Talk:Jimmie Nicol

Liverpool
Not sure about the playing in a Liverpool band bit. My research has him living in London at the time he was approached to stand in for Ringo. Epstein and Martin discussed the possibility of using a stand in, and Martin suggested Nicol as he had recently done a Tommy Quickly session with him. Nicol had also drummed on a budget label album called "Beatlemania" and knew the songs. The whole thing happened very quickly, from a phone call to attend a run through at Abbey Road studios to packing his bags all in the same day. Nicol used Ringo's suit and apparently had to peg the jacket! He thought that after this he would be made for life but just like Pete Best he was to realise that you were either in or out, there was nothing in between. Actually, I would be quite happy to research this properly if anyone thinks that it would be useful. I will need advice though as I am a novice on Wikipedia. --Patthedog 10:04, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Ok, went ahead with some edits verified from two sources. --Patthedog 17:02, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Son
The last half of the article seems to be a rewrite of this. It mentions a son, Howard, a sound engineer "who in the 1990s was to win an award as sound engineer for his work on a BBC collection of Beatles recordings". It must be a reference to the "Beatles Live at the BBC" album that came out in 1994. That fact should be verifiable but I can't find anything on Google about an engineer called Howard winning an award for this album; it was nominated for a Grammy, and it was remastered from the original tapes, so it's entirely possible that someone won something for engineering the record. Could this be the chap? Roughly the same date of birth, "engineer", same name. -Ashley Pomeroy 16:31, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Alright, if it's not verifiable, then it must be taken out. Go ahead.--Patthedog 21:50, 9 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I just noticed Howie Nicol credited as Sound Recordist in the end credits to episode 3 of The Beatles Anthology. IMDB listing here Haven' looked into it any further than that yet, just thought I'd mention it. Caixa (talk) 00:17, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
 * According to the Nothing is Real podcast, Howie Nicol won a BAFTA for his work on the anthology. It was also Howie who started the rumour that Jimmie had died.
 * In the Get Back film, John, Paul and George recalled that Jimmie didn't know how to start She Loves You - which starts with a sort of stutter on the drums. They'd count it in and there would be silence from Jimmie! Apepper (talk) 19:29, 13 July 2022 (UTC)

Bill Wellings / The Kopycats / Johnny Harris
--212.139.245.247 (talk) 23:03, 20 February 2012 (UTC)== Bill Wellings / Coppycats / Johnny Harris == --Boogiejuice (talk) 22:14, 15 February 2012 (UTC)== Jimmie's credits written by Mojo regarding his Top 6 album are total rubbish. ==

They are not The Kopycats, a totally different band. Please redo my first edit thanks. Darren — Preceding unsigned comment added by Boogiejuice (talk • contribs) 16:02, 15 February 2012 (UTC) --Boogiejuice (talk) 22:14, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

--Boogiejuice (talk) 22:16, 15 February 2012 (UTC)== Top 6 pocket money releases ==

Should be mentioned that Top 6's selling point is the price - designed for tennage girls who could not afford real Beatles records but still wanted the same songs performed just as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Boogiejuice (talk • contribs) 21:55, 15 February 2012 (UTC) --Boogiejuice (talk) 22:15, 15 February 2012 (UTC)--Boogiejuice (talk) 22:16, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

--Boogiejuice (talk) 22:16, 15 February 2012 (UTC)== Johnny Harris talks about Top 6 Beatlemania ==

In my interview published by Warner Bros. on the Movements CD/2LP 2002. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Boogiejuice (talk • contribs) 22:05, 15 February 2012 (UTC) --Boogiejuice (talk) 22:16, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

Hi Boogiejuice, nice to have you here. I’ve obviously noticed your recent edits and I would like to comment, if that’s ok. (BTW, researching Jimmie has been like pulling hens teeth, so any useful info is appreciated.) I deleted the Bill Wellings ref as technically he could be considered non-notable in this case (i.e. doesn’t have a wikipedia article, and therefore cannot be linked). I assume he is a composer / arranger? You’ve also inserted a ref as further reading to the Johnny Harris “Movements” CD, so that might be bit confusing - what exactly is that interview, and is it still freely available? Were the Beatles covers on which Jimmie played an EP called “Beatlemania” and, if so, what is “Teenagers Choice” - is that just a category then? You removed the Mojo ref suggesting the info from it was poor, yet you’ve left most of it intact in the article and instead credited it to Darren Stuart, so that needs clarifying only because the Mojo article can at least be referenced. And finally, who were The Kopycats? Many thanks, --Patthedog (talk) 13:59, 19 February 2012 (UTC)--


