Talk:Jin-Roh: The Wolf Brigade

The live action short films of Jin-Roh
Oshii made several of them years ago.Atatncnu 12:42, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

Ending
I don't agree with the ending displayed here, but wanted to give my reasons before changing it. "Jin-Roh" is a personal favorite and I've watched it quite a few times. I've never read an interpretation of the ending that suggests that Kei was shot by a sniper. The stare on Fuse's face that suggests he's lost his emotions and his soul, his body language, and the general narrative of the story (Fuse being unable to kill at the beginning; the Wolf eating up Red Riding Hood) pretty-much point to Fuse killing her.

I understand the confusion about the sniper. This is an Oshii movie. If there wasn't any confusion I'd be surprised. If you watch the scene again, the sniper has his weapon cocked and is putting it back on safety, implying that he was standing by to kill Kei and possibly Fuse as well if he was unable to carry out his duties. Palm_Dogg 00:14, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

I would agree, though at first I assumed the sniper killed her. As an added bit of evidence suggesting Fuse killed Kei, you can see smoke rising from the pistol Fuse is holding immediately after she's shot.--Lazybratsche 09:37, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Agreed, this needs to be changed. I'll do it in the near future if no one else has. I've run into a surprising number of people who are under the impression that the sniper, rather than Fuse, kills Kei at the end of the movie. This is unfortunate (in my opinion) in that it significantly alters the perceived tone of the narrative, but it's fairly clear upon close inspection that Fuse is the one who shoots Kei. jelo 02:23, 3 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree too, the sniper's gun isn't smoking, while (but you have to pay attention here) some smoke is visible when Kei falls to the ground. I understand why this is confusing, but the article really shouldn't say that it's definitely not Fuse.Evilbu 20:08, 4 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Even all the body language and the plot evidence aside, from technical standpoint it's clear that it's Fuse who shot her. There is smoke rising from under her body as she fall to the ground, with Fuse's gun being in the same place before his hand drops. Also, most importantly, as Palm Dogg mentioned, the sniper returns his Mauser's hammer into the original position after she was shot, and no smoke can be seen rising from his gun. Tani unit 00:33, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Clean-Up
Major props to everyone editing the Jin-Roh page, but it does need a clean-up. The page looks like a collection of tidbits without much organization, so I'll try to tighten it up and bring it more in line with the WikiProject Films, but will also make an effort not to change the content or do too many edits. Palm_Dogg 23:31, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

Did some edits for clarity, grammar, and conciseness, also inserted the reference to Bereitschaftpolizei since evidently none of the earlier authors were aware of this parallel to the movie's Capitol Police. Wombat socho (talk) 19:15, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Rotkäppchen story
In the movie the story of little red riding hood is different then the usual grandmother version. Is it possible for anyone who has the movie to write down that version and post it in the article?


 * It seems near-identical to the original (that is to say, presumed original, but likely itself a retelling or amalgamation of other stories) version of the story, except for the whole armor thing. I've heard versions of Little Red Riding Hood that included armor, as well as an iron shirt or corset, but they usually differed from the original in other ways. At any rate, I assume these are the official subs; didn't get a chance to rent it again, so had to settle for a download. If anyone could supply the Japanese version, or a link to an appropriate article on Wikipedia Japan, that'd probably enhance this further. I suppose a transcript of the German text visible onscreen might also have its uses.


 * The first excerpt we read, minor editing errors intact:
 * "Once upon a time, there was a little girl. Who had not seen her mother in 7 years. Her mother had dressed her in armor and told her: 'When this armor has been well worn, come see me'. So the girl rubbed the armor against the walls to wear it down. And when she finally succeeded... She took some milk, bread, cheese and butter and went off to visit her mother. In the woods, she met a wolf. The wolf asked her what she was carrying. 'Milk, bread, cheese and butter', she replied. So the wolf asked for some food, but the girl refused, because it was a present for her mother. The wolf asked the girl if she was taking the Path of Pins or the Path of Needles. 'The Path of Pins.' she replied. So the wolf ran along the Path of Needles and devoured the girl's mother. Finally, the girl arrived at her mother's house. 'Mother. Open the door!' 'Come right in. The door is unlocked' replied the wolf.


 * The second, unless I missed one. Precious little time on my hands, just skimming the movie, so I may well make a mistake or two:
 * "And what of the girl who had chosen the Path of Pins? [This may just be Fuse asking an aptly-phrased question] 'Come in, it's open' said the wolf. But the door remained closed, so she crept through a hole in the wall. 'Mother, I'm hungry.' 'There's meat in the cupboard.' It was the flesh of her mother, who had been slain by the wolf. A cat sitting on the cupboard said to her: 'You're eating your mother's flesh.' 'Mother, there's a cat on the cupboard who says that I've eaten your flesh.' 'It's lying, of course. Throw your shoe at it.' After finishing the meat, the girl was thirsty. 'Mother, I'm thirsty.' 'Drink the wine in the pitcher.' And so she drank. Then a bird perched on the chimney said to her: 'You're drinking your mother's blood. It's your mother's blood.' 'Mother, a bird on the chimney told me that I was drinking my mother's blood.' 'Throw your hood at it.' After having eaten the flesh and drunk the blood, the girl turned to her mother and said: 'Mother, I'm so very tired.' 'Come, lie down next to me.'"


