Talk:Jim Lovell/Archive 1

Record?
"It is also possible that he holds the record (with his Apollo 13 crewmates) for farthest distance a human has travelled from Earth.[citation needed]"

How is this a record distance? Moon landing flights orbited the moon many times; 13 only once.

trezjr 12:00, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
 * He's talking about the furthest distance away from earth, not total distance traveled. As to whether it's true in 13's case, I don't know. Rlevse 12:09, 4 November 2006 (UTC)


 * See the Apollo 13 article for more on this. The Guinness Book of World Records Records counts them as having gone farthest from the Earth. While it is known that their loop behind the moon was the farthest beyond the moon, the issue that the Moon's distance from the Earth varies by more than the greater orbital height gives some question to this... Naraht 12:20, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

record
then it's not a fact worthy of being in the article, is it?

trezjr 12:15, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't say that, but I'm not overly worried about if it is or isn't in the article. But I do agree it needs a cite. As to why the bio people haven't rated it, I don't know. I'm with the Scouting project and we've rated it. With a little work, it'd be an easy Good Article vice B article. Rlevse 12:17, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

i can submit it; takes 1 minute. do you want to work on it some more first? a "b" is given to almost everything; working for '"a" is much harder. i've only gotten 1; there's only a handful. go to: Category:A-Class biography (arts and entertainment) articles. trezjr 12:27, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Look at recent FAs and you'll see what it needs. A good lead that summarizes the article is one thing. I'll work on it over the next few days a bit. You don't need a new section for every reply on the talk page either.Rlevse 12:49, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

en route
Is there a particular reason to choose french "en route" over english "on the way" in the sentence "which suffered an explosion en route to the Moon"? - IIIIIIIII (talk) 23:15, 18 April 2009 (UTC) yes, enroute is typically an aviation term one utilizes to refer to an aircraft in the realm of flight from origination to destination. I suspect many terms referring to spaceflight have had their origins derived from aviation. Scubam —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.48.65.148 (talk) 01:50, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Neil Armstrong crew swap
I commented out the paragraph about the Apollo 8/9 backup crew swap resulting in Armstrong becoming the first man to land on the Moon instead of Conrad. It's interesting, but out of scope of Lovell's biography. It probably should be put elsewhere, but where? JustinTime55 (talk) 14:51, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Armstrong's page?
 * Apollo Program? -- doesn't seem to have a page on crew rotations, like the Project Gemini page does.
 * Apollo 11?

Real astronauts don't "blast off"
The term "blast off" is a layman's word that only occurs in science fiction (mainly cartoons.) NASA uses the term liftoff to describe the launch of a rocket. If "took off" is unsatisfactory, I think the smoothest wording would be "Lovel launched aboard Apollo 13 ..." JustinTime55 (talk) 17:20, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
 * "Took off" is unsatisfactory, imho, "blasted off" a little better, "lifted off" the best I can think of at the moment. I'm not sure about using "launch" as an intransitive verb without a receiver;  "launched moonward" works grammatically, but sounds dorky.  Could say "was launched"--too passive.  Without rewriting the whole thing, how about "lifted off"?  Just FYI--not arguing but adding info--I didn't think "blasted off" was all that good, myself, and here's exactly what you meant.  However, although it originally occurred in sci-fi, it doesn't only  occur in sci-fi: dictionary, NASA here and here, CSA.   Regards, --Yopienso (talk) 23:04, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Justin, for changing it to "lifted off." That was fairly important to me.  I've changed your rewrite because "Lovell lifted off aboard Apollo 13 on April 11, 1970 with CM Pilot Jack Swigert and LM Pilot Fred Haise, with whom he planed [sic] to land on the Moon" sounded to me as if all three were landing on the Moon. (Yes, I know you didn't mean that!) If you don't like the passive voice in "He and Haise were to land on the Moon," feel free to edit.  Regards, --Yopienso (talk) 00:59, 22 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks. I wasn't totally happy with the way it ended up; a separate sentence is clearest, and the way you wrote it is OK. This proves there's a practical limit to how far one can go in stringing a compound sentence. JustinTime55 (talk) 15:34, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

