Talk:Jill Valentine

dead citation
ref 120 and ref 121 are dead. Can someone lend a hand. GlatorNator (talk) 04:28, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Fixed. Since the references were archived, now that the original URL is dead I've switched to the archived version by default, by changing the 'url-status' parameter to 'dead', as is customary. Damien Linnane (talk) 05:45, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I think this source should be implemented at the article on why jill doesn't age, thou im not sure how to say it.  GlatorNator  (ᴛ) 12:39, 9 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I've added it in where I thought it fit best. Damien Linnane (talk) 01:54, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

@Damien Linnane The reference 138 "You Shoot Like A Girl!": The Female Protagonist in Action-Adventure Video Games" is dead, but I'm not sure what to do about this. 🍕  Boneless Pizza! 🍕 (🔔) 10:53, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I found an archive of the source: - However, it's using an SFN reference template. I can try switching it to citeweb unless someone is opposed. --  StarScream1007  ►Talk  12:13, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I'm not fussed either way, but I cant see anything wrong with just putting the archived version in the current citation, so I've done that in the meantime. :) Damien Linnane (talk) 01:46, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
 * A source from a further section doesn't have much stuff to say, would you check it? if its not valuable then I guess its safe to remove. 🍕  Boneless Pizza! 🍕 (🔔) 10:47, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
 * That's not enough information for me to take any action. Can you specify exactly which source, what it's currently backing up and why you think it doesn't say much? Damien Linnane (talk) 15:31, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
 * When you press ctrl+f, it has only one mention about the character from the source at Further reading section: "Real Boys Carry Girly Epics: Normalising Gender Bending in Online Games". Thou, or maybe it doesn't provide me a full page. 🍕  Boneless Pizza! 🍕 (🔔) 17:54, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Oh, when you said 'a source from a further section' I wasn't aware you were specifically referring to the only source in the "Further reading" section. I thought you just meant a section further down the page from where you were referring to earlier. But yes, now that you point it out it indeed doesn't say much. I'm integrating it into the body of the article in the only place it would fit. Damien Linnane (talk) 00:23, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Glad the article is looking really good. 🍕  Boneless Pizza! 🍕 (🔔) 01:05, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
 * @Damien Linnane one last thing; this may be a bit useful? I found a PC Gamer source while working at Barry Burton. It is stated that Jun Takeuchi helped create her character model and differentiate her from the other characters by giving her a "blue beret."  🍕  Boneless Pizza! 🍕 (🔔) 10:44, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
 * This is interesting, thanks. I've added it to the article. Damien Linnane (talk) 11:39, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
 * @Damien Linnane we got another source since Jill became have been voted as one of the best female character from capcom poll. I'm not sure if this needs to be added.  🍕  Boneless Pizza! 🍕 (🔔) 23:27, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Hi again. As this is a featured article, the threshold for sources is higher than just WP:RS. Sources must be high quality, and WikiProject Video games/Sources notes that while siliconera is reliable, it is not high quality. I'm also hesitant to use the Capcom poll itself as it's a primary source. If a better quality video game publication has commented on Jill being in the poll, we can use it as a source, but even if you do find one we won't be adding anything to the prose from the source. There's a very strong and established consensus at WikiProject Video games not to add 'listicle' information to articles, for example, that Jill was 'voted the 6th most popular Capcom character'. The only place sources like this would ever be added is as an additional source after the sentence "described Jill Valentine among the most popular and iconic video game characters." So if you find a better quality source, you can add it in there, but there's plenty sources there already so it's not particularly necessary. Damien Linnane (talk) 03:38, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I see. I just thought about bringing this up to you since I was also hesitant of adding it. Thanks. 🍕  Boneless Pizza! 🍕 (🔔) 03:59, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

"Jill", not "Valentine"
Jill Valentine should be referred to throughout the article as "Jill", not "Valentine" (and similarly for other characters — "Chris", not "Redfield"). I understand it's polite convention to refer to people by their last names, but this is not typically afforded to fictional characters. Per MOS:LASTNAME: "For fictional entities, use common names. For example, Jason, Luigi, and Wesker."

