Talk:Jiraiya (Naruto)/Archive 2

Let the change stay now
I want to believe that he is alive but I guess it isnt certain even though it has been hinted by the author himself.(Whiteboi1327 (talk) 12:27, 8 February 2008 (UTC))

He's dead. The interview was linked to in original Japanese This is just silly. Let it go. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.170.33.61 (talk) 03:19, 29 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I am sorry, but until we see the interview and it's not in a forum, this is simply hearsay, and does not warrant change per WP:V. Sasuke9031 (talk) 07:01, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

No it isn't. For starters, it was a stand-up interview at Jump Festa. For secondly, links were posted to the Japanese sources. I think some people need to let go now —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.170.33.61 (talk) 03:38, 30 January 2008 (UTC)


 * No, blogs were posted. Blogs aren't reliable. Either find the interview on Jump Festa's website, as I've told you countless times, or stop complaining altogether. ~SnapperTo 04:02, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Stop being an idiot if you're capable of it, Snapper. For the last time: It was a stand up interview. The staff transcribed it and posted it on the blogs, what more do you want? It's not on the Jump Festa web site. So hell with your elitism, I'll keep editing it because I'm right and encourage everyone at Narutofan to do likewise. Problem? Get stuffed —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.170.33.61 (talk) 05:24, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

And for the last time: how is anyone supposed to give a written transcript of a standup interview from the website? They don't post them there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.170.33.61 (talk) 15:24, 30 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Is that all you are capable of? Bitching and moaning because you can't get your way? Taking it out on others because you can't find a transcript that you once assured me existed is your own fault. Reducing yourself to insults is not going to put WP:V on your side, and no amount of NarutoFan cronies is going to help your case. ~SnapperTo 00:19, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Is all you're capable of is being a whiny brat with too much power? What part of 'there is no direct transcript on the site' are you incapable of understanding, you idiot? In other news, Snapper? The article's going to keep getting changed. You've been shown proof and you're a pathetic fanboy in denial. The article changes. Don't like it? Get over it. Let's take this up with some higher powers. Anyone with an ounce of gray matter would realize it is provable and verifiable. What part of 'it's not written on the Jump Festa website' are you incapable of understanding? It was a huge interview given in front of thousands of people. Do you show the same attitude towards interviews given at the US with no transcripts? There were hundreds with people like Joss Whedon or Brian Michael Bendis or Kevin Smith...I think you get the point. Basically, it events out to you being a complete thickheaded idiot with too much power. Hey, I've got a question...is Deidara dead? If so...why? I never saw a body. He's blown up clones before. Who says he's dead? Pain? Why should we believe him? He said Tobi was dead, too. If Jiriaya's status cannot be confirmed, I demand Deidara's status be declared unknown. As well as that of Minato Namikaze. Did we see him die? Do we know anyone who did? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.170.33.61 (talk) 03:47, 31 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Interviews in the US tend to be documented, either as a transcript or a general report on what was said by some local/national media outlet. It would be the same with this interview; Shonen Jump can't expect everyone to attend their annual festivals, so they need to make what happens there available to the general public somehow. Find that and you = win. Not find that and you = disgruntled not win. ~SnapperTo 04:21, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Really? So why are so many interviews with the three men described above at conventions and the like never transcripted? I could show you quite a few examples. Guess what, buddy: Shonen Jump knows a huge amount of fans attend their actual festivals. It was televised, shown in front of thousands of people and Jump Festa does it every year. Know what you got? You got some of the people who saw the interview transcribe it. Get some higher powers in here, you ridiculous fool. Let's see what they think. Unless you're a complete idiot, I'll say it again: I checked with three people AT JUMP FESTA who SPEAK FLUENT JAPANESE AS THEIR FIRST LANGUAGE: The interview is only for the Japanese fans. Get it? Maybe there's something you're not getting, but those are the Jump Festa blogs. Records of the stuff said on them. Why don't they count as proof? Lord, Snapper, you're pathetic. "WAAAAH! FIND ME PROOF THAT DOESN'T EXIST! WAAAH!" Even if it was recorded on the Jump Festa webpage you'd whine since you couldn't read it. Changing the article again! And maybe I'll changed Deidara's, too. Can you PROVE he's dead? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.170.43.89 (talk) 15:28, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

CAN WE GET SOME SEMI-PROTECTION OVER HERE!?!? Sasuke9031 (talk) 20:50, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I believe someone saw your request, because it's put up now. 216.68.184.22 (talk) 21:21, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Strange. LeafNinja confirms it, too, at Jiraiya's bio.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.170.43.89 (talk) 00:30, 1 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Leafninja's level of influence here is as about as high as my influence at my high school: Very very low. So it'd be wise to come up with a better reason.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 01:09, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

You mean like the Kishimoto interview I was kind enough to link to here in both translated and originally transcribed on the Jump Festa's blogs? Those reasons? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.170.43.89 (talk) 02:17, 1 February 2008 (UTC)


 * On that I say per Snap. I.E. Blogs aren't reliable. You'll need to find something more official. Now, gutting what you said correctly if there is no transcript on the official site (which would be very simple for them to do, just take the blog transcript and post it there) then it would be alright. Because it is on a BLOG and not the official site, it is open for speculation and therefor not reliable by Wikipedia standards. If it's up on the official website, then guess what: you win and you are free to add the (deceased) to his name. If it's not, wait for it to show up or stop complaining about it. (And for the record, I too believe Jiraiya is dead. However, I won't be adding it here or Narutopedia because as of now, it has yet to be confirmed.)--TheUltimate3 (talk) 16:57, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

They're from the staff of Jump Festa, transcribing what isn't on Jump Festa's site. I'll say it again, ASK ANYONE AT JUMP FESTA, THEY DON'T POST THE INTERVIEWS AND THEY HAVEN'T IN YEARS. They don't need to as the interview is common knowledge to the Japanese Fans-the intended audience- who view it in the thousands. How, HOW I ask you: when Kishimoto gave an interview in front of thousands, that many have attested to as seeing it in person isn't it reliable? How, when the staff transcribes it for them, and it's attested to by anyone at the interview isn't it official? Quite frankly, it's ridiculous. See, what you don't see to realize? There is proof. And it is valid. And why don't you address what I said about Deidara? Why should he be referred to as deceased? I saw no body. He's used clay clones before as decoys. Who says he's dead? Pain. Why is Pain an absolute source on Deidara, but not Jiraiya's death? I mean, it's not like Jiraiya himself said he was dying-wait, he did... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.170.39.172 (talk) 00:47, 3 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Hey. Please stop fighting.  This sort of behavior is generally uncivil and not tolerated here.  Wikipedia is not a forum.  So please stop complaining.  It was your incivility that got this page protected.  Sorry if I seem uncivil, I am trying not to be, but this is getting out of hand.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sasuke9031 (talk • contribs) 03:33, 3 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Using Deidara as evidence isn't helping your case, as nowhere on Akatsuki (Naruto) does it say he is dead. It says he blew up, a clear statement of facts. This article says that Pain said Jiraiya is dead, a clear statement of facts. Please find something better to do. ~SnapperTo 03:41, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

