Talk:Jingoism/Archive 1

Good page
Good work all. I'd nominate it as a featured article, but I think they'd want it longer. Anyways I am impressed by the neutrality. Being rather a Jingoist myself, I find it fair and balanced ;) Sam [Spade] 02:36, 29 May 2004 (UTC)

Suggested Edits
I think the following paragraphs should be moved from the introduction and put under a new etymology heading: "Through much of the Victorian period, Russia was persistently viewed as a threat both to the European order and, sporadically, to British interests in India. The crisis ended at the Congress of Berlin when a group of powers, including British Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli, forced the newly created Bulgarian state to restore much of the land awarded at the peace treaty of San Stefano, including Macedonia, to Ottoman rule. This episode also reflects the conservative element of jingoism that forms a characterizing part of the movement.

The chorus of a song by MacDermott and G. W. Hunt commonly sung in pubs at the time gave birth to the term. The lyrics had the chorus:

We don't want to fight but by Jingo if we do, We've got the ships, we've got the men, we've got the money too, We've fought the Bear before, and while we're Britons true, The Russians shall not have Constantinople.

The expression "by Jingo" is apparently a minced oath that appeared rarely in print, but which has its origins as far back as the 17th century in a transparent euphemism for "by Jesus".[1] Origins have also been claimed for it in languages that would not have been very familiar in the British pub: in Basque, for example, "Jainko" is a form of the word for "God". A claim that the term referred to Jingu of Japan has been entirely dismissed.[citation needed] It is also an exclamation uttered by Arthur Birling in An Inspector Calls."

Any comments? Jirt 05:12, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree.--Johnbull 13:18, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Done. Jirt 02:18, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Minuteman Project
I've reverted an anon. user's edit who listed the Minutemen project under the "See Also" heading. I don't think that the organization quite fits in this article and it seems a little POV. I'm sure you will let me know if I was wrong. - Jirt 13:36, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Kipling was jingoistic
Rather shocked to see Rudyard Kipling listed as 'not jingoistic'. Firstly Jingoism is something that anyone could do from time to time so one 'misunderstood' poem isn't really relevant (I don't think it is sarcastic anyway which brings POV into question). Secondly Kipling was the imperial poet, he pulled strings to get his sickly son into the army for world war I (having brought him up to believe 'Dulce et decorum est...'), now he may not have been as crassly jingoistic as a politician but of a more jingoistic life and literature it is hard to conceive. Kipling's most famous poem If— was written in honour of a British criminal Leander Starr Jameson who perpetrated atrocities against the Dutch in South Africa before the Boer war, in context it was a jingoistic poem. I cut the reference.Aach 23:36, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Checking the history this looks like 69.235.162.206 changed the original section on Kipling to have the opposite meaning. Anyway I cut the reference on Kipling because I don't think it really fits in any of the formulations.Aach 23:50, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

WWI ADD
To first establish the little bit of creditability that I have I would first like to state that I am an AP World History student. I believe that jingoism played a major role during the outbreak of WWI and this should be added to the article. During the war, due to the use of war propaganda, civilians hated the enemy more than they supported their country, which I believe is a perfect example of “extreme patriotism in the form of aggressive foreign policy.” My source for this information comes from chapter 28 of World Civilizations The Global Experience Fourth Addition AP Edition DBQ Update. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.186.232.96 (talk) 00:01, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

The Great Game
This text appears to be disputed, since it's been added and deleted twice. Please note that it was proposed and discussed last year on this page,. While the first two sentences appears unrelated to the article, they explain elements of the song that follows: "We don't want to fight but by Jingo if we do We've got the ships, we've got the men, we've got the money too We've fought the Bear before, and while we're Britons true The Russians shall not have Constantinople."
 * Through much of the Victorian era, Russia was persistently viewed as a threat both to the Western/European order and, sporadically, to British interests in India. The crisis ended at the Congress of Berlin when a group of powers, including British Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli, forced the newly created Bulgarian state to restore much of the land awarded at the peace treaty of San Stefano, including the region of Macedonia, to Ottoman rule. Jingoism is today generally employed as a deprecatory term for the confident expressions of a Western, and particularly Anglo-American, culture that viewed its superiority as both self-evident and merited.

Perhaps the references in the lyrics can be explained in a simpler fashion? The third sentence is out of place, and would belong n the intro but it may be repetitive to existing material already there. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 00:21, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Word quite a bit older than previously thought?
According to Google Books, the origin of the word predates George Holyoake's usage of it by at least 30 years. ShortBus (talk) 05:36, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Google Books has got the date wrong. Parliamentary Debates volume 89 is from 1901. That is a quote from a speech by John Bryn Roberts dated 19 February 1901.--Britannicus (talk) 11:30, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Bullying?
I'm sorry, but I really fail to see why this is categorized as bullying aside from some political grandstanding. There is no mention of it, nor any citation of anything related to it in the article. I'm removing it for the time being and would like to open a channel for discussion here regarding it. -Deathsythe (talk) 14:40, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Differences between jingoism and patriotism
This section needs to either go or get a proper reference. It's only reference (is it just for the last sentence or does it apply to the whole paragraph?) is someone's paper for ENG 3050, presumably a school essay. (Lcohalan (talk) 06:16, 19 September 2013 (UTC))

^^^ And the source for that essay was probably this article. =( 72.16.17.161 (talk) 11:27, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Jingoism is patriotism abused to serve special interest (as in getting the country involved in war that serves no purpose but to enrich certain classes of people (industry, banks) ).--41.144.2.8 (talk) 15:42, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

== Job-Trade "Myth"

Rhyme
In the song it seems to me that it should end with Istanbul, not Constantinople because of the rhyme. It even may have been more likely that it was referred to as Staboul according to the Wikipedia page "names of Istanbul". That would give a proper rhyme to the verse. Jackhammer111 (talk) 17:02, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

Appeasement
How is conceding to rightful demands on diplomatic terms "appeasement"? 105.0.3.244 (talk) 16:11, 3 August 2022 (UTC)