The common shortened name for Jill Valentine is "Jill". That's how she's consistently referred to in the games, films and related media. So the article should reflect that. — Kawnhr (talk) 03:26, 31 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Pinging Aoba47, since they reverted the change. — Kawnhr (talk) — Kawnhr (talk) 03:43, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

The current wording at MOS:LASTNAME was actually suggested by myself, after I discovered there was a clear consensus at WikiProject Video games that video game characters should be referred to by their common names. See this discussion. Damien Linnane (talk) 04:35, 31 October 2023 (UTC)


 * "Jill" appears to be the most used name in sources, so I support using that. Popcornfud (talk) 09:24, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for bringing this to the talk page. I primarily reverted the change as I believed it should be discussed first. I am okay with my revert being reverted since agrees with the change and there is a consensus for using first names for fictional characters. I do not have strong feelings either way about it. Aoba47 (talk) 13:12, 31 October 2023 (UTC)


 * I definitely don't oppose the change, but I don't have strong feelings about it either. She probably is referred to as Jill more often, but she is at least more recognisable as by her surname than other RE characters (I.e. Sheva Alomar) so I never considered referring to her by her last name to be an issue. This change will make it consistent with the other RE characters though. Damien Linnane (talk) 14:28, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the response. It would be ideal to have consistency with all the articles on the Resident Evil characters so that works for me. Aoba47 (talk) 14:44, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, consistency was the main reason I went and made the change. I've been touching up some of the other character pages, where they are always referred to by their given names, and saw this was out-of-step. — Kawnhr (talk) 16:15, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
 * That is understandable. I have reverted my revert as there is a consensus forming to use the first name rather than the last names. Thank you for your patience with this discussion. Aoba47 (talk) 17:00, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
 * No worries, happy to see an easy resolution. I admit I could have said more in my edit summary. — Kawnhr (talk) 19:46, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Agreed, and you are all good. I am always happy when a resolution is reached. Aoba47 (talk) 19:47, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

Popularity
According to Capcom's data from a poll they held recently, Jill is the company's 6th most-popular character; number #5 with men and #7 with women. The female character with the most votes internationally and at second place in Japan, after Chun-Li. Should some of this data be included in the article, or are they not noteworthy? PanagiotisZois (talk) 19:17, 12 June 2024 (UTC)


 * It was rejected. See at the end of second section or simply scroll up. 🍕  Boneless Pizza! 🍕 (🔔) 22:01, 12 June 2024 (UTC)


 * There's a strong and well-established consensus at WikiProject Video games that adding listicles that rank characters, such as by popularity, is poor-quality journalism and that it's embarrassing to include this information on Wikipedia. Instead we summarise things. So the article currently says Jill is "among the most popular and iconic video game characters" and then provides multiple listicle sources after this. We can also extract information from listicles to explain why the character is popular. I.e. what is currently written in the article: " Magazines praised her as the most likeable Resident Evil character,[listicle source] with the most believable and consistent story arc in the series.[listicle source]". But simply saying she is the 6th most-popular character according to a poll that doesn't explicitly clarify why she is considered popular is the kind of information we're actively trying to avoid as a project. Damien Linnane (talk) 02:47, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Make sense, well I also rewritten most of RE characters at reception as "among the most popular and iconic video game characters" or "Magazines praised her as the most likeable Resident Evil character" then omitted most of the text that are written like listicles for ex. you said "top 6th most-popular character according to a [magazine]" from the article Chris Redfield and especially Ada Wong. 🍕  Boneless Pizza! 🍕 (🔔) 02:56, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
 * @Damien Linnane she is set to appear at Universal Studios this year. Something to add   🍕  Boneless Pizza! 🍕 (🔔) 07:11, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I'm happy for you to add the information. To be honest I'm not looking for ways to expand any articles myself. I pretty much just monitor changes to my watchlist these days. Damien Linnane (talk) 12:23, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I didn't add the source that I provided above because I have no idea where or what to add wordings. Just in case if I am not very sure what to do, I usually ping you just in case hehe (Update: I already added it myself). Also, about the italicizing game and film titles per MOS:CONFORMTITLE, maybe I will work on it since it was brought up from Peer review/Ada Wong/archive1. 🍕 Boneless Pizza! 🍕 (🔔) 12:25, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
 * @Damien Linnane She is a playable character in DBD, not skin btw. 🍕  Boneless Pizza! 🍕 (🔔) 14:25, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks for clarifying. I'll change it. Damien Linnane (talk) 14:26, 14 July 2024 (UTC)