I say it was a clone. Prove it was actually him who blew up. And translation: You just can't accept you lost. Good day, Snapper. It's cute, though. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.170.42.5 (talk) 21:39, 3 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I am cute aren't I? The fact that I'm not being petty by complaining about not getting my way only increases my adorableness by 5 HP! Then there's the whole chasm of ways I'm not making flawed comparisons to other characters in a desperate attempt to prove my point. That's like another 50 Adorable HP! And don't even get me started on my amazing ability to properly indent during conversations. I should adopt myself; I'm just that cute. ~SnapperTo 01:24, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

It's even cuter how you try to claim superiority on Wikipedia and refuse to answer almost any points! It really, really is. What's next, Snapper...can your dad beat up mine? And I've proven my point, actually. And I don't need to resort to a poison well fallacy to do it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lightys (talk • contribs) 02:21, 4 February 2008 (UTC)


 * So you got yourself an account and are still trying to best Snap? You want to best Snap?  Here's three easy steps to do it.
 * 1: Keep the conversation civil. Personal attacks are generally not tolerated.
 * 2: Stop whining when you don't get your way. I made that mistake in my early days on Wikipedia, and what did it get me?  Accused of being a sockpuppet.  Therefore, it's generally wise not to do that.
 * 3: Now that you actually have an account, try doing something useful. I myself generally try to fight vandalism on all pages on my watchlist and try to reach consensus on merge discussions that appeases the person proposing the merge, but in a way that minimizes information loss.  The reason for this is the Itachi debate that took place so long ago.
 * That's pretty much it. If you want to best Snap eventually you'd do well to let this go.  I personally am beginning to think he's dead, but that does not matter.  Without proper documentation (which I know you have but cannot put in written form in a way that would satisfy WP:V) this is considered original research and will be reverted.  I wouldn't want to see a person get blocked for that.  So please, stop the fighting.  Jiraiya is dead, but we cannot call him that without proper sourcing. Sasuke9031 (talk) 02:48, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

fine, then. Thank you, Sasuke. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lightys (talk • contribs) 06:19, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

So this is what it comes to. No one wanted to confirm Naruto's lineage despite multiple pieces of evidence that clearly stated the obvious. But, because Kishimoto doesn't feel the need to completely spell things out, we have this huge brawl going on. Jiraiya. Is. Dead. If you can't accept that from the obvious information from the manga, then you are doing a disservice to the article. Yes, it is possible that Jiraiya may come back at one time, but it is also possible that Minato may come back some day. As with comics in the US, you're only dead until the author decides to bring you back. As it is, it was CLEARLY portrayed that Jiraiya is dead.

Proof: Chapter 382, Page 4: "The measure of a shinobi is not how he lives, but how he dies." "It's not what they do in life, but what they do IN DEATH that proves their worth." Pgs. 4-6: Describes a life full of failures, but he wanted to end with one last great adventure. Pg. 16: Comes back for a moment, surprising Pa and Pein both. Pein was certain that Jiraiya's heart had stopped. Pg. 17: Gives information regarding Pein to Pa via touch, who says that he got it all and takes off. Jiraiya coughs up blood, smiling, and thinks, "Naruto, you're the 'Destined Child', I know it...the rest is up to you!" (Why would he say this if he wasn't dying/dead?)

This is clearly a poignant story meant to eulogize Jiraiya as well as to tell of Jiraiya's hope in Naruto to carry on in the future (one of the key themes of the entire series, the young taking up the burdens of the old, the new improving upon the old), not to mention confirming (for everyone who hadn't already accepted it) Naruto's lineage. Also: Chapter 383, Page 13: Pein - "Jiraiya is dead." Page 14: Pein tells Zetsu to come out, who witnessed the entire fight. Zetsu's dark side alerts the other side to the Sasuke/Itachi fight commencing.

Chapter 382 - A bittersweet farewell to Jiraiya. Chapter 383 - Epilogue, with commencement of the new storyline/fight.

Can we please stop this incessant bickering and accept this? The statements of 'original research' are specious at best. We HAVE a character specifically saying "JIRAIYA IS DEAD." We have a witness on the very next page. That is not original research. That is fact.  Destrado Zero  23:39, 20 February 2008 (UTC)


 * And now because no one can dispute my claims, the confirmation is being kept off on a technicality. Great.  Schoolboy infighting.  Once the protection goes away, I will provide my accurate reference complete with website link directly to the Chapters.  Unless someone can contradict Pein's direct statment of "Jiraiya is dead", with Zetsu as witness, it had better stay up there once the reference is up and accurate.  The page WILL eventually be accurate.


 * I don't understand this ridiculous fighting of the truth. We all care about this character, or else we wouldn't be doing anything to this page.  I understand that it sucks that Jiraiya is dead, but HE'S DEAD.  Get used to it...until Kishimoto decides to bring him back (if ever).  Destrado Zero  09:35, 24 February 2008 (UTC)


 * By the way, I'd like to know something. Those multiple people citing the Kishimoto interview (Jump Festa 2008)...do you think they're lying?  ALL of them?  Everyone on every website that mentions this, they're ALL lying?  Or are you accusing Kishimoto of lying?  Just curious, because apparently the man himself confirmed it all...in addition to the blatant statement and witness, of course.  Destrado Zero  09:46, 24 February 2008 (UTC)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by DestradoTensai (talk • contribs)


 * Did you even read the last line in the Plot overview section, or are you just assuming everyone's choosing to ignore what Pain said? The age parameter is not the place to confirm or deny a character's in-universe status; the death or last appearance parameter is. Of course, neither can be used as we don't know the date that he fights Pain nor can we assume he will never appear in another chapter. ~SnapperTo 19:42, 24 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Completely ridiculous. We know when Pain fights Jiraiya in the context of the universe.  Are you really trying to say that the Jiraiya/Pain and Sasuke/Itachi fights take place in some nebulous future or past time?  You're grasping at straws.  Just like the Naruto lineage brawl, this will be proven beyond even your doubt eventually, and yet this page will stay inaccurate for as long as possible if this entire side of this ridiculous fight has anything to do with it.


