Talk:Jewish exodus from the Muslim world/Archive 7

Chart of Population should be updated
Of the listed Counties Jewish Population 2020: See updated Chart below

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 24 June 2020

 * ❌ I am confused as to what your request is. Is it to implement the table below, because that is already there? P,TO 19104 (talk) (contribs) 15:46, 10 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Answer:the population table below is an updated list to year 2020 with numbers updated if known; it is different from the table in the beginning of the article which only goes up to 2017 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.102.32.94 (talk) 21:06, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Sorry, but I can't make sense of what exactly you want changed even with your reply. — Tartan357   ( Talk ) 10:15, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

Table of Jewish population since 1948
In 1948, there were between 758,000 and 881,000 Jews (see table below) living in communities throughout the Arab world. Today, there are fewer than 8,600. In some Arab states, such as Libya, which was about 3% Jewish, the Jewish community no longer exists; in other Arab countries, only a few hundred Jews remain.Of the chart showing rements of Jews in Muslin Countries the following updates of their status of Jewish Population 2020: {other counties on chart as of 2020 Jewish Population is not listed]

Update to above table: 2020 Jews In Iraq  total  4 Jews in Yemen total 38  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.49.138.11 (talk) 14:35, 27 December 2020 (UTC)

Update in 2021 Jews in Yemen Total 6 Jews In Iraq total 3 The last Jew in Afghanastan is going to leave

Jewish Virtual Library 2019-2020 Lists of Jews Updated Lebanon                   29 Syria                      0 Iran                   8,500 Iraq                       3 Oman                       0 Yeman                      7 Algeria                  200 egypt                      9 Libya                      0 Morroco                2,100 Tunisa                 1,000 Afghanstan                 1

Not sure why we need two columns for recent estimates though. -  (talk)  06:30, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

Note to above Afghanstan is now judenfrei as of 7 September 2021 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.5.156.162 (talk)

Note Update 3/19/2022 Algeria is Judenfrei https://www.worldjewishcongress.org/en/about/communities/DZ?msclkid=978197d4a73811ecb6ee0c7635384142 World Jewish Congress website "Jews lived in Algeria from the pre-Roman period to the early 1960s. There is no Jewish community left in Algeria today."(Accessed 18 March 2022) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.5.188.123 (talk) 13:05, 19 March 2022 (UTC)
 * That's WP:OR, since Judenfrei has a very specific definition that editors cannot use however and wherever they wish. M.Bitton (talk) 14:16, 19 March 2022 (UTC)

Note reported 2018 Last Jew in Eritrea reported he was shot and killed by an unknown person  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.5.188.123 (talk) 14:32, 19 March 2022 (UTC)

Not sure why we need to include a "Better Source Needed" next to the virtual library citations in the table? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.122.64.210 (talk) 14:21, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

Jewish Population decline from 1948
Note In 2022 the number of Jews in Lebanon was reported to be 27 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.49.181.242 (talk) 22:32, 4 December 2022 (UTC)

Introduction: in-text sources.
Re: edits such as this one.

In the first sentence of the Introduction where the figure of 850,000 is given, two in-text sources are cited. The first is from an Israeli government website, which is not reliable to verify anything other than what the Israeli government says. The second is a New York Times article which, rather than presententing the figure as a fact in the NYT's own voice, presents it as a claim made by Justice for Jews from Arab Countries.

Therefore, neither in-text source is reliable for verifying that the figure, as presented, is a fact in Wikipedia terms. To resolve that problem, I added the "according to ..." text at the point Introduction where the citations appear. Two other editors have moved the text. Either my my addition should be left where it is, or another solution to the problem that neither of the sources provided are reliable for the purpose they are being used should be found.

Note that there is a separate problem: the 850,000 figure is contradicted lower in the article.

   ←   ZScarpia  23:38, 6 December 2022 (UTC)


 * There seem to be various figures being bandied around the page, often without scholarly support, which is really what all such figures should have at this stage for this very well covered topic. Gov sources and news reports deferring to non-academic research are the last thing that should be used (not least in the lead). References this flawed should be binned. Iskandar323 (talk) 06:22, 7 December 2022 (UTC)

Numbers don't add up
The introduction says:

"Two hundred and sixty thousand Jews from Arab countries immigrated to Israel between 1948 and 1951, accounting for 56% of the total immigration to the newly founded state.[5] The Israeli government's policy to accommodate 600,000 immigrants over four years, doubling the existing Jewish population,[6] encountered..."

