Talk:João Gilberto

Who is Bebel's Mother?
on Astrude Gilberto's page Bebel is mentioned as her daughter. This page lists Miucha as her mother. Why the discrepancy? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.68.225.102 (talk) 19:57, 24 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Bebel's mother is Miucha (João's second wife and sister of Chico Buarque de Holanda). Source: Ruy Castro's "Chega de Saudade" book (ISBN 85-7164-137-4), of which I have a hard copy. I'll fix Astrud's page, thanks for pointing it out. Fbergo (talk) 01:41, 25 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I couln't find any reference to Bebel on Astrud Gilberto's english wikipedia article. If this error is present somewhere, please point it out (or fix it on your own). Thanks. Fbergo (talk) 01:47, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

www.bossanovamusic.net
I don't know the problem you have with the link www.bossanovamusic.net. Yes it is a website made by me but if you had made the effort to navigate on it you'd had found a slideshow with audio about the Bossa Nova, made by myself, plant of photos of João Gilberto and about his career in the Bossa Nova movement, a siledeshow that exists only on my website and is very informative. I am musician, brazilian, I know what I'm talking about and I don't care about search engines!


 * Sites like yours are considered link spam, since Wikipedia is a powerful traffic magnet, and are removed from articles quickly. Besides, your site is completely based on Flash, therefore is considered a "link to be avoided" as per External_links, item 8 in the Links normally to be avoided section. Please do not add your site to the links sections of Wikipedia articles (they will be removed). Also, remember to sign your posts to talk pages, with four tildes. -- Fbergo 17:15, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Pronunciation
Could someone please add the IPA pronunciation of his name? Chubbles 01:55, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
 * This would be helpful. Does anyone know how to add the pronunciation code?Komowkwa (talk) 01:42, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Carlos Lyra and Roberto Menescal
"Besides a number of Jobim compositions, the album featured older sambas and popular songs from the 1940s and '50s, all performed in Gilberto's distinctive style. This album was followed by two more in 1960 and 1961, by which time the singer featured new songs by a younger generation of performer/composers such as Carlos Lyra and Roberto Menescal."

The above is inaccurate in two respects. First, he only sang two of his own songs on his first album and one on his second album. They are important songs, but he is still plays more songs from other artists on each of his albums than he does his own. It would be more accurate to say he only sings a few of his own songs. And second, he does play the songs of C. Lyra on this first album.

1. Chega de Saudade (Antonio Carlos Jobim - Vinícius de Moraes) 2. Lobo Bobo (Carlos Lyra - Ronaldo Bôscoli) 3. Brigas Nunca Mais (Antonio Carlos Jobim - Vinícius de Moraes) 4. Hô-bá-lá-lá (João Gilberto) 5. Saudade Fez um Samba (Carlos Lyra - Ronaldo Bôscoli) 6. Maria Ninguém (Carlos Lyra) 7. Desafinado (Antonio Carlos Jobim - Newton Mendonça) 8. Rosa Morena (Dorival Caymmi) 9. Morena Boca de Ouro (Ary Barroso) 10. Bim Bom (João Gilberto) 11. Aos Pés da Cruz (Marino Pinto) 12. É Luxo Só (Ary Barroso - Luiz Peixoto)

(Songwriter credits from bossanovaguitar.com)

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chega_de_Saudade_(album)"

As you see, he plays three songs by Carlos Lyra, three by Tom Jobim, Two of his own and two by the older composer Ary Barroso who wrote the famous song "Brazil". So whatever can be said of his second and third albums, can be said of his first.

Samba de uma nota só 	(Antonio Carlos Jobim - Newton Mendonça) Doralice 		(Antonio Almeida - Dorival Caymmi) Só em teus braços 	(Antonio Carlos Jobim) Trêvo de quatro folhas 	(M. Dixon - H. Woods - versão de Nilo Sergio) Se é tarde me perdôa 	(Carlos Lyra - Ronaldo Bôscoli) Um abraço no Bonfá 	(João Gilberto) Meditação 		(Antonio Carlos Jobim - Newton Mendonça) O pato 			(Jayme Silva - Neuza Teixeira) Corcovado 		(Antonio Carlos Jobim) Discussão 		(Antonio Carlos Jobim - Newton Mendonça) Amor certinho 		(Roberto Guimarães) Outra vez 		(Antonio Carlos Jobim)

On his second album, he recorded another song by Carlos Lyra, six more of Tom Jobim's, and an instrumental of his own. Where is Roberto Menescal? Of course he must have eventually recorded one of his classics (I am guessing he did record "O Barquinho")—O Barquinho is on his eponymous third album from 1961, possibly not after it had already become a classic then—, but is seems only after it became a classic and many others had recorded him first. Are they really particularly associated with each other?