 * Please don't get me wrong. If there were any hope of Jiraiya being alive IN THE CONTEXT OF THE STORY, I would be all for leaving it like it is...but there isn't.  Snapper, you know fully well that I'm not fighting for this because I like to fight.  I don't WANT to fight, but this whole line of argument is JUST like the Naruto/Minato debacle.  Destrado Zero  07:57, 25 February 2008 (UTC)


 * How is it inaccurate? I am completely at a loss as to why people put up so much of a fuss because "deceased" doesn't appear in the infobox when a more than adequate statement concerning his status appears in the text. The death parameter, just like the birth parameter, needs a date (ie. November 11). If you know which day in the Naruto universe they have their fight then by all means add that as the day he dies. Since you aren't going to be able to determine that, live with the article as it is now. ~SnapperTo 19:17, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Please point me to ANY deceased characters that have needed that requirement. Seriously. As I said to someone else, THIS kind of thing is exactly why very few people take Wikipedia seriously. Bickering, infighting, nitpicking...do you think this ever happened with any actual encyclopaedia research group? This has gone beyond ridiculous.  Destrado Zero  04:03, 26 February 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by DestradoTensai (talk • contribs)


 * "Ridiculous" is throwing a fit because you have to scroll to the end of an article to see if a character is dead or not. Voldemort and Darth Vader have nothing about their deadness in their infoboxes, whereas Sauron's does: a one "Date of death". Fancy that. If people don't take Wikipedia seriously, it's likely because they're super PO'd they can't get their way about some minor thing they care passionately about. ~SnapperTo 04:13, 26 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Well besides what is was said above, the only other way a character can marked “Deceased” or “Presumed Deceased” is if we don’t see them in the “present” storyline (i.e. seen only in flashbacks), or we see their grave/funeral/burial. We have not seen any of these for Jiraya yet (or for Deidara or any of the “former” Akatsuki) and thus no deceased markings. Let’s just everyone discuss this calmly as fighting will just result in the protection being extended.--Halls452 (talk) 05:27, 27 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Snapper, I have tried to be civil with you in the past, and you calling someone else out on spiteful editing is ironic. I'm not saying that your technicalities are incorrect, I am saying that focusing solely on technicalites rather than using these rules as they guidelines for times when something could be disputed isn't good for the website.  Your opinion may differ, but that's my opinion.  The fact that you're taking time to call me out like this doesn't make sense to me.  Destrado Zero  06:34, 28 February 2008 (UTC)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by DestradoTensai (talk • contribs)


 * I have grown tired of having this same discussion repeatedly over the past few months, and get irritated when editors capable of doing constructive things, such as yourself, feel the need to continue it. When there have been seven discussions about the same topic, every argument is likely to have been considered and addressed in some fashion. Was I ruder than necessary? Very much so, for which I apologize. My response, however, was more geared to people in general who continue to be dissatisfied with the article as it is for very unsatisfactory reasons. Again, I apologize for singling you out, but I would greatly like for all seven of these conversations to die peinful deaths. ~SnapperTo 23:59, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Death and Part in the story
Was terrible, inconsistent and was not written encyclopedia like, so I deleted it. And we shouldn't call him dead yet, so I deleted it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Idon'twannahaveausername (talk • contribs) 02:24, 22 December 2007 (UTC)


 * There is no evidence to prove Jiraiya's death. It's unfortunate of course. Unless Kishimoto shows a funeral in the next Naruto's chapter. We cant call him death yet. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ryan darknight (talk • contribs) 11:25, 22 December 2007 (UTC)


 * There was no funeral for Obito's death, yet anyone who has remained neutral in that whole conspiracy theory knows he's dead. Its sad, but its true, Jiraiya said it, and Pein confirmed it, Jiraiya is dead.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 12:54, 22 December 2007 (UTC)


 * About Obito. His name shown in the tomb stone, that's an evidence he is death. But, I changed my mind, maybe Jiraiya's is dead. I wonder how the plot move on from then? Ryan_Aldren 06:25, 24 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Still hasn't beem shown actualy dead ... 82.117.201.10 (talk) 23:06, 25 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Well in manga and comics its hard to imagine anyone dead yet, and in Obito's case he could be alive. Wait two more issues, and if he's dead than list him dead. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Idon'twannahaveausername (talk • contribs) 23:50, 25 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Unfortunately it appears a lot of people do not want to wait for confirmation on Jiraiya’s death. There’s still the chance (98.9% unlikely) that Jiraiya comes out of his alive. We should wait for the next few chapters.216.196.213.141 (talk) 20:48, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Whats this whole thing about Jiraiya putting down his pen after titiling a book. Was this whole thing just a book he was writing or is this vandalism to the page? I really need to know. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.131.6.124 (talk) 20:35, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
 * It is the way the manga told us that Jiraya has finally finished all that he had to do in life (ie he is dead). Please remember that this is all from the Manga.  Outside sources are unnecessary.  It is clearly stated in chapter 383 by Pain that Jiraya is dead.  No further information is needed.  If it later comes to light that he was revived by some some means or other, the deceased label will be removed, but until then we must convey what the manga does to us.Hash2o (talk) 12:49, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
 * True, however it looked as if Jiraiya first thought he was putting his pen down yet and then thought he can't yet since the book's unfinshed and it needs a title. He's last seen coming up with the title, "The Story of Naruto Uzumaki." Also, we can't confirm his death for at least a few more chapters and we can't go by Pain's statement since he has not seen Jiraiya's dead body (nor have we). 216.196.213.141 (talk) 04:21, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Guys, Jiraiya is deceased. Kishimoto confirmed it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by SuperSaiyaMan (talk • contribs) 21:03, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Archived
Page is archived. Get over the strength complaining. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 21:41, 17 October 2007 (UTC) there is some vandalism. it is that it says that konan is on his team and that he is dead. someone do something! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.35.20.80 (talk) 00:20, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Sennin as "hermit" or "sage"
Within the article, we twice refer to 仙人 (sennin). Once we say that Jiraiya is known as the "Toad Sage", and later that he has a power called "Hermit Mode". I understand that "Hermit Mode" seems to be the phrase bandied about by scanlaters and the popular discussion forums, but I'm uncomfortable seeing 仙人 translated in two different ways ("sage" or "hermit") in the same article, when the context is fairly similar. Should we change "Hermit Mode" to "Sage Mode"? I'll do so for now, but by all means undo the change if you disagree. Please post here explaining why if you do so. Elyssaen 12:34, 24 October 2007 (UTC)