 * Bill Wellings was the producer of the Beatlemania records, he should have IS OWN entry as he produced hundreds of records in the UK as "A BWD PRODUCTION". JH is interviewed in the CD liner notes by me and talks about making the Beatlemania record, it's deleted but easy to get on AMAZON. Top 6 records were marketed to the public as “Teenagers Choice” as stated. The Mojo article said the band were The Kopycats. WRONG!! This was an un-credited session band from Germany also making Beatles covers. This was the only detail they mentioned and was wrong, the rest was obvious info and did not need changing. You can reference the rubbish MOJO write if you prefer. Or you can reference someone who knows the subject.


 * Thanks, but really no need to write in block capitals as it comes across as shouting. The reason Bill Wellings has yet to have an article here is because no one has got around to it; perhaps you could start one? Regarding Jimmie, I’ll do a bit more research and try and work into the article the things you’ve mentioned. So, does it boil down to this: you (DS I presume) interviewed Johnny Harris, ex-Shubdubs, who was able to talk about Jimmie Nicol’s experience as part of a German session band, the band responsible for “Beatlemania” and if so, that is your connection regarding Jimmie Nicol? It would also be interesting to know how Jimmie got involved with a German session band, and where they did their recording (UK or Germany?) The main problem with your liner notes I’m afraid is that it’s difficult to verify, being as the CD is no longer available. So we might need to put back the Mojo ref as well as keeping yours, as at least that is on file somewhere, and so is accessible, and which references everything reasonably accurately (apart from The Kopycats which you dispute, and which we’ll leave out for now, although technically Mojo ought to be regarded as a reliable source; why do you call it rubbish?). Anyway, thanks again as your input is appreciated.--Patthedog (talk) 20:00, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

--Boogiejuice (talk) 21:05, 21 February 2012 (UTC)I wrote in capitals just names and the major error published by Mojo. The Kopycats were a German session band and have nothing to do with Jimmie Nicol or Top 6 Beatlemania which was recorded in London. In the CD liner notes JH confirms he made the Top 6 records so proving The Kopycats is completly wrong. Just lazy research by Mojo, they just picked a name of a band who made Beatles covers at the same time - this Kopycats band was published by the Fontana label, not Top 6 label. The CD is available online, in fact i have a copy for sale. ;-) All i've really said is Beatlemania is made by Johnny Harris and produced by Bill Wellings. Both these facts are named on the label of the Beatlemania EP so really i can't be wrong. It's comman knowledge that Jimmie was the drummer and one of the reasons he got the job as a temporary Beatle is because he'd made these records just before and already knew the drum parts as part of this UK band. Not The Kopycats!! --Boogiejuice (talk) 21:06, 21 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Right! I misunderstood the Kopycat thing, sorry. I got that they weren’t Jimmie’s band, but still thought that Jimmie had something to do with a German outfit! Any idea who else played and sang on Beatlemania? Jimmie’s gone to ground now it seems, but do you ever hear any news about him through the grapevine? Perhaps you could reprint the relevant parts of your liner notes here – they could be of interest. --Patthedog (talk) 21:45, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

--Boogiejuice (talk) 22:59, 21 February 2012 (UTC)No worries, we got there in the end. ;-) I shall ask JH if he remembers anybody else? That info would be a worldwide first but he may not remember? Will dig out my CD. He talks about these Beatles covers being respected by Tony Hatch who then offered him a full time arranger/conductor job that started his career. So a very important record for JH which is why i want to correct the entry.--Boogiejuice (talk) 22:59, 21 February 2012 (UTC) --Boogiejuice (talk) 02:05, 22 February 2012 (UTC)Yes, it was on a label called Top Six, the EP contained six tracks and was put out by Pye Records.

