Talk:Jim Kacian

Untitled
I'm not sure why certain boxes have appeared and I'm having trouble making it better. Can anyone help? Suggestions greatly appreciated. Saucermoon (talk) 17:29, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Outside sources
I think this article can probably pass a notability test based on information from outside sources, but that needs to be done to correlate information from the lead and from the Life section. A section on critical analysis of the presented work would also help, as well as a reduction in the lists provided of work contriubuted. While the list provides help to find works by Kacian, it is too long and takes up too much space in the article. On the whole, a few sections should be condensed and only major works with critical analysis should be included in the article. I will look more at the subject later, but for now I think that it can be considered to be a notable article that is under construction.Mrathel (talk) 15:59, 15 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree in general with Mrathel's comments above. I've done a bit of superficial tidying and npov'ing, but there remains much to be done. The tone remains gushing, and reminiscent of a fan site. There is a considerable amount of repetition. Specifically, there are a number of two links to www.simplyhaiku.com which link to the journal's front page when they should be pointing at a specific subpage in its archives. --Yumegusa (talk) 13:00, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Thank you both for your suggestions. I'm finally finding my way around wikipedia and I will make a more drastic clean-up as soon as possible. Saucermoon (talk) 19:26, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * It looks much better as it is. the citations I added earlier were too tedious, but they were really meant to clean up the article's text and free it of the long list of sources. At present, I think we can remove the under construction tag and not have to worry about whether or not it has satisfied WP:Notability, but more work needs to be done to add sourced material. Mrathel (talk) 14:49, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks again! I'm really beginning to see what you mean about supplying credits and not being overly splashy, just the important facts. I want to add a photo, but I don't know how to do that either. Can you explain that a bit. I have permission from the person who took the photo. Smiles, Saucermoon (talk) 02:35, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

he helped inaugurate the national haiku societies of several countries...
This article is coming together nicely. I've been toning down some of the more over-enthusiastic language and adding citations, and am now trying to find refs to "he helped (in 2000) inaugurate the national haiku societies of several countries (Australia, Bulgaria, Macedonia, Serbia, Slovenia)" which is a fairly substantial claim and so needs support. On the "about" page at the website of the Australian Haiku Society mention of Kacian is curiously absent, and we read simply, "In December, 2000, Australian haiku enthusiasts banded together to form HaikuOz"; regarding Slovenia, we read on the site of the German Haiku Society that "The Haiku Club of Slovenia (HCS) was set up in September 1997" i.e. 3 years prior to Kacian's trip; in Serbia, there are two societies: the Aleksandar Nejgebauer Haiku Club was formed in 1993 according to their page on Templibres, and the Serbian Haiku Society was founded in 2004, according to this page on Tempslibres. According to this page on WHC, the Bulgarian Haiku Club was formed in 1999.

In light of all the above, we're going to need something more than a statement from Kacian himself if we want to retain this claim. Can anyone help?--Yumegusa (talk) 11:47, 20 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Xenoneonx, you've cited Please see, [ http://kacian.gendaihaiku.com/aroundtheworld.html "Around the World as Briefly as Possible" ]  in response to the above, but that is authored by the subject, and as such won't cut it in the absence of corroborating material which as I pointed out appears to be strikingly lacking. Please read WP:RS. Let's find a reliable source or delete the statement. --Yumegusa (talk) 17:01, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Stylus says: "Amid cake and chat at Rosanna Licari's house in Brisbane, the amiable Jim Kacian, haiku guru and envoy for the emerging World Haiku Association, explained that we might miss the world haiku bus if we had no national body." The WHA page is penned by Kacian, so cannot be described as an independent, reliable source, thus is useless for our purposes here; Kuni's page mentions Kacian in passing, but, as far as I can see, makes no mention of the subject matter for which you are using it as a support.
 * Saucermoon, I see you've replaced the ref to Kacian's 'Around the world' speech, but I can't see how this helps. Looking at the three new refs,


 * If there is any way these texts support the statement: "in August of that year (Kacian) embarked on a trip around the world promoting haiku, during which time he spoke and/or taught haiku and/or helped inaugurate haiku associations or productions in several countries including: Australia, Bulgaria, Japan, Macedonia, Serbia, and Slovenia", then please explain.


 * I really hope you don't think I'm being obstructive. I think you've done great work putting this article together. But we have to play by the rules: if a statement cannot be supported by independent, reliable sources then it has no place in the article. It would be really useful if you engaged here in this discussion. --Yumegusa (talk) 01:05, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

It's okay and very helpful. I'll just keep looking. I know I'll find something. For now we can remove the 'around the world' statement if that is the thing to do (?) and I'll work on it in my word file until I get it right. Thanks for your hard work. Saucermoon (talk) 04:44, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Major thanks to whomever went in and polished the site! I haven't learned how to do everything yet, but with all your help it is shaping up nicely. I hope others agree. Thanks again! Smiles, Saucermoon (talk) 19:35, 23 December 2008 (UTC)


 * You're welcome, Saucer. If, on the article page, you click on the "History" tab up top, you can see a list of each of the edits, and you can compare the article before and after each edit, to see who did what. It's a very useful tool. I still think the artcile could be a bit leaner in places, but I agree with you that with the combined work of several editors the article is taking shape nicely.--Yumegusa (talk) 19:57, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

white lies
Saucermoon has added this line to the list of Kacian's works: However a quick Google search suggests that that ISBN appears to belong to white lies: The Red Moon Anthology of English-Language Haiku 2008. Can someone provide clarification? --Yumegusa (talk) 07:50, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) road of stone (Red Moon Press, 2009) ISBN 978-1-893959-80-4
 * Just checked Worldcat. This ISBN definitely belongs to White Lies, not to road of stone. --Yumegusa (talk) 16:55, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Searched Red Moon Press for that title without success, so I'm provisionally removing mention of road of stone from the article. --Yumegusa (talk) 17:15, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Bad ISBN
Because it is causing a Checkwiki error #70: "ISBN with wrong length", I removed the ISBN from the entry:

palimpsest (Red Moon Press, 2011), ISBN 978-1-9368458-05-8

I have tried unsuccessfully to locate the correct ISBN on the Internet. On Red Moon Press' website, palimpsest returns zero hits, and the list of publications for Jim Kacian does not include palimpsest. WorldCat returns similar results. Knife-in-the-drawer (talk) 15:04, 26 May 2015 (UTC)


 * thanks for catching this, the correct isbn is 978-1-936848-05-8 https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=978-1-936848-05-8 6directions (talk) 14:30, 8 July 2023 (UTC)