Per simple WP:CALC, the percentage of 260,000 out of 600,000 is around 43%, not 56%. Either the source says 56% of the immigrants came from non-Arab countries (probably Europe) but someone wrote the opposite in this article, or the source itself is incorrect. Someone please fix it. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.28.184.235 (talk) 06:26, 9 January 2023 (UTC)


 * There's no reason why it should add up. The 600,000 figure is just a forward-looking policy or target, not an actual figure or estimate produced after the fact. Iskandar323 (talk) 06:39, 9 January 2023 (UTC)
 * One is a policy number, the other an actual number. Also the time periods are slightly different (3 vs 4 years). Onceinawhile (talk) 06:39, 9 January 2023 (UTC)
 * However, that this number appears in the lead (twice) despite being located nowhere in the body does make it a MOS:LEAD problem. Iskandar323 (talk) 06:49, 9 January 2023 (UTC)
 * 260,000 immigrants out of 700,000 for the 1948-51 period is only 37%, not 56%. There is a clear mistake here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.28.184.235 (talk) 06:53, 9 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Where does it say 700,000? Onceinawhile (talk) 07:00, 9 January 2023 (UTC)
 * In many articles, including Israel, Aliyah, etc. 700,000 Jews moved to Israel between 1948 and 1951, including 260,000 from Arab countries. Maybe you should take out that 56%, which is clearly wrong. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.28.184.235 (talk) 07:02, 9 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Have done. I don’t have access to the underlying source to understand where the 56% came from.
 * I now see it was added in this edit in 2011; it had a wider scope then including Turkey and Iran. Over time it must have been misunderstood in the editing process.
 * Thank you for spotting this and for persevering, Onceinawhile (talk) 08:02, 9 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Glad to help. Even if the source said such a thing (hypothetically), it doesn't mean we have to include information that can easily be proven wrong by many other reliable sources and basic WP:CALC. When it comes to politics and history things are more complicated, but not when it comes to math. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.28.186.184 (talk) 09:48, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

Minor word choice improvement
In the subsection "Criticism of Jewish Naqba narrative in Israel", it would be better if it read 'Yehoshua Porath *had* rejected the comparison' instead of 'has', as sadly he died in 2019. 61.1.51.163 (talk) 21:02, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

Jews in Lebanon
In 2020 the total number of Jews in Lebanon was 29. -Attallah (talk) 07:27, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

Lead sentence bolding
The redundancy in the lead sentence is unjustified. Of course the Jewish exodus is the exodus of Jews. Furthermore, bolding the "Jewish exodus from the Muslim world" suggests that this is the proper name of the event. It is not. It exists in only two books. Wikipedia uses it as a description, and descriptive titles should not be bolded.

I am not exactly sure what the problem is with the edit I made, but I think it can be addressed without restoring the redundant (and misleading) boldface. Surtsicna (talk) 19:12, 14 October 2023 (UTC)


 * With respect, I think your campaign to eliminate boldface from article leads (which are almost uniformly common in my navigating experience on wiki) is excessive, and think your attention could be focused elsewhere (such as article revision).
 * But the core issue here is not the bolding, but your attempt to re-edit the intro of the article in a fashion that potentially both skews and inappropriately oversimplifies a complex and multi-faceted event (which the article’s current intro and body handles with dexterity). The lede already makes clear there was both forced and unforced migration. If you wish to emphasize certain “voluntary” aspects, I recommend building those sections out within the article, and give appropriate context.
 * Mistamystery (talk) 23:00, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
 * The lead sentence is the most important part of any article. Attention should be paid to it being well-worded. The Manual of Style devotes much attention to explaining that boldface should not be universally applied to lead sentences. I am quite certain we can come to a wording that addresses the concerns of both of us. It is not my wish to emphasize any aspects but to avoid circular definitions. In this example nothing of substance is changed; the meaning stays exactly the same. I should note that the "Muslim world" does not equal "Arab countries and Iran" as the lead currently suggests, and since the article mentions Muslim-majority countries that are neither Arab nor Iran, perhaps the lead sentence should reflect that. That is another issue, however. Surtsicna (talk) 06:26, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
 * That is a very pertinent observation. I have clarified the range of different regions in which the Muslim-majority countries involved fall. The first sentence also lacked a "when", now added. Iskandar323 (talk) 10:21, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I still believe that the lead sentence should not contain repetition. How do you feel about: ? Surtsicna (talk) 11:04, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

Transjordan, West Bank, & Gaza
Section is woefully underdeveloped. (Will also be adding Gaza to this section as it is inappropriate to include in the Egyptian section due to Gaza’s post-war inclusion into Egypt)

Will be drafting necessary additions to cover the depopulation of Jews from those areas in response to 1948. Please let me know any thoughts, notes, etc.

Thanks. Mistamystery (talk) 17:52, 11 September 2023 (UTC)


 * it is completely obvious that the Goodman Camping Initiative is not a reliable source for history. It cannot stay. NPR is a reliable source for news but a single sentence in passing about a historical event, buried in an article on something else, is not adequate. All of these things (after my cleanup) can be sourced with proper sources, so instead of reverting poor sources back in you should go looking for good sources. Zerotalk 00:44, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

Small correction on word
"[…] there were those within the Jewish Agency and government who opposed promoting a large-scale emigration movement […]" I believe the correct word is immigration. Nmsalgueiro (talk) 10:57, 30 October 2023 (UTC)


 * It's means an emigration movement from the Greater Middle East countries. Iskandar323 (talk) 11:47, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

Intro Typo
"and push factors, such as antisemitism, persecution, and pograms, political instability, poverty, and expulsion."