Error in section Apollo 8
The text says: "Lovell later replaced Michael Collins as CMP on the Apollo 9 prime crew." It should say "Apollo 8". Claudiodib (talk) 23:50, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

I don't believe so; this crew was originally supposed to fly on Apollo 9. Do you have a source which verifies Collins' replacement happened after the mission swap? JustinTime55 (talk) 16:39, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Tributes
Chattanooga Metropolitan Airport is also called Lovell Field. The Chattanooga Times reported on April 24, 1929 that the new airport would be named Lovell Field in honor of John Lovell.http://www.chattanoogan.com/articles/article_155237.asp 64.178.238.245 (talk) 20:58, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
 * 1929? What, they were celebrating him turning 1? Ah: "Col. W.L. Dargue, in charge of Army aviation for the Southeast, was a guest of honor who landed on the field with John Lovell, chairman of the Chamber of Commerce, as a passenger.... The Chattanooga Times reported on April 24, 1929 that the new airport would be named Lovell Field in honor of John Lovell."  Not the subject of this article, Jim Lovell. TJRC (talk) 22:25, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

Apollo 13 accident was not an explosion
So everyone is clear, if you have a problem with my update, please take some time to read Apollo 13 or at least its discussion thread Talk:Apollo 13. Everyone, perhaps even Jim Lovell himself, might have thought it was an explosion when it happened, and ground control feared damage to the Service Module engine or heat shield, but NASA's official, scientific investigation called it a rupture (which was actually the tank's designed response to extreme overpressure, in order to prevent a fragmentation "explosion".)

This is analogous to what happened when the Space Shuttle Challenger was destroyed; it certainly looked and sounded to the whole world like an "explosion" and was reported as such at the time, but again we now know that is not what really happened. And references in Wikipedia are careful not to descibe it as such. JustinTime55 (talk) 13:03, 23 March 2010 (UTC)


 * The discussion thread mentioned above by JustinTime55 above is now at Talk:Apollo 13/Archive 1 - 220.101.30  talk \edits (aka 220.101) 21:04, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Edit request on 27 January 2013
In the Navy section it states "In January 1958, he entered a six-month test pilot training course at the Naval Air Test Center (now the U.S. Naval Test Pilot School) at Naval Air Station Patuxent River, Maryland (also known as Pax River), along with Charles (Peter) Conrad and Wally Schirra."

Please Change "at the Naval Air Test Center (now the U.S. Naval Test Pilot School) " to "at the Naval Air Test Center's (now the Naval Air Warfare Center Aircraft Division) United States Naval Test Pilot School|U.S. Naval Test Pilot School]"

Source is personal involvement: The Naval Air Test Center (NATC) was changed to the Naval Air Warfare Center Aircraft Division (NAWCAD) in the 1990/1991 timeframe. The Test Pilot School is part of NATC and now is part of NAWCAD. It is also part of NAWCAD's Naval Test Wing Atlantic

Vargora (talk) 21:03, 27 January 2013 (UTC)


 * I changed it to say "at what was then..." The article is about Jim Lovell.  The article mentions what the place was called when he wen there and it links to the current United States Naval Test Pilot School.  Anyone interested in learning more about that school should follow the link and learn more.  We don't need to spell out exactly what division/center the organization is now part of, that's not within the scope of this article, in my opinion.  Banaticus (talk) 20:02, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

Lovell Museum of Science
This place does not exist and the link for the citation is broken. I believe it refers to Discovery World, which used to be located on James Lovell St and has since moved (and has no other link to Mr. Lovell, nor has it ever been named after him). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 170.135.176.108 (talk) 16:33, 27 August 2013 (UTC)


 * The deadlinked citation can still be seen via the Wayback machine at, but it's not very persuasive; it's an online review by an uptake.com user.