 * "Sage" isn't a "translation" as much as a "localization". A sennin is a mountain man; a hermit. There is a sort of supernatural sense to the word, but it does not suggest wisdom nearly as much as the word "sage" does.
 * Anyway, when multiple terms are available, this is Wikipedia's order of preference:
 * Use the official trade name if available in English/Latin alphabet;
 * Use the form found in a dictionary entry from a generally-accepted English dictionary;


 * Use the form publicly used on behalf of the [subject] in the English-speaking world;
 * Use the form publicly used on behalf of the [subject] in any other popular Latin-alphabet-using language; or
 * If none of the above is available, use the macronned form.
 * This is discussed under WP:MOS-JA but the order can apply to other terms as well, not just names. –Gunslinger47 23:25, 24 October 2007 (UTC)


 * So in short (as I am WAY to burned out from today) we use Sage instead of Hermit here?--TheUltimate3 00:10, 27 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I think so, until contradicted by future Viz manga or dubs. –Gunslinger47 07:11, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Chronological correctness?
I'd like to know about the chronological correctness in the following sentences:

"As a child, Jiraiya and his former teammates, Orochimaru and Tsunade, were students of the Third Hokage. After leaving the Third's tutelage, he traveled the world and discovered the residence of the toads, a species he proved to have a natural affinity for."

Reason: The toad sage predicted Jiraya to become "a pervert without equal" and "a shinobi of incredible talent", when Jiraiya hears this he gets a little sceptical/dissapointed at the "pervert" part, however, while he was in the 3rd's tutelage he had already picked up a perverted habit (he gets a flashback about it (A. in the manga: somewhere around the 3rd's funeral. (B. in the anime: early in Naruto's rasengan training)... Furthermore, the red lines under Jiraiya's eyes appear to grow longer the older he gets, and I believe they appear longer when he's training with Sarutobi. Opinions? Thoughts? 81.228.148.16 21:26, 31 October 2007 (UTC)


 * It's just an assumption that he met the toads after leaving and not while he was still a pupil under Sandaime. So I guess the page needs a fix. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.107.131.129 (talk) 23:43, 31 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Jiraiya's "tears of blood" are painted on, so they are as long as Jiraiya wants them to be. As for the prediction, it was his becoming a pervert "without equal". –Gunslinger47 01:53, 1 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Jiraiya had just become a Genin at the time of the flashback with the Third (he was 6 years of age according to the data books). He is considerably older than that at the time that he mingles with the toads. ~SnapperTo 03:16, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Error in the background section
It says: "Once becoming a Jonin capable of leading a squad, Jiraiya became the sensei of Arashi Uzumaki and two other unknown Genin." And when you click on Arashi Uzumaki it redirects you to the Fourth Hokage profile (or whatever you want to call it..) in list of konoha ninja, and that says his name is Minato Namikaze and that he is Fourth Hokage / Yondaime Hokage.. '~NekoRobin


 * You should log into your account before signing. Your identity cannot be verified as it is.
 * As for the Arashi nonsense, this was just the most recent edit. I've reverted it. –Gunslinger47 19:15, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

"During his battle against Pein Jiraiya loses his left arm but still combats the six bodies of Pein by eliminating three bodies with the use of his toad genjutsu; only to find that Pein can revive them." Shouldn't that be edited to read that he's losst an arm after defeating three of them? As it is, it sounds like he lost his arm, then managed to beat them, but the Raw shows him beating the three then losing said arm... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.131.168.119 (talk) 18:40, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
 * The previous poster is correct: The three bodies were defeated prior to Jiraiya losing his arm. The chain of events went: Taking out the two, then trapping and killing the third. Being duped by a fourth body, not only losing his arm but being kicked into the outdoors. The next frame we saw in that particular manga was the last page: Pein's six bodies, in a diorama outlining the 6 forms of Pain. Off hand, I think the manga is 379, but it's within the last month or so for sure. My question is: Didja fix it, guy above me? 74.12.7.106 (talk) 17:17, 10 December 2007 (UTC) Joe

Jiraiya's Abilities
I think it's about time we remove the line "a full demonstration of Jiraiya's abilities have not yet been seen", because he's been fighting at maximum capacity for the last few chapters with Pein, so I'd say we have seen a full demonstration. Granted, he might have a few other jutsu we haven't yet seen, but I doubt they're any stronger or more effective then what he's used thusfar. 214.13.209.200 (talk) 13:08, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Jiraiya isn't dead yet
Guys, jiraiya isnt dead yet. Well it seems like it, but we're not sure, it could be a clone or illusion, etc —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.201.135.3 (talk) 01:32, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for fixing this - I thought it off when I came here directly after reading the manga. Clearly, the manga had made no distinction as to whether he was dead or not. Frankly, one more manga would be needed. Again, good job on the fixing as that could have spawned a myriad of destruction on this talk page. 74.12.7.106 (talk) 17:14, 10 December 2007 (UTC) Joe

In fact he becomes one of the body's of Pain, replacing the body Jiraiya had sent to Tsunade. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.170.247.146 (talk) 05:50, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Where are people getting this from? The chapter hasnt even come out yet... Wait for the chapter, then add that if it turns out to be true... -- Ghost Stalker (Got a present for ya! | Mission Log) 18:05, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Somebody was flashing around a photoshopped picture of Jiraiya with Pain's eyes and piercings saying "ok, let's go get Nartuo" in the days before the last chapter's release. It didn't show up in the chapter, so it was determined to be fake. Hewinsj (talk) 22:52, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Were did u get that idea???--naruto beierNaruto Beier (talk) 16:26, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Jiraiya is dead. Chapter 382 clearly says so in the last page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.244.213.251 (talk) 22:46, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but he is still speaking at the end of the chapter. Technically speaking, he is not 'dead' yet but 'dying'. Therefore, I'm removing the deceased label. 12.210.215.90 (talk) 01:15, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
 * He IS dead/ Confirmed by Pain, confirmed by Kishimoto. Hence, it has to be added that he is deceased. —Preceding unsigned comment added by SuperSaiyaMan (talk • contribs) 22:11, 18 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Give me a link to where Kishimoto confirms Jiraiya is dead. The only confirmation I've seen is a questionable and short "interview" translation (that has yet to be verified) plastered all over the internetz. Prove to me the interview is genuine or stop adding unverified things to the article. ~SnapperTo 22:29, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
 * How is it questionable, and why does it matter if it is short? We have two sources of confirmation, from Pein himself, and from Kishi. How it is unverified when it is confirmed? —Preceding unsigned comment added by SuperSaiyaMan (talk • contribs) 23:17, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

