  LeoFrank  Talk 06:15, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Please read this which has more info. &mdash;  LeoFrank  Talk 06:20, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Ok, I got confused. As the above discussion, the merger of JetKonnect into this article did take place. But the JetKonnect article that existed until now was a result of an bad move of JetLite to JetKonnect. I have reverted the move and redirected JetKonnect to Jet Airways and restored the JetLite article to its earlier form. &mdash;  LeoFrank  Talk 16:32, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
 * I am removing the merger notice as I have addressed the issues myself. &mdash;  LeoFrank  Talk 16:35, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Oppose Jetlite India is was? the AOC holder, JetKonnect is the brand it was operating under after merger of JetKonnect with Jetlite, so from being just a brand of Jet Airways JetKonnect turned into a full low cost airline after the merger also the code of JetKonnect became S2 gained from Jelite, it used to used Jet Airways 9W code when it was merely a brand, article mentioned it all, it should have remained as it dealt with entire history of the carrier starting off as Sahara Airlines going onto Jetlite then JetKonnect and mentioning merger into Jet Airways as well, it should be restored. inspector (talk) 20:24, 31 March 2016 (UTC)
 * JetKonnect never became an airline. If it was an airline, then it should've had its own IATA and ICAO code. FYI, JetKonnect co-existed along with JetLite even before the merger. The intention of merging JetLite with JetKonnect, the low-cost brand of JetAirways was to further merge the two airlines into one and to completely do away with low cost and for 9W to establish itself as a full service carrier only. &mdash;  LeoFrank  Talk 15:06, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
 * As said above in my previous statement, JetKonnect never became an airline. It remained the low-cost brand of Jet Airways till it was done away with. The merger itself took place in phases which is why the S2 code was still under use.
 * When the whole point of merging JetLite with the mainline was to do away with having two airlines, why would a brand be removed and made into an airline at the time of the merger? &mdash;  LeoFrank  Talk 15:11, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

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B777,a340,b737 Isaacjacinto6 (talk) 09:17, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 April 2019
Jet Airways was an Indian international airline based in Mumbai. Request: Please change the 'was' to 'is' since the shut down of the airline was temporary and changing the existence to was has no valid proof. StayKind101 (talk) 07:53, 18 April 2019 (UTC)
 * ✅. Currently both the lede and body of the article describe, rightly or wrongly, the suspension as "temporary." If that is the case, the verb "is" seems more appropriate, at least until a reliable source says otherwise. Aoi (青い) (talk) 07:56, 18 April 2019 (UTC)

Financial section
FYI. I mentioned the WP:RS issue described in this edit: Reliable_sources/Noticeboard --David Tornheim (talk) 02:53, 25 April 2019 (UTC)