 * Interesting. The museum's web site at discoveryworld.org doesn't seem to mention Lovell at all, and certainly doesn't use the name "Lovell Museum of Science".


 * However, a 1999 blurb about the museum in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, the leading local newspaper, calls it "Discovery World -- The James Lovell Museum of Science, Economics and Technology".


 * Likewise, several (as in hundreds, it looks like) published books refer to the museum using the Lovell name; here are a couple examples:


 * Maybe the museum was renamed when it moved from Lovell street? The article on Discovery World says "When the museum moved to Milwaukee's lakefront in 2006, it changed its name to Discovery World at Pier Wisconsin." I wonder if it dropped the Lovell name at the same time. TJRC (talk) 20:17, 27 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Note: I've made this edit based on my findings above. TJRC (talk) 20:38, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 March 2014
Lovell also appeared in the 2005 documentary “Race to the Moon,” which was shown as part of the PBS American Experience series. The film, renamed in 2013 as “Earthrise: The First Lunar Voyage,” centered on the events that led up to NASA’s Apollo 8 mission.

Big Ocean Films (talk) 21:44, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. — &#123;&#123;U&#124;Technical 13&#125;&#125; (t • e • c) 22:09, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Judging from these edits,, , . it looks like that's the text he wants inserted. Seems borderline spam to me, and obviously ("EARTHRISE: APOLLO 8 AND THE FIRST LUNAR VOYAGE... PRODUCER: Big Ocean / Indigo Studios Inc.") "Big Ocean Films" has a big honking WP:COI issue here. TJRC (talk) 23:01, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

Tributes
Can someone edit/combine the two statements about the Milwaukee street named after Lovell? My account is too new and there is only one street named after him in Downtown Milwaukee, which is a section of North 7th Street Libbybees (talk) 04:23, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Done. Please me know if my edits need further adjustment. Welcome to Wikipedia, and thanks for your request!  --Yopienso (talk) 05:46, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

I grew up in Elk GroveVillage, IL on (Frank) Borman Court. It was nice, but after Apollo 13 I was jealous of my friend who lived on LOVELL Court. Please update to include this street? Also, as an aside, back in the 70's the local park used to have what I believed to be real "part" from a NASA mission. Maybe a command module? We could play in it. Awesome. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.50.25.165 (talk)
 * Wikipedia publishes information that can be verified using reliable sources. I would recommend being bold and adding the information yourself if possible; failing that, if you can provide a source I'll see if I can add it for you. DonIago (talk) 15:26, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

Biography assessment rating comment
The article was rate B article. It could use more information about his Navy and NASA career. His priority is high, because he shares the honor of being first person to leave the Earth's influence along with the rest of the crew of Apollo 8-- Abebenjoe 04:30, 26 March 2007 (UTC)


 * As I post this in April 2015, the article does still not say in what field(s) he received his college degree(s). 5Q5 (talk) 16:10, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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Semi-protected edit request on 22 December 2015
On November 13, 2008, Lovell and fellow Apollo 8 crew members Frank Borman and Bill Anders appeared at the Smithsonian's National Air and Space Museum to discuss the Apollo 8 mission. The event was webcast lives down archived on the Museum's YouTube channel. The three former astronauts later appeared together for a panel discussion centering on Apollo 8 at the Lyndon Baines Johnson Library on April 23, 2009, a discussion that was videotaped by C-SPAN.[34]

73.171.126.202 (talk) 01:31, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
 * No specific change provided. DonIago (talk) 13:39, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

World War II Victory Medal?
I'm not sure how he would be awarded the WWII Victory Medal as he did not appear to have served in the military during the War, in fact would not have been old enough to (not that others didn't get around this) and did not even graduate from Annapolis until 1948. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:1c0:5000:67b3:a442:ed07:6964:13b1 (talk • contribs) 23:09, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
 * He probably technically qualified because of the "Flying Midshipman" program which paid for his last two years of college (1946-48) in exchange for a Navy commitment. The window on the Victory Medal did not close until Dec. 31, 1946 because that was the date Truman officially ended hostilities; Lovell would have been considered a reservist. (BTW, his bio says he entered Anapolis in 1948, not graduated.) JustinTime55 (talk) 14:19, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