It's unverified because Snapper is quite in denial. There's nothing questionable after the interview, know why? Because at Jump-Festa 2008, he was asked questions on stage. Got it? Not a formal written interview. On stage in a Q'n'A spot. Got it? It was transcribed, translated and later posted. Seems the burden's on you, Snapper. you need to prove it's fake. Know why? You'd been shown proof. Want to discount it? Give us evidence or shut up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.170.39.65 (talk) 19:58, 19 January 2008 (UTC)


 * No personal attacks please. Snap has every right to his opinion. Sasuke9031 (talk) 20:02, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
 * O RLY? ~SnapperTo 20:04, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Tell us then, Snap, why isn't Pain a verifiable in-universe source. And again, the events of Jiraiya's last thoughts occur *after* Pain tells Zetsu that the great Toad Sage is dead. It wasn't a concurrent thing, it didn't happen before, it was AFTER Jiraiya had sunk to the depths. Why isn't that proof enough? Also tell me why, when Tsunade bet that Jiraiya wouldn't come back and won that bet isn't a good source either. We have two sources, and the latter, including the first, is *highly* reliable, since, if Tsunade wins, something bad always happens. So tell us. Why? SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 20:26, 19 January 2008 (UTC)SuperSaiyaManSuperSaiyaMan (talk) 20:26, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Since when did Tsunade win her bet? Nobody, not even Tsunade, has said she won this bet. ~SnapperTo 20:31, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
 * It was in chapter 381, when Tsunade was talking with Shizune. She thought if Jiraiya did come back, he wouldn't have to fight anymore, but she already knew he was dead. And, I went over chapter 383 again. By the time Jiraiya's last thoughts finish (the tale of Uzumaki Naruto, being the last one), there were two pages before Pain said that Jiraiya was dead. Logic dictates that he is dead. We had confirmation. SuperSaiyaMan —Preceding unsigned comment added by SuperSaiyaMan (talk • contribs) 20:38, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Tsunade talked to Shizune in 380, not 381. Even then, she does not say she won her bet, only that she was betting he would die. Besides, Jiraiya was clearly alive at that point, so the conversation is irrelevant. Again, the article states what Pain said; the world will not come to an end if there is no "deceased" tag in the short term. ~SnapperTo 20:44, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Is that your only defense, Snapper? Your turn: we want proof. Verifiability: we have it. We have the translated interview of Jump-Fest 2008. Any proof it's fake? Any evidence? Jiraiya is dead, you need to get over it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.170.39.65 (talk) 00:11, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, the burden of proof is one the people who want to add stuff to the article. Do you have a reliable source for the interview? Has it been quoted in an issue of Shonen Jump? If this was a major interview, I would have expected it to be quoted somewhere verifiable... -- Ghost Stalker (Got a present for ya! | Mission Log) 00:39, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

I have the site to where it's posted. Can you read Japanese? I'll be glad to translate for you. Know what it was, Ghost? An on-stage interview at Jump Festa 2008. Not a 'sit down, give an interview to a magazine.' It was transcribed and posted at Jump Festa's webpage. How, I ask you, can they post this interview in anything American regarding things as Itachi v. Sasuke or Jiraiya's death when the American manga is so far away? Again: we have people who were at Jump Festa posting it, we have the Jump Festa Japanese site saying it....seriously, how is this anything but verifiable? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.170.38.12 (talk) 20:33, 20 January 2008 (UTC)


 * A link to the interview on Jump Festa's site would immediately end this discussion in your favor. A link to 2chan was and has been the only Japanese site I've found thus far. ~SnapperTo 20:48, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

http://www.jumpfesta.com/index2.html You can easily find it from here if you can read Japanese. For the proper English translation, from someone who attended Jump Festa: http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=309209 I'm not even sure how one can say the interview is fake here. Even just by logic: Jiraiya was too injured to even move, impaled, missing an arm, had his throat crushed, then was slammed by that rocket punch and sinks into the depths of the lake and Pain declares him dead. He couldn't so much as move...even without Kishi's confirmation, he's a corpse. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.170.38.12 (talk) 21:02, 20 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I am already aware of the Jump Festa website. What I am not aware of is where, if anywhere, Jump Festa provides the interview. Since I do not know Japanese, a URL to the interview on the website would be appreciated. Additionally, Jiraiya doesn't get hit with the rocket punch since he wasn't the target; Pa was. ~SnapperTo 21:37, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Likewise, I don't speak Japanese, but the original poster-who was at the Jump Festa and posted the interview originally- was kind enough to post the interview in Japanese as well on the Narutofan page. Honestly, though...we have to consider a few things: Firstly, that any member would falsify this for whatever, reason, risking another Jump Festa attendee calling them out, and taking the trouble to link to the Jump Festa, saying Kishimoto was questioned was the voice actors, stating plans for next year...said poster having posted lots of true information before and has been involved in some Naruto media, and if it was fake, would run the risk of anyone on the interweb who speaks Japanese, reads Japanese, or attended the JF to call them out. Is there any logical basis for falsifying it? I see none. And regardless of who was the target, Jiraiya took a hit there, too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.170.38.12 (talk) 00:58, 21 January 2008 (UTC)


 * An irrefutable reference is needed for the claim that Jiraiya is dead. If there is none, we get a surge of people saying, "Nu-uh he's alive," as opposed to the current, "Duh he's dead." People who were at Jump Festa, regardless of their standing, do not make for good references; we can't expect readers to track people down and read their minds in order to "relive" the interview and verify it. Readers need documentation of the interview provided by a reliable body (Shueisha, Weekly Shonen Jump, etc.) or comments on the interview reported by a reliable body (CNN Japan, The Tokyo Times, whatever). Translations on forums aren't good enough; if we were to rely solely on what people on forums report as fact, we'd still have something on the three-tails being a shark or the Fourth Hokage's name being Arashi. Again, nothing is lost if there is no deceased tag next to Jiraiya's age, as the article notes what Pain said. Besides, the Age parameter is not intended to be used as an indicator of a character's death; Death or Last [appearance] is. Until you can get someone who knows Japanese to track down the interview on jumpfesta.com or a more clearcut statement concerning Jiraiya's death is made in the manga, the article will remain as it is. ~SnapperTo 05:09, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