Well, the above quote may be accurate concerning Roberto Menescal, but it implies that Carlos Lyra was featured only after his first album whereas he was prominently featured on his first album.

Stephen

Joao Gilberto and Showbras
Sorry but I have to put showbras yes, after 25 years were working, I'm not selling anything, just giving truthful information. The site provides information of showbras always been, that's where we find the best information, it is true. would be like trying to erase the history of the beatles the name of your business, why? Where? What crime? Call your review on the issue and how there are no lies or false interest I think is the correct entry.--Gil Lopes (talk) 17:21, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
 * You may not promote your agency on Wikipedia. Period. --jpgordon:==( o ) 23:53, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

It was not the idea but...no problem, i deleted this information. Thank you.--Gil Lopes (talk) 03:57, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

About Joao Gilberto management by ShowBras
"...Moulded into a professional act by manager Brian Epstein, their musical potential was enhanced by the creativity of producer George Martin. They gained popularity in the United Kingdom after their first single..." wikipedia-The Beatles Please check this, taken from the entry The Beatles. It is evident that the artwork in a contemporary setting has intermediation and management much importance and consideration. In the case of Joao Gilberto is no different because in 50-year career, 25 years were managed by ShowBras. So why we should not and can quote it in the encyclopedia entry. It is fair, legitimate, and is used naturally in other artists and conditions, as I remember above. I appreciate your review of the matter.--Gil Lopes (talk) 15:12, 6 July 2012 (UTC)


 * You may not promote your company on Wikipedia. The most you can do is bring this up on the article's talk page, identify yourself as being part of the company, and provide reliable sources for the information you want to include. Please read our conflict of interest policies to understand; it's not that we don't believe you, it's that every publicist in the world wants to use Wikipedia as a marketing platform, and it flies in the face of being a reliable, neutral source of information. (Is Mr. Gilberto ever going to be able to tour again? I was lucky enough to hear him in San Francisco a few years ago, and it was the best concert I've ever attended.) --jpgordon:==( o ) 15:16, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

I'm glad to know that you know and like Joao. I have no interest in promoting my business via Wiki, what was I meant to mention the fact of having worked with the artist for 25 years, it is also part of the story of his life and it is important to know that reference, as well as in the case of the Beatles that I gave as an example. The site is part of Showbras and brings the best information, including English, about Joao and so I think it is legitimate provided as a reference and not seen as an attempt at self promotion. It is 25 years, not days or months, who has to know the Showbras already know, but the encyclopedia should bring the information. It seems to me to see and before I cut the check request and relevance.--Gil Lopes (talk) 15:27, 6 July 2012 (UTC)


 * What we really need is independent press reports (or books, or magazine articles, not press releases, but independent stories) talking about the relationship between Joao and Showbras, just as there is a wealth of third-party information about George Martin's relationship with the Beatles. --jpgordon:==( o ) 18:06, 6 July 2012 (UTC)


 * don't edit articles the way you have when your conflict of interest is this blatant)

There is not any conflict, i don't use what is not permited.--Gil Lopes (talk) 19:49, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

Nice, you can have this on http://www.showbras.com.br/Artistas_e_Eventos.html, or http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=384865444858414&set=a.379967862014839.95783.100000048848934&type=3&theater ( with my photo and my wife- Veja Magazine) and all records made ​​by Joao in the last 25 years, there is production or production executive my name or the name of Showbras. It is well known. But note that I did it anyway to fix that you asked, I removed references to Showbras until you agree, so there's no reason to insist on cutting what was published, I make mention of Showbras (even though this is a folly, as I have tried to demonstrate).--Gil Lopes (talk) 19:59, 6 July 2012 (UTC)


 * You should take these to the article talk page. However, you won't get very far; those are not independent sources. We need third party sources, not promotional material from showbras.com.br. --jpgordon:==( o ) 20:24, 6 July 2012 (UTC)


 * How can there not be a conflict of interest? As far as I can tell, you and Carmela are Showbras, and you are pushing hard to get information about showbras included in Wikipedia without support from third party sources. --jpgordon:==( o ) 20:30, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

Ok, the indications I have are on site Showbras, it is legitimate. There are shown the discs, there are the posters and there is a portrayal of history. This is what I have, which disponhop and I'm ready to share. I hope that other contributions are added, but I see no reason to devalue mine. But I tried to just make these considerations direct to you on behalf of his analysis and I think no matter what I tried to remove the references to Showbras as you request. I have more to discuss, if you think you are not timely and cuts, I'd rather anticipate.--Gil Lopes (talk) 20:31, 6 July 2012 (UTC)