Locked for more than three years now
Are the socks still banging at the doors? If not, please unlock.-217.248.32.212 (talk) 13:47, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request - Highest altitude record - reference source
Reference in Apollo 13 section for sharing the highest altitude record provides no source, and is now just an archived PDF:

Replace with the ref for the same fact from the Apollo 13 article:

203.32.82.152 (talk) 23:18, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks! The archived PDF is an acceptable source I think. I've added the suggested ref, however. — Andy W. ( talk  · ctb) 05:39, 16 May 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 31 January 2017
Hi there!

I am requesting that the sentence "Due to her husband often being absent from the home because of training and missions, Marilyn was in charge of taking care of their household and four children." be removed from the Family Life section.

Reason being is that it adds nothing to the article except offend today's stay-at-home parents. It insinuates that stay-at-home parents then and today are not working. Believe me they are. In addition, few mothers in the 1960's-1970's would work out of the home as there were no day care centers with buses taking children from school to child care, nor were nannies the norm.

Thanks for considering from this very hard worker-

Melina Byers Stay-at-home parent of two MamaHB (talk) 12:28, 31 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the template.  B E C K Y S A Y L E S  06:22, 3 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Is this actually offensive? If it said something like "she didn't work; she just stayed home with their kids", then I would agree.  However, it seems to be factual and worded neutrally.  (Of course, it would be easier to defend if I could find the same statement in the cited reference, but it's a dead link.)  I recommend no change, but I will spend some time looking for better sources for the "Marriage and family" section. Johnson487682 (talk) 16:20, 3 February 2017 (UTC)


 * I don't find it offensive, merely factual; and if anything, it demonstrates the dedication of both Lovells, Jim and Marilyn. TJRC (talk) 00:01, 4 February 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified
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First paragraph
Needs a little work. The first paragraph reads "but was brought back safely to Earth by the efforts of the crew and mission control." This comes across as if he did nothing. When you hear the tapes of the mission he did a lot as did Fred Haise & Jack Swigert. It was a complete team effort. I'm not sure what it should be changed to. But I brought back my luggage when I went on a vacation. I brought back souvenirs. This sentence needs a little more finesse than just "but was brought back" How to use, but was brought back The plage was running rampant but was brought back to the mainland without anyone knowing. If anything (but) should be changed to (and) but, implies something.

and with his efforts along with his two crewmates and mission control. Made it safely back to Earth. Maybe something like that. I've got two "and" in it so that's not well written either. but it comes across a lot better and adds him to everything they did. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ezz9 (talk • contribs) 13:23, 25 November 2017 (UTC)

External links modified (January 2018)
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Apollo 13 (film)
So the film is discussed in two separate sections currently. Any thoughts on whether we should consolidate? DonIago (talk) 14:14, 19 December 2018 (UTC)

Adding a needed source
I suggest to improve this article by adding some required sources in the second paragraph of the Gemini program section and by rephrasing certain sentences for better accuracy. This edit will also contribute to the 1 Librarian, 1 Reference campaign (#1Lib1Ref)

The references are : Andrew Chaikin. A Man on the Moon: The Voyages of the Apollo Astronauts. Penguin Books, 2007, p.51 and NASA Space Science Data Coordinated Archive. Gemini 12. https://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/nmc/spacecraft/display.action?id=1966-104A Every comments are welcomed. Here is my suggested edit for the second paragraph :