This is just unreasonable. At Jump Festa every year, the mangaka and artists stand up and take questions. Why would there be a publicized form of it? Do we need a video of it, with Kishimoto coming on first, saying "I'm Kishimoto and I approve this message?" There WAS a statement made in the manga and every sign points to his death. This is you not wanting to accept it. Pure administrative ego at its worst. You were given evidence. You either disprove it, or you yield to it. What's your excuse here, Snapper? How is it in any way ambiguous? Anyone with an ounce of logic who isn't a blind fanboy seems to get the message through their skulls even before they see the interview transcript. Apparently that doesn't include you. With people like you in charge, no wonder Wiki isn't taken seriously —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.170.39.190 (talk) 18:10, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Matter of fact, look at it this way: If Jiraiya's underwater...deep underwater. Is he breathing? now, if someone's not breathing, their heart stops beating very quickly after. now, assuming that after being impaled, he had enough of a heart left for it to beat, would his heart now be beating? Being unable to move or even SPEAK with his throat gashed out, and saying he was dying in the last chapter, is Jiraiya alive or dead now? Perhaps the ones clamoring for him not to be deceased would like to give a logical explanation? Perhaps they'd like us to edit the Star Wars Grand Moff Tarkin article to show we never see Tarkin die when the Death Star explodes? Makes just as much sense —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.170.39.190 (talk) 18:17, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

And found Japanese confirmation, provided by someone AT Jumpfest: http://benten1110.blog70.fc2.com/blog-entry-354.html http://blog.so-net.ne.jp/itachisann/2007-12-24 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.170.38.13 (talk) 22:47, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

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BetacommandBot (talk) 20:49, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

dont say he is dead...just yet
it has not been officially confirmed, Wikipedia is all about verifiability, and since it has not been confirmed that he is dead we cant add it.-- Blue-Eyes  Gold Dragon   05:12, 22 December 2007 (UTC) $$$$

it has been verified--Velanthis (talk) 06:19, 22 December 2007 (UTC)


 * how and when?-- Blue-Eyes  Gold Dragon   15:02, 22 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Pages 6-8 in chapter 383, confirmed by Pein on page 13 also in Chapter 383. With that, he's dead until proven otherwise.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 15:08, 22 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I could say the same thing, but i dont want an edit war.-- Blue-Eyes  Gold Dragon   15:13, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

HE SANK into the water. If he tries to breathe, GHACKKKKK. If he doesn't, GHACKKKKK. So there. He's dead. Hananoshi 02:03, 23 December 2007 (UTC)Hananoshi


 * Interesting theories 216.99.53.158 (talk) 03:38, 23 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Very interesting. Although It looks like he is dead, Sasuke looked like he was dead in the land of waves arc, yes? Sasuke9031 (talk) 07:13, 23 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Then at the time, he would have been considered dead if people started saying "Yo, Sauske's dead." Pein said Jiraiya was dead, and even Jiraiya said "This is a good ending", "Time to put down my pen" "yada yada yada". So as of now, he's dead until proven otherwise.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 12:26, 23 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Haku PURPOSELY didn't kill Sasuke. He has a good heart, he made it look that way. But Pein is PURE EVIL, so he wouldn't spare jiraiya. Hananoshi 14:00, 23 December 2007 (UTC)Hananoshi


 * Pain may be pure evil, but so are the Sith, and they sometimes spare lives. The point hovever, is not about Star Wars, it's whether or not Jiraiya is really dead.  I certainly believe that he is not because that would make about as much sense as every other injury in Naruto. Sasuke9031 (talk) 06:10, 24 December 2007 (UTC)


 * yes remember in Haku battle, "is this the first time you have seen a friend die in battle?" OMFG sasuke is dead, quick change the article! -_- --  Blue-Eyes  Gold Dragon   07:37, 24 December 2007 (UTC)


 * That's what I am saying. Don't jump to conclusions.  Until Kishimoto explicitly says that Jiraiya is dead... well, don't say it.  We don't want this article to start becoming a "Dumbledore is dead/not dead" edit war, so let's wait for his death to become verifiable. Sasuke9031 (talk) 18:01, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

We're not jumping to conclusions, as of the most recent chapter, Jiraiya is dead. Pein said so himself on page 13. Until his body shows up out of the water later on, he is dead until proven otherwise. The whole Dumbledore is dead/not dead edit war was done primarily due to a bunch of people who couldn't handle or accept the fact that the old man was dead, something that has to be avoided here. We go by the facts, not assumptions.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 20:36, 24 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I find it to be quite the contrary. Pain assumes Jiraiya is dead prior to Jiraiya falling into the water. Of course, once Jiraiya falls into the water it becomes apparent he still has some life left in him, as dead people can't think. Until we see his lifeless corpse, or Jiraiya does not make a reappearance in the next few chapters, there are conflicting statements about his status. ~SnapperTo 21:07, 24 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I find those final thoughts to be the last thing on his mind before the end, a typical thing in TV/comic/anime/manga/movies. I still hold strong to my "Jiraiya is dead". --TheUltimate3 (talk) 21:49, 24 December 2007 (UTC)


 * If I go by your theory, then Sasuke is just a waking talking corpse on the verge of becoming a Hollow. I don't believe that at all, so no =, jiraiya's not dead until proven otherwise. Sasuke9031 (talk) 22:07, 24 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Did you really need to post the same points here and on my Talk Page? Well anywho, Snap out ranks me and at the moment I will remain silent here. However as I've said over and over again, I go by what I see, and look at it from a consumer and a an "artistic" standpoint. Jiraiya going on about this being a fitting end leads to Common Sense telling me he's dead. Pein saying Jiraiya was dead, gives me (currently) proof that Jiraiya is dead. I say until proven otherwise, like his body washing up on a beach somewhere and him complaining that this time he could have actually died, he is dead.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 22:41, 24 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm sure I'm being simply being stubborn about this, but if Jiraiya's thoughts in 383 are indicative of lingering life, then that doesn't fit with Kishimoto's habit of killing off protagonists (and even most antagonists) at the end of a chapter. If Pa resurfaces without Jiraiya or someone close to Jiraiya (Tsunade perhaps) says he's dead, I'll let it go. ~SnapperTo 03:09, 25 December 2007 (UTC)