 * You must address this on the article talk page. I've also put up a notice about this on the conflict of interest noticeboard; perhaps someone could explain better than me. --jpgordon:==( o ) 20:36, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, no there is not any references about me or Carmela, who made the management of Joao for 25 years. But there is not any mention, i take it off after your recommendation.--Gil Lopes (talk) 20:39, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

But i would like to see where is the support from third sources about Brian Epstein on The Beatles, could you help me?--Gil Lopes (talk) 20:42, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Easy. Follow the 375 citations at The Beatles. More precisely, follow the 150 citations at Brian Epstein. --jpgordon:==( o ) 18:47, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

Very nice but i'm alive and well, me and Joao, so if you clic on www.showbras.com.br you can see about us and it is legitimate as Epstein was in his time. --Gil Lopes (talk) 01:29, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm sure that's the case -- and we can only use that in Wikipedia if we have reliable third-party sources to draw upon. --jpgordon:==( o ) 07:19, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

Then how do I do? I have to sell Showbras that my contributions are allowed on Joao Gilberto? Should I ask someone I know to go on Wikipedia and write the truth? My testimony to the Wikipedia is censored by the fact that I have participated in the story? My company is perceived as being my own person and therefore can not be cited as actually accomplished? I think the rules are being read and interpreted the wrong way and I ask that you review your concepts to Wikipedia, it makes no sense to me.--Gil Lopes (talk) 15:08, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

And please, i would like you consider your own rules: "Editing in an area in which you have professional or academic expertise is not, in itself, a conflict of interest. Using material you yourself have written or published is allowed within reason, but only if it is relevant and conforms to the content policies, particularly WP:SELFPUB. Excessive self-citation is strongly discouraged. When in doubt, defer to the community's opinion. In any case, citations should be in the third person and should not place undue emphasis on your work, giving proper due to the work of others as in a review article". That is it! We are talking about exactly these, so...--Gil Lopes (talk) 15:20, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Are you saying there is no third-party press or other media coverage of the important relationship between your agency and Mr. Gilberto? Such coverage would make this whole issue vanish as it should. Point me to a newspaper article, a magazine article, anything that's not a press release or marketing material; we need reliable verifiable sources that will allow any reader to follow the links and see that we're getting the information from an accurate, hopefully objective source. It would be as simple as, say, a paragraph in Jornal do Brasil mentioning the relationship. --jpgordon:==( o ) 16:56, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

I understand your point and as I said to you: on all of João Gilberto's records in our period ( 25 years) you have discriminated my direct participation or my wife Carmela Forsin ( production, executive production, management, etc..), we are partners in ShowBras too, that for more than 30 years producing the greatest artists of Brazil, including overseas. In the early 90's Veja magazine, Brazil's important magazine, brought Joao on the cover and published our photos and comments on the matter ( it is on our site), several publications also mention our participation, however, we did not do this important, however, and this may have been a failure or not, the fact is that we personnaly kept away from media movement. But our presence is very clear, and the site of our company is very clear. And our website is legitimate, there you can find the publications that refer to Joao as well as promotional materials such as posters and programs. Plus, being a matter of public and notorious, once published we have the possibility to check if someone contradicts. If this were not true, then we would deny other sources. The fact is that I should not prove what is true, this requirement should not fall on me. I have what I have, has the truth and history, should have no more than that.--Gil Lopes (talk) 17:52, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

I found something very funny and interesting, see: http://domacedo.blogspot.com.br/2011/06/o-mordomo-de-joao-gilberto.html Gil Lopes (talk) 18:54, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

and more: http://www.vervemusicgroup.com/artist/music/detail.aspx?pid=10548&aid=2870 --Gil Lopes (talk) 21:06, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

and much more with me and Carmela Forsin:

http://www.allmusic.com/artist/carmela-forsin-mn0001229095

http://www.discogs.com/search?q=Carmela+Forsin

http://albumcredits.com/Profile/302043 http://www.discosdobrasil.com.br/discosdobrasil/consulta/detalhe.php?Id_Disco=DI00285