The idea was for me to try and guess which six songs would be topping the charts about a month ahead. I would do the arrangements and then go into the studio and record sound a like's. The first EP released got to number 30 in the charts.

Jimmie was on drums, and as you can imagine we covered a lot of the Beatles songs. I can't remember any other names except one of the singers who's first name was Brett.

Sorry, that's about it.

Cheers,

Johnny. --Boogiejuice (talk) 02:05, 22 February 2012 (UTC)--Boogiejuice (talk) 02:44, 22 February 2012 (UTC) http://www.britishpathe.com/video/brett-young-at-recording-session/query/pop

so one of the Beatles singers is Brett Young.--Boogiejuice (talk) 02:44, 22 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Boogiejuice, is that statement above: “The idea was for me to try and guess which six songs would be topping the charts about a month ahead. I would do the arrangements and then go into the studio and record sound a like's. The first EP released got to number 30 in the charts. Jimmie was on drums, and as you can imagine we covered a lot of the Beatles songs. I can't remember any other names except one of the singers who's first name was Brett” directly from JH? If so, I’d like to put it into the article, or at least a cropped version. Do you think that would be ok with him? And thanks for the great link to Pathe, that would be a good link to add at the bottom do you think? Great stuff, thanks. --Patthedog (talk) 18:00, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

JH Quote
--Boogiejuice (talk) 17:41, 23 February 2012 (UTC)Yes that's a direct quote from JH so can be used, i was pleased to find the video. I don't know how interested Jimmie Nicol fans would be in a video of the singer of the Beatle songs, maybe it should go on the Johnny Harris page but whatever you prefer. It's obscure deep knowledge and a first. ;-)--Boogiejuice (talk) 17:41, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
 * well done, i have no complaints! --80.42.154.79 (talk) 01:25, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

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Beatles members category?
Since other temporary members of the Beatles are categorized as such, shouldn't Nicol be as well?--SupermanFan97 (talk) 00:19, 13 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Nicol was not a member, he was an employee, not unlike Steuart Smith with Eagles. WWGB (talk) 00:33, 13 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Exactly! This cannot be made clear enough, especially to certain session musicians hired to play on Beatle recordings who later whinged that the Fabs ‘made millions’ while they just got a standard fee. They’d get the same fee for their work on a record by a ‘nothing’ band that failed to chart. Would they give back the cash? Hire a builder, pay his fee, but he doesn’t get another payment when you sell your house. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:44B8:3102:BB00:CDB6:38DE:7626:B2CC (talk) 05:39, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
 * He performed as the bands drummer in eight concerts and one TV show at the height of Beatlemania (five more concerts than Norman Chapman and four more than Chas Newby). Drummed at eight of the 30 concerts of The Beatles' 1964 world tour. Seems to qualify. Randy Kryn (talk) 05:36, 15 February 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't agree with the concept of a "temporary members" section as I'm pretty sure they didn't consider themselves temporary members at the time. But I think, in this example, if all of the other full members consider someone an equal member then that qualifies which, in this instance with Nicol, doesn't meet that criteria. Patthedog (talk) 19:22, 20 February 2022 (UTC)
 * In 1964 he was a Beatle for eight of the 30 shows of their first major and historic international tour. Hired or not, he was a Beatle for a key part of their iconic 1964-65 exposure. Randy Kryn (talk) 03:05, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Are there any sources that state he was an actual official member of the band? Touring musicians, like session musicians, are hired for a specific time. Billy Preston recorded with the Beatles and received co-billing with the Beatles for Get Back/Don't Let Me Down (credited to The Beatles featuring Billy Preston). He was never an official member and he worked with the Beatles far longer and more significantly than Nichol. For eight shows Nichol was hired to play drums. I've never read anywhere that he became an official member. For the record I don't believe the other temporary musicians should be listed as members. The membership should be limited to the actual four Beatles plus Pete Best and Stuart Sutcliff, as they were official members of the band called the Beatles.  freshacconci  (✉) 15:36, 18 April 2022 (UTC)