 * What's the saying, "bottomless pits are a notoriously unreliable means of death"? The same goes for seemingly bottomless swamps... especially when the one sinking is a toad sage.  Celestial allies are a great form of Deus Ex Machina.  That said, if the toads say he's dead, I'd say it's verified.  They ought to know better than anyone. –Gunslinger47 19:59, 25 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Only pain says he is dead. Jiraiya is thinking he is about to die, and he might still live. Remember when haku almost killed Sauske. And sauske had a kind of gay moment with Naruto saying how he needed to stay alive so he could kill Itachi? And Naruto when fox and kicked haku's ass. Sauske himself thought that he was about to be dead, but he came out alive. I am just thinking that Kishimoto wouldn't kill Jiraiya without us know much about him. It is just a thought.--Naruto Beier (talk) 03:11, 28 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Three things. 1) Sasuke was peppered with needles that may or may not have hit vital areas. It was more or less a given that he was at least going to pass out. Death? Maybe, maybe not.
 * 2) Jiraiya is in no way similar to Sasuke in this respect and here's why: His throat has collapsed, he is impaled in five different places with swords, two or three of which I'm pretty sure are through the lungs. And Sasuke wasn't sinking to the bottom of Davy Jones' Locker.
 * 3) Kishimoto did tell us all about him. Remember all the flashbacks? Lastbetrayal (talk) 20:59, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Man give me a break. Im only 12. Were i get this is from saiyanisland. I still think that Jiraiya is still alive. Besides,where the hell did Jiraiya meet the toads, along with the Ma and Pa. And with the sasuke thing, he was saying "I wanted to stay ALIVE, long enough to kill, my brother. Meaning that he was thinking he was about to die.--Naruto Beier (talk) 05:09, 3 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I have no doubt that Sasuke thought he was going to die, no need to tell me his "last" words. As for where Jiraiya met the toads, I will respond with some questions of my own: How did Orochimarus parents die? Where the hells the rest of the 7 swordsmen of the Mist? How did the First and Second hokages die? What the frig does Kakashi's face look like?! Not every question is going to be answered. Besides, they showed the toads location as some mountain in chapter 374 or something. When Jiraiya had the flashback about the prophecy.Lastbetrayal (talk) 00:43, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Kakuzu killed the First and Second hokage. He said that the first konaha ninja he fought with was the first hokage. Then it showed him ripping out the heart of the first hokage. I'm not sure about the second hokage. Well that answered 1 of your questions at least. And I still think that Jiraya is still alive. And i hope you wont be a total jackass about it!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Naruto Beier (talk • contribs) 05:45, 4 January 2008 (UTC)


 * No. Kakuzu said he fought the First hokage. Never said anything about killing him. Nor do I remember seeing Kakuzu rip out the First hokages heart. As it currently is the cause of death for the First and Second are unknown. And by all means believe Jiraiya is alive, hell, I hope you're right. Jiraiya is awesome. I'm saying I think he's dead because no one in Naruto has come back from the kind of damage Jiraiya took.Lastbetrayal (talk) 20:03, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

That is very true. And i hope so too.--Naruto Beier (talk) 02:57, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

jiraiya is dead get used to it
i know everyone is a huge fan on the toad mountain sage, but guess what Pain killed him...no doubt about it...it would be very gay if the writer guy showed all of that drama just to have him still living —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.35.58.130 (talk) 01:16, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Being a fan has nothing to do with Wikipedia policy. See Verifiability.  Right now there's still a good chance that Kishimoto will bring Jiraiya back.  Lame or not. :( –Gunslinger47 02:01, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * There's that new interview with Kishimoto floating around the internet from Jump Festa 2008, where Kishimoto says that Jiraiya is all but dead... Of course, I dont have a reliable source for that and all I'm going off of is hearsay, but if that can be verified, I think we can finally put this matter to rest. -- Ghost Stalker (Got a present for ya! | Mission Log) 22:01, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Pain stated that he was dead. Unless Naruto does a DBZ and brings him back to life with a couple of balls it is safe to say he is dead.Hash2o (talk) 12:32, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
 * First, there's Chiyo's brother, so it would be safe to say that he could revive Jiraiya, but for now, let's not go with speculation. He's dead, Jim. Sasuke9031 (talk) 18:33, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, Kishimoto always uses the "apparently dead" plot device...Zabusa getting killed by needles impaled in the neck, Choji taking a suicide pill, Neiji getting supposedly shot to death, Gaira dying and getting revived, Deidara self-destructing and then saying it was only his bunshin 5 min later...do people ever die in Naruto? But jokes aside, Jiraiya is stated to be dead, so his status should just be stated as deceased. Won't surprise me if he IS actually still alive, but for the time being there is absolutely no evidence of such.121.210.92.56 (talk) 06:51, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Makes about as much sense as any other injury in this story (thanks for that quote Vegeta3986). Sasuke9031 (talk) 07:04, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
 * he was not stated to be dead <<late reply -- Blue-Eyes  Gold Dragon   01:40, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
 * if that always happens (the character revival stuff) then why is deidara marked as deceased and not jiraiya? it was confirmed just as much that jiraiya is dead as it was that deidara was.TobiSamoht (talk) 02:56, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I thought Deidara's (dead) body was given to Pain and he used it to fight Jiraiya. Hewinsj (talk) 05:06, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
 * TobiSamoht: Deidara isn't marked as "Deceased." I think someone may have tried to do so, but it was reverted back. I believe the only characters marked Deceased (whether they are or not) are the ones that the tombstones/grave markers are shown.--Halls452 (talk) 03:40, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Has it actually been confirmed yet???
Yeah, we know he’s dead, yet has Jiraiya’s death actually been officially confirmed by Kishimoto? People are saying that the proof is the fact Pain (aka Pein) said he died and some are saying Pain/Pein states he sees Jiraiya’s body at the bottom. However, having Pain/Pein say he’s dead is not really enough proof. If we put he’s dead and he either pops up alive or comes back to life it really would not look good.

So should we put his death’s has not been confirmed? Should we put “presumed deceased” until it’s confirmed? Should the article just be locked for the next few days/weeks?216.196.213.141 (talk) 21:03, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

well we cant beleve pein, and other then pain saying something it hasnt been confermed, and then next manga is next week. i think this page should be locked-- Blue-Eyes  Gold Dragon   21:50, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Ahh, this page looks very familiar... where did I see this before? Oh right. The same exact thing happenned on Orochimaru's page when he "died". 72.234.46.115 (talk) 08:11, 15 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Orochimaru is dead-- Blue-Eyes  Gold Dragon   14:26, 15 January 2008 (UTC)


 * well sort of-- Blue-Eyes  Gold Dragon   14:28, 15 January 2008 (UTC)


 * The death was confirmed in Chapters 382 and 383. Statement of fact (Pein) and witness (Zetsu).  The fact that people are still trying to fight this is sick and sad.  Destrado Zero  09:32, 24 February 2008 (UTC)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by DestradoTensai (talk • contribs)