 * Last of all, unless I missed yet more. Which I'm nearly certain I did; I recall the wolf's replies being mentioned in the film's version of the story. No quotation marks for any of the dialogue in the subs here:
 * "The girl got undressed and approached the bed, where her mother lay in a strange position, her face covered by a hood. Mother! My, what big ears you have. Mother! My what big eyes you have. Mother! My, what big claws you have. Mother! My, what big teeth you have. And so, the wolf devoured the Little Red Riding Hood."


 * So, yeah. Those seem about sequential, can't possibly be more than a line or two missing between them. Feel free to indent, capitalize, and punctuate that as you see fit. A string of subtitles does not a paragaph make. 82.166.48.20 21:02, 1 July 2006 (UTC)


 * there is a slight issue with that, as the story in the movie spoke of an unnamed authority figure who put Red into the iron clothing. i have edited it as such. the source is the movie as it has been localized to the United States. (152.65.72.172 (talk) 04:26, 29 August 2008 (UTC))

no SF but Retro fiction
this anime is not part of the "science fiction" genre but the "retro fiction" genre instead. The term exists in French as "Rétrofiction" and "Retro-Fiction", it probably exists in English too. Other Retro fiction anime are Kishin Heidan (great OAVs known as Kishin Corps in English anglophone countries), Steamboy and Osamu Tezuka's Metropolis. Shame On You 08:50, 23 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Science fiction (as it is used in English) encompasses a wide range of 'fantastic' fictional scenarios and, while Jin-Roh is certainly an alternate history, it also fits in the genre of science fiction

Fair use rationale for Image:Hellhoundsmanga.png
Image:Hellhoundsmanga.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 14:43, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Just read the article
Time to remove the "This article or section resembles a fan site." template? I dont think the article resembles a fan site at all. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.17.141.53 (talk) 21:04, 8 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree, and I removed the tag. In my opinion, Fancruft and especially Fancruft is not the case. --Cyfal (talk) 12:34, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Ending
So is it Kazuki that kills her at the end, or the sniper? Or is this left to the viewer to decide? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.153.204.101 (talk) 22:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I had to re-watch it because I wasn't sure either. But going back it's clear Kazuki did. While Kei is sliding down from his embrace, you can briefly see smoke from his Mauser pistol and its slide open. The guy in the shack was just in case Kazuki didn't follow through with it. --Dejitarob (talk) 08:30, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

Manga Impact
Manga Impact: The World of Japanese Animation, 6 December 2010, ISBN 978-0714857411; pg 105:

Jin-Roh Although directed by Okiura Hiroyuki, Jin-Roh was originally conceived by writer and film-maker Oshii Mamoru as a feature-length addition to the Kerberos saga that he began 1986. Before Jin-Roh, there was a series of radio broadcasts, manga and two live-action films, The Red Spectacles (1987) and Stray Dog: Kerberos Panzer Cops (1991), directed by Oshii himself. This fictitious universe has continued to expand ever since, and Oshii's vision has developed with rare consistency. The Kerberos world is an alternate reality in which Japan became a totalitarian society, where all rebellion is crushed by special units of heavily armed soldiers, their helmets emitting red light where their eyes should be. Although Mamoru Oshii intended to direct Jin-Roh himself, he eventually entrusted the screenplay to Okiura Hiroyuki, an exceptionally talented animator but a novice director, with whom he had collaborated on the two Patlabor films (1989 and 1993) as well as on Ghost in the Shell (1995). The result is as rich and complex as it is visually striking. A multilayered film overflowing with evocative correlations, Jin-Roh is a narrative palimpsest where political metaphors, a love story and variations on Little Red Riding Hood are all superimposed one over another. For the film's hero, an anti-terror policeman called Fuse Kazuki, everything revolves around a single, haunting image impossible to erase: that of a girl, a suicide bomber, whom he was unable to shoot dead before she detonated a bomb in the heart of Tokyo - an insoluble moral dilemma. Examining group psychology, military order and the roles that each individual is expected to fulfill, Jin-Roh is a profound and fundamentally pessimistic interrogation of identity, subjectivity, and otherness: an interrogation of what it is to be human. E.H. [Erwan Higuinen]

--Gwern (contribs) 19:49 23 December 2011 (GMT)

Massive cleanup
I just did a massive, massive cleanup of the article. The article looks like it was written for a fan wiki and goes into way more detail about the universe. I've trimmed it so that this page looks more like a traditional Wikipedia film page. The plot section is still too big. --Harizotoh9 (talk) 16:10, 24 August 2014 (UTC)

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Questionable translation
Source 14 is highly suspect. "He did not want to do another movie with dogs in it"? What the hell does that mean? The dogs and wolves in these movies aren't literal. Nukleon (talk) 00:58, 13 August 2023 (UTC)