Minor typo but I believe 'pograms' was meant to be 'pogroms' here. Economycaregiver (talk) 06:10, 29 November 2023 (UTC)


 * ✅ Andre🚐 06:11, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

I think this article needs much more work and depicts Arabs as the villains.
All this is messy. I checked the French version and it doesn't look better. One thing that Zionists on here won't be very motivated to address but which contributes to the confusion about Israel (people) is the fanct that anti-semitism towards an Arab Jew had nothing to do with that towards an Ashkenazi. Anti-semitism is used like a filling-word. Gentiles have to deal with that and it is not our job. Arab Jews were at the bottom of the pyramid and were not looked very differently by most Ashkenazi at their arrival in Israel or befor that, when Ashkenazi went to look for them, to use them to fill Israel (before WWII). They hadn't seen them in 2000 years, were not so nice to them, but this is again something taboo. Also you make it sound like the establishment of Israel is one among many other reasons for the exodus. I think that nationalism in Arab countries had indeed started beforehand (not sure what country), but Israel had the effect of a bomb in the ME. The Arab ligue had said NO, but we don't listen to losers. I am not against Israel, but I understand why it couldn't work and one zionist had foreseen that, but guess what? Last time I checked I couldn't find him anymore 3 weeks age. I spent half an hour. I know now that I need to go into the history of every damn article. SHAME Jews in Egypt were doing very well. I know this first hand and for probably 5 generations. They didn't seem to suffer from antisemitism, they employed a hundred Arabs, learned Italian with their nannies, and I never heard a compaint from the person in question (deceased now) who indeed had to leave under Nasser and give their big big  factory for free. So, please stop turning everything in the negative. The expulsion was totally predictable. I mean in general

Also, the Arab world saved the skin of Ashkenazi and Sefardi for centuries. Arabs have disappeared from Wikipedia except when then they suck (although they don't even suck for real). Israel is vilifying a religion for its own sake which is dangerous and entitled tp a level I can't understand. The historical Mass murderers between Islam and Christianity are Christians, Zionists are putting mankind at threat just for their sake. And it won't work. Thank you Leaving Neveland (talk) 20:58, 15 December 2023 (UTC)

Timeline of antisemitism has an RfC
Timeline of antisemitism has an RfC for possible consensus. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. patsw (talk) 23:31, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

May 2024

 * What I think should be changed (format using textdiff):

This is a page about the jewish exodus from the muslim world. The background section should give some description of the condition of the jews before the exodous, and an explanation on why an exodus was necessary. The background just describes that the jewish condition in the muslim world was quite prosperous. This is not appropriate because it does nothing to explain the necessity of an exodus.

It should mention that jews historically did not have the same rights as muslims in the muslim world. And it should also mention arab and muslim pogroms against the jews, which is the main motivation for leaving the muslim world.


 * Why it should be changed: It is the most natural question a reader will ask, why the exodus happened.
 * References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button):


 * Bostom, Andrew G. The Legacy of Islamic Antisemitism: From Sacred texts to Solemn History. Prometheus Books. 2008. ISBN 978-1-59102-554-2

Penrose sachdev (talk) 20:56, 29 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 21:12, 29 May 2024 (UTC)


 * What I think should be changed (format using textdiff):

Please just add the single sentence to the background section:

"Jewish people suffered many pogroms and persecutions in the arab world."


 * Why it should be changed:

In a page about the exodus of jews from the arab world, there is clearly a reason for this exodus.


 * References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button):


 * Bostom, Andrew G. The Legacy of Islamic Antisemitism: From Sacred texts to Solemn History. Prometheus Books. 2008. ISBN 978-1-59102-554-2

Penrose sachdev (talk) 21:52, 29 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: the edit would need consensus first (something you cannot establish nor participate in any discussion about it). The article covers multiple groups and their different reasons for the migration. M.Bitton (talk) 22:11, 29 May 2024 (UTC)


 * so what am i allowed to say? and what's the point of edit request if you won't let me change anything Penrose sachdev (talk) 08:37, 30 May 2024 (UTC)


 * What I think should be changed (format using textdiff):

"Relations between jews and arabs have sometimes been difficult."


 * Why it should be changed:

Should give mroe context on jewish exodus.


 * References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button):


 * Bostom, Andrew G. The Legacy of Islamic Antisemitism: From Sacred texts to Solemn History. Prometheus Books. 2008. ISBN 978-1-59102-554-2

Penrose sachdev (talk) 19:52, 30 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please refrain from gaming the system by abusing the edit requests in order to push a POV (as evidenced by your previous edit requests). M.Bitton (talk) 21:18, 30 May 2024 (UTC)