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/c/carmela-forsin/2481772

http://www.nonesuch.com/albums/live-in-montreux

http://www.nordesteweb.com/not06/ne_not_20010613d.htm

http://srv-net.diariopopular.com.br/17_06_01/ip120613.html

http://www.jb.com.br/cultura/noticias/2008/03/17/o-tesouro-escondido-de-joao-gilberto/

http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/folha/ilustrada/ult90u14334.shtml

http://veja.abril.com.br/arquivo_veja/capa_30051990.shtml

Now it is going to be good.--189.60.189.35 (talk) 02:01, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
 * It might be if it was written in tolerable English, and if you didn't continue to promote your own company; I'm afraid most of it will need to be completely re-written. --jpgordon:==( o ) 15:34, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
 * It's not being allowed at João Gilberto for the same reason we can't allow it here. You must resolve the conflict of interest issue before you continue with this. --jpgordon:==( o ) 19:02, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

But what is the conflict of interest? If the manager asks me to prove and I will send a list of quotes? You compare versions and see what the richest and most true, what was and you guys insist on keeping is simply misinformation. What we have done better and ... Where it is reasonable to resolve the conflict? what is the forum, to talk to? See just above what your colleague has requested, is more than enough.--189.60.189.35 (talk) 01:25, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Head over to WP:Dispute resolution. --jpgordon:==( o ) 01:53, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
 * OK, now it's just vandalism.--jpgordon:==( o ) 15:11, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

Who is doing Vandalism?????
That's is the text in GOOD English and Real Information:

25 years ( 1984-2008) Starting with the concert at the Coliseu dos Recreios in Lisbon in June 1984 celebrating his 25-year career until his last tour in 2008 celebrating 50 years of Bossa Nova, João Gilberto was managed by Showbras[2]. In 1986, the heyday of rock Brazil, João made his first soundtrack recording for a television soap opera, the Brazilian hit of the moment "Call Me" (by Lobao). After releasing the album "Live in Montreux" in 1989, João was nominated for a Grammy for the Best Jazz Male Vocal Performance. In 1990, João joined Maria Bethania (Caetano Veloso's sister) on her album [celebrating her 25 years career]. His album "João" was released the following year, accompanied by an appearance at a national TV advert for “Brahma” beer. It was one of the first adverts to feature a major recording artist and encouraged other artists to appear in advertising campaigns. The same year saw the release of the TV series "João and Antonio" narrated by Caetano Veloso and directed by Walter Moreira Salles. The "Number One" tour [1991] marked the reunion of João and Tom Jobim on stage after more than 30 years. The concert was recorded for a TV special and distributed by VideoFilmes in several countries, including the BBC in Great Britain. "Sampa" is the only music video by João Gilberto which was directed by Brazilian filmmaker Ricardo Van Steen. In 1993, João performed at the reopening of the Teatro Castro Alves in Salvador, Bahia accompanied by Maria Bethania and Gal Costa. He also performed at the first Miami Jazz Festival held at the Jack Gleason Theater the same year. In 1994, during a live performance in Sao Paulo, a TV special was recorded to celebrate the anniversary of the Brazilian TV channel TV Cultura. The recording of the performance was released by Sony under the title "I Know That I Love You." At the Avery Fisher Hall in New York in 1995, João performed at a concert dedicated to Antonio Carlos Jobim (1927-1994)[5], involving other well-known artists such as Sting, Herbie Hancock and Astrud Gilberto. In 2001, he won a Grammy (Best World Music Album) for "João Voice and Guitar". In 2003, João performed for the first time in Japan, at Forum in Tokyo. João returned to Forum twice and recorded a live album. In June 2005, João Gilberto featured in a TV advert for Companhia Vale do Rio Doce. The advert was filmed in Rio de Janeiro and the song ends with the words "the best of Brazil is the Brazilian people." The advert was only shown on TV in October 2008 and a year later it was re-released. In 2008, João signed his biggest contract in celebration of his 50 year career, with the sponsorship of a bank[6]. Over the 25 years João Gilberto made appearances in the US, Europe and Brazil, recorded four studio albums, two live albums and featured in three Brazilian national TV advertising campaigns. --189.60.189.35 (talk) 16:19, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

Edits removed ?????
why last edits were removed ? As a Brazilian and that have followed João's life for many years, it is not understandable why latest edits were removed. The last 25 years of João's life are considered the most important ones. And it is a FACT that they were managed by a company called Showbras. It is like trying to wipe out that kind of entry from the page of The Beatles. Example "professional act by manager Brian Epstein" with a link to Brian's page. also, "The Beatles' first recording session under Martin's direction took place at EMI's Abbey Road Studios in London on 6 June 1962" with a link to Abbey Road Studios. Are we also promoting them ? I kindly request page to be unprotected and correct info reposted to the entry. Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lfcohen (talk]'''] • [[Special:Contributions/Lfcohen|contribs) 18:12, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Please familiarize yourself with Wikipedia's conflict of interest policies; those edits I removed were made by a principle of Showbras, and it's simply not acceptable to write about your own organization in that fashion. It doesn't help that you're making exactly the same argument that Gil Lopes was making. --jpgordon:==( o ) 00:51, 23 July 2012 (UTC)