Lovell was later scheduled to be the backup command pilot of Gemini 10. But after the deaths of the Gemini 9 prime crew Elliot See and Charles Bassett, he replaced Thomas P. Stafford as backup commander of Gemini 9A. This change on the crew rotation schedule resulted in Lovell's assignment as Command Pilot abord the last planned mission of the program, Gemini 12. Alongside Pilot Buzz Aldrin, Lovell performed orbital rendezvous and docking with an Agena target vehicule during a flight that lasted for 59 orbits between November 11 and 15, 1966. The mission primary goals were successfully accomplished and helped the program to reach it's objectives to develop onboard navigation and earth orbit maneuvering in addition to paving the way for the Apollo program. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dan T Qc (talk • contribs) 04:20, 5 February 2019 (UTC)


 * Pending-protection-unlocked.svg Not done: According to the page's protection level you should be able to edit the page yourself. If you seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details.   Alucard 16  ❯❯❯ chat?    13:10, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

Inclusion
Anyone can answer, but asking and  opinions: the article has Lovell being on the cover of Time and Life under the Awards and decorations section; this is the first time I have seen that included in an astronaut article. I own a couple of magazines with other astronauts on the cover, and it is not mentioned in their article. For consistency, remove from this article, or add to the other articles?  Kees08  (Talk)   05:57, 2 May 2019 (UTC) Repinging since I whiffed...  Kees08  (Talk)   05:58, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
 * I'm inclined to say keep it in. Your post reminded me of seeing Scott Kelly on the cover of Time, and that I didn't include it on his page.  Looking at the timing of when he was on the cover, it immediately followed widely-reported missions. I see no reason not to include it; being on the cover of Time and Life are signficant, and we can add it to other biographies where it is applicable. Balon Greyjoy (talk) 08:41, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

Other possible inclusion could be the phosphorescent algae Lovell followed to find the carrier at night, referred to in the film. TGCP (talk) 20:27, 18 June 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 June 2019
change en to on 85.92.163.251 (talk) 15:44, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
 * ❌ "en route" is correct. See en route. Naraht (talk) 15:51, 24 June 2019 (UTC)

Make this article a featured article
Hi guys,

As lots of American astronauts are already good or featured articles, I'm sure someone has the means and would enjoy making this article a featured article.

Thanks,

Calvinsky (talk) 15:11, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 Dec 2020
Add "In 2020, the sci-fi series The_Expanse_(TV_series) showed a fly by of a city on Lunar (the moon) named Lovell City (S5E1)" to the ==In Popular Culture== section.
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. – robertsky (talk) 20:07, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

Too much Conrad
There are too many mentions to "Conrad" in this article. He has his own article. There is no reason for statements or appendages like "...as was Conrad." That is SO SO inappropriate. Who wrote that? Someone please delete that, or I will. 73.6.96.168 (talk) 15:06, 2 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Have removed one mention of Pete Conrad, the others seem fine. Which mentions do you find excessive? Thanks. Randy Kryn (talk) 15:57, 2 May 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 November 2021
In the Apollo 1 section, the following sentence has a spelling error: "After the serice, White was laid to rest in the West Point Cemetery, with Lovell serving as a pallbearer, along with Armstrong, Borman, Conrad, Stafford and Aldrin."

It should be "After the service", not "After the serice" -- Withzombies (talk) 02:58, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
 * ✅ ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 03:51, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request
This sentence in the lede "In 1968, as command module pilot of Apollo 8, he became, with Frank Borman and William Anders, one of the first three astronauts to fly to and orbit the Moon." seems jumbled to me, probably because of the multiple commas.

My suggestion: "In 1968, as command module pilot of Apollo 8, he became one of the first three astronauts to fly to and orbit the Moon alongside crewmates Frank Borman and William Anders."

Alternatively: "In 1968, as command module pilot of Apollo 8, he and crewmates Frank Borman and William Anders became the first three astronauts to fly to and orbit the Moon." - User:KiraLiz1 &#124; she/her 11:12, 19 April 2022 (UTC)


 * (I just realized that the semi-protected edit restrictions do not actually apply to me, but I'd still like input on which of these is best.) User:KiraLiz1 &#124; she/her 11:28, 19 April 2022 (UTC)