Please Stop Fighting everyone!!!
Judging by this article's history, the "Jiraya-is-dead/Not-he-is-not" argument is now out of control. If this continues, the article may be declared semi-protected (locked) by the Registered users of this site, or may be deleted all together by the Wikipedia server. 216.68.184.22 (talk) 18:25, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
 * no,we are going by the rules, his death has not been confirmed so it cant be added. and why dont you make an account?-- Blue-Eyes  Gold Dragon   19:45, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
 * To be fair, his living hasn't been confirmed either. All we have is a very symbolic "death" scene. Hewinsj (talk) 19:51, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry that you think that this was directed at just you Blue-Eyes. In truth there are three sides to the arguement so I'm directing it at them as well. (And, yes, that includes the "angry 132.--" contributor well.) I'm will be registering for an account soon so please calm down. As for you "132.," I ask that you please also calm down and just wait about 2-10 chapters down the road when the manga comes back to this part of the plot before putting he's dead. To continue with the route your going will just result in the Jiraya article getting locked.216.68.184.22 (talk) 20:28, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Never mind. The article is (finally) now semi-protected. (Thank you Jmlk17.) 216.68.184.22 (talk) 21:21, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
 * at last, and yes its true that him being alive hasn't been confirmed but he hasnt been confirmed dead so its just best to leave it as "which pain notes to be his death" type thing--  Blue-Eyes  Gold Dragon   21:29, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I requested semi-protection, which was approved, so this dispute can be settled. Making sure everyone knows, cheers. Earth bending master  17:55, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, at least it slowed them down, but unfortunately some of them decided to get accounts and are ignoring all reason and logic on how wiki confirms the facts. I hope the manga (or the publishers) confirms this soon.--Halls452 (talk) 00:13, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Fortunately for us, Halls, I already put a stop to one of them using the "So you want to beat Snap" card. I don't think that he was the only one though, but we will see. Sasuke9031 (talk) 01:07, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Time difference between part 1 and part 2 confirmed and verified.
Since I am not going to get myself blocked for edit warring, I just thought I'd point out that Tintor2's recent edits make no sense and clash with the time difference between part 1 and part 2. He claims that the age difference is unsourced, but in fact, going by the already verified timeskip, that makes no sense. Please use common sense people. Sasuke9031 (talk) 04:23, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Why do you think the users deleted the part 2 ages of Naruto, Sakura, Sasuke and Kakashi? Who knows what month is in part 2? Tintor2 (talk) 09:08, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

I know that. However, instead of putting the characters in an ageless Matrix-like timeloop, wouldn't it make more sense to try to fide some sources? Sasuke9031 (talk) 21:18, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

We are not saying they are ageless. That source may come with the next databook.Tintor2 (talk) 21:58, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

I know that, but the way that you put this, it seems like they are. Isn't there some sort of "source pending" function that would basically say what Calculus says about getting to destinations? Sasuke9031 (talk) 00:39, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

I have never heard of that. Ask that to another user like User:Sephiroth BCR or User talk:Snapper2.Tintor2 (talk) 21:43, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Maybe it would be better if we just show the ages if all the Naruto characters were at the beginning of part I.


 * Example: Age:      12 (at the beginning)

This seems to be what everyone else has decided to do with manga/anime/cartoon/comic characters for right now anyway. What do you think?--Halls452 (talk) 01:48, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

The problem is that we are trying to get this resolved in a way that everyone will be happy and we will not hae a problem once the semi-protection expires. Sasuke9031 (talk) 02:07, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Well if the argument for getting rid of the ages of the characters in "Part II" is that we can't confirm the month it started, then the same can be said about aging them during "Part I." So it would be better to just show the age the characters were when they first appeared.

BTW, if you do reinsert the ages for "Part II characters, here's a (possible) update: I've read somewhere that Naruto's "graduation class" from "Part I" had aged 15-16 in the current chapters ("Part II") in Japan. This would mean Jiraiya age in the second part is/was 53-54.--Halls452 (talk) 03:04, 12 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Well then find it and use it as the source. Sasuke9031 (talk) 03:08, 12 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Found it (though it maybe a stretch). In Chapter 386 (Page 11) Itachi says that the Nine-Tailed-Fox attack happened "16 years ago." And the first chapters of "Part II" (Chp. 245-250 onward) states that Naruto, Sakura, etc. were age 15 and that 2 1/2 years have passed. Also, Oro trying to get Sasuke's body was suppose to happen exactly three years from the end of "Part I"; and that happened several chapters back.--Halls452 (talk) 03:46, 12 February 2008 (UTC)


 * You need a source saying something along the lines of "Naruto is 16 years old in Part II". Without that it shouldn't be added. Obviously you can do the math or look at the timeline to figure out how old each character is, but that's not good enough for a fictional topic. ~SnapperTo 04:00, 12 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Did you not read this: And the first chapters of "Part II" (Chp. 245-250 onward) states that Naruto, Sakura, etc. were age 15? Sasuke9031 (talk) 04:34, 12 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Skimming through the relevant chapters turns nothing up. Which one should I be specifically looking at? ~SnapperTo 05:03, 12 February 2008 (UTC)


 * It says the very first chapters in Part II. I think that would be a good place to start. Sasuke9031 (talk) 05:43, 12 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Ok, I've checked and it appears that although there are plenty of evidence in the chapters we can't use any of it. We'll have to wait for a Naruto Databook (about Part II) to be published and just use evidence from that. This also means that rather than use "2 1/2 years later", it may be better to use "a few years later" instead on articles concerning the Naruto manga.--Halls452 (talk) 19:43, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Creation information
Some time ago I added a bit of an early of Jiraiya but it was a bit improvised since I dont know japanese. Can somebody who knows japanese read and check if there is more info to add more? Tintor2 (talk) 21:14, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Jiraiya Killed...
One of the Pain copies before he died so he was killed by 5 bodies not 6 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.250.64.17 (talk) 21:05, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
 * 6 of the bodies had taken jirai to that point(by giving damage), after that just one of them could have finished him off.
 * Well, don't just talk about it! Put it in, then add a REFERENCE to the manga (or else it may be challenged and removed.) IceUnshattered (talk) 20:27, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Pain's bodies can revive each other, as shown when Jiraiya impaled three of them with giant kunai only to have to fight them again alongside the other three. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.26.133.248 (talk) 16:15, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
 * You dont know that each of the bodies has this "reviving" ability, or which one has it for that matter. The summoner body could have summoned the others before going into tunnel after jiraiya, for all we know.--Fotte (talk) 12:17, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Reference to the Naruto Characters page
I was re-reading the article and and saw some of the references to the character page. Namely, Uzumaki Kushina, and the Toads. There are no part that defining these characters in the Naruto Characters page. Please refrain yourselves making references to non existing character definitions. --Fotte (talk) 12:17, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

...
Stupid question but I been wondering... where are the 3 legendary sannin's headband?--Vzing —Preceding undated comment was added at 13:39, 6 September 2008 (UTC)