 * I've fully protected the article until this is settled, here on the talk page. The article is being made worse and worse by you. --jpgordon:==( o ) 04:20, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

worse and worse by me ? What are you talking about ? Could you elaborate a bit on the concept of worse ? Anyway, this might have to be taken to arbitration as you got this into a personal issue with someone else and is hurting everyone with your edits that simply wipe out important info about Joao Gilberto. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lfcohen (talk] ] • [[Special:Contributions/Lfcohen|contribs) 14:51, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

From COI WP
1-The definition of "too close" in this context is governed by common sense. An article about a little-known band should preferably not be written by the band's manager or a band member's spouse, and a biography should preferably not be written by the subject's spouse, parent, or offspring. However, an expert on a given subject is welcome to contribute to articles on that subject, even if that editor is deeply committed to the subject. 2- It is a generally accepted standard that editors should attempt to follow, though it is best treated with common sense, and occasional exceptions may apply 3-Do not write about these things unless you are certain that a neutral editor would agree that your edits improve Wikipedia. 4-Conflict of interest is not a reason to delete an article, though other problems with the article arising from a conflict of interest may be valid criteria for deletion.--189.60.189.35 (talk) 02:39, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

I'm not talking about my organization, there is only one reference to Showbras still punctual and circumstantial. What was edited exclusively deals with the biography of entry, is his most detailed discography, finally, there are in fact contributions to the improvement of information in the library. It is true that one is dealing with something other than the entry and is therefore improper deletion practiced by the administrator, in turn, hurting everyone. --189.60.189.35 (talk) 13:21, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Annoying grammar mistakes
Would edit if page were not protected. Lots of comma splices and some lack of citation at the third paragraph from the end of the Bibliography section.
 * João Gilberto has long had a reputation as an artist who values his privacy. He lives in an apartment in Leblon, Rio de Janeiro, refusing interviews and avoiding crowds. He (also) has high standards for acoustics and noise control. He has been known to walk out on performances in response to audiences that interfere with the music by creating inappropriate noise, or out of theaters possessing poor acoustics(cn); on several occasions he requested that the air conditioning be turned off at concert venues. During a recording session of the song "Rosa Morena" Gilberto insisted on 28 takes to get the pronunciation of the 'O' in "Rosa" just right(cn).

Igomes (talk) 13:39, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I've unprotected. Hopefully the spammer has lost interest for a bit. --jpgordon:==( o ) 17:22, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Are you sure? Copy and paste? Where? Do you really think like that? What is the problem with the information, copy from where?--189.60.164.201 (talk) 15:29, 30 August 2012 (UTC)
 * ) (-5,227)‎ . . (Too much cut-and-paste from other sources here) (undo)

Changing word, against the New Censorship
You are experiencing a tremendous misunderstanding between us. I have tried to demonstrate that as a producer and entrepreneur John for 25 years I have information that improve the entry in the encyclopedia. It has been difficult to be understood and accepted, I still can not understand why. I tried to include in the entry information concerning the passage of John in Japan I imagine that it matters to the fans. A list of the key facts of the artist's career in the 25 most recent years of its history, I also seem relevant. Enter the website we have developed with texts and images of the artist, like no other website on the internet, also seems appropriate for the encyclopedia. But what we had? Misunderstanding, debates, demands. And you are fans of John .. For example, in the Amazon are accredited to administer the biography, here on Wikipedia are treated as spam. Gentlemen, how can we change this? How can we get our information published?--189.60.164.201 (talk) 01:18, 7 September 2012 (UTC) I feel very proud to have produced and touted the shows that you refer and brought so much pleasure. I would now like to ask you in order to help improve the information in your encyclopedia entry. I refer to two texts: a chronology of recent 25 years, and the data about the passing of Joao by Japan. Is it possible?--189.60.164.201 (talk) 10:03, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Regarding Amazon: Amazon allows artists and their agencies to self-publicize. Wikipedia does not; further, Wikipedia does not allow such things as what appears to be raw cutting and pasting from Amazon artist-provided biographies (or anywhere else). You still seem to have no understanding of Wikipedia's conflict of interest policies, which is what's been stopping you from working well with us. --jpgordon:==( o