Talk:Jingle All the Way

Criticised for satirizing everything that is wrong?
What? That makes no sense. I'm not even sure what whoever wrote that meant to say. (Not to mention the mixture of American and British spellings.) 67.22.194.36 00:10, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

I'd actually like to see where it was criticized for this, as in a source.--70.187.173.227 18:42, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Guess someone wanted to write a novel!
Way too long-whatever happened to the term "synopsis"?!160.81.133.194 19:23, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

this has got to be a joke. someone either has too much time on their hands or really liked this movie Melander 02:38, 22 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I wrote a much pithier plot. Dear, 69.122.155.216, I don't really think that such an enormous plot is necessary- do you? Bantosh 20:46, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

whenever
Whenever the edit ban is lifted please replace Twin Cities with Twin Cities. Thank you.--Appraiser 19:09, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Lawl
I'm kinda sad this page sucks because Jingle had probably the best and most scenes filmed within the Twin Cities compared to other films taking place in Mpls which featured generic stuff and sometimes actually in greater MN not here. I'm surprised no one has really done anything to that point which is why I come to Wikipedia for movie stuff in the first place. But yes please change it to Twin Cities .:DavuMaya:. 14:20, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Running time
Why is the running time listed as 103 min when it's really 88? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.253.64.213 (talk) 02:42, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Nosalgia Critic
I am removing the Comment regarding Nostalgia Critic's reaction to the movie from the reception section. NC is a funny guy, but I wouldn't put his opinion to the same level as that of Roger Ebert or any of the more widely known film critics. If his opinion is warranted in the article one could then also argue the opinion of countless internet-based critics to be used in reception sections of film articles as well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.253.69.199 (talk) 05:22, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Cast list dispute
For easy access: discussion on inclusion of a cast list between myself and, originally held largely between our talk pages. (If there is a fancier way of doing this, then someone can go right ahead) Gran2 22:32, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

History:
 * 1) February 2, 2011 - Article is made a GA; no cast list included, merely mentioned in plot
 * 2) December 25, 2012 - adds cast list
 * 3) July 27, 2013 - I notice the cast list for the first time and remove it, stating in the edit summary that "it is superfluous as all main cast members are listed in the plot, adds nothing as a pure list, and is supplied by the external links"
 * 4) August 18, 2013 - BattleshipMan restores it, stating "Brought back the cast section since it is unnecessary to remove them."
 * 5) As above - I revert back, stating "No, it isn't. The list is trivial and superfluous. All of the actually important characters have their actors mentioned in the plot section. This is not IMDb. See WP:FILMCAST"
 * 6) As above - BattleshipMan reverts back, stating "You don't get it. Do you? A lot of film articles have cast sections."

Discussion:

No I most certainly do get "it". Just because "most" film articles have something doesn't mean they all should. Most of them are not good articles. This is. As WP:FILMCAST clearly states: "Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information, so it is encouraged to name the most relevant actors and roles with the most appropriate rule of thumb for the given film". This is already perfectly conveyed by the plot section, as the policy recommends ("actors and their roles may be placed in the plot summary"). A stand-alone list, in this case, is superfluous, trivial and adds nothing. This is not IMDb. Gran2 19:40, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
 * They are already a lot of film articles that have cast sections as is, no matter how trivial and redundant some of the editors see it and it isn't like IMDB.com at all. It's not like every credit cast member are on those articles. BattleshipMan (talk) 19:49, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, but I don't really see how that is a valid reason. 'Other articles have it' is, as I have said, not automatically a valid reason. There are plenty of articles which don't have one (like Sense and Sensibility (film)). I have also supplied clear support from the WP:FILM guideline stating it is not necessary. As is, it is frankly confusing, as well as totally pointless, as you've listed the characters which only appear in the opening show-within-a-show scene, with no explanation of this. Unless you can show me clear policy or consensus support for it, I'm going to remove it. Gran2 19:59, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
 * You can't just like remove every cast sections in every film article, no matter how anybody would see how it is. They are already too many other film articles that have cast sections, despite how pointless some editors would see it. They are some cast sections that have brief characters descriptions on there as well. BattleshipMan (talk) 20:06, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Again, just because other articles have something doesn't mean they all should. I have supplied an example of another good article which doesn't. I have shown you, clearly, from the film guidelines, that it is not compulsory. When the article was passed as a good article, the cast list was not there. It was not there because it didn't need to be there. It still does not need to be there. It is not compulsory. Gran2 20:16, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
 * They are cast sections with actors that have reliable sources on an unknown number of film articles. That's another thing you should know about that. BattleshipMan (talk) 20:22, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
 * And again, I don't see what that has to do with this. I know. I know other articles have cast lists. That's fine. In a lot of articles, it works. They have nice cast lists with lots of real-world info. That's great. Other articles, like this one, don't do that, because they don't need to. As I have said, four times now, that other articles have something does not mean all articles must. For the fourth time, the policy says it is not compulsory. The policy says that including them in the plot is more than fine for cases like this and is much better than a simple, barren list. I'm sorry, but I'm really, really struggling to understand what your point is, other than that you like them. As said, they can be helpful, but not in this case. In this case it is pointless. And, again, as it is not in any way compulsory, it should not be included if it is pointless. Gran2 20:54, 18 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Comment Keep the cast section. It presents the information in a list that is easy to read and find. That way readers don't need to search around for links within the prose.-- JOJ Hutton  18:20, 17 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I see no need to restate my arguments from above. A bare cast list is in no way proscribed by any policy of style guideline and, indeed, is discouraged in GAs or higher. I'm sure many do, but that's not the point. If people want a cast list, they should go to IMDb. Gran2 18:36, 17 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Do you have a reason why this particular article should not have a cast list? And besides, given the previous active editors argument in favor of a cast list, you do not have consensus to remove the list.-- JOJ Hutton  18:44, 17 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Because it is superflous. A bare list containing a bunch of unimportant roles adds nothing to the article which having the names in the plot section cannot sufficiently do, in a more informative way, not to mention the casting section as well. I'm still not entirely sure what the "previous active editors argument" actually is, beyond 'other articles have them so this should as well'. That is not what I understand the film style guideline to say, so I see no consensus to keep it either. I think I've been pretty clear as to why I think it is not necessary. The only argument beyond 'I like it' is your comment that some people find it easier for quick reference. That's all well and good, but that is what IMDb is for. While you're here, do you think you could respond to my actual concern with your edit to List of The Simpsons cast members? I understand that you think you're changes are in line with policy. I don't care about that. My problem is that you have left the article inconsistent and it is your responsibility to fix that. Gran2 11:00, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Readers have grown accustomed to looking for cast sections when they trying to find a link for an actor. The cast sections are not simply indiscriminate lists, as they provide useful and easy to find information, As a reader myself, I shouldn't have to skim through long paragraphs in order to find the link that I am looking for. It's too labor intensive, it's inconvenient, and it makes the Wikipedia experience less enjoyable.
 * In response to your previous comment about the GA status of this article. GA status does not mean that the article is perfect and that the article no longer needs improvement. It simply means that the article is well written, but GA articles can and should continue to be improved upon. If adding a "cast section" improves the article, which several editors clearly feel that it does, then a cast section should be added.
 * As far as the "Simpsons" article is concerned, there is no such thing as a former recurring character/cast member. All information is presented in present tense. In fact, I currently don't see any problem with how the information is presented the article at all.-- JOJ Hutton  14:00, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
 * You changed the 'former cast members' section to 'other cast members' instead of redistributing them to other sections. Gran2 21:04, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
 * In my experience, the backlash against cast lists has been because it creates extraneous white space in Wikipedia articles. Editors have traditionally sought to address this by only mentioning the actors next to the roles in the plot summary or by expanding each listed item with details about each actor and their role. The former approach can work for films with small casts, and the latter approach can work with blockbuster films where there is plenty to write about each actor and role. Here, I think we should apply a rule of thumb to shorten the cast list a little more, perhaps using the Variety review for that. We could also apply multi-column formatting to the list so it fills the white space better. Everyone not mentioned in a rule-of-thumb list could be grouped in prose after the multi-column cast list. Erik (talk &#124; contrib) (ping me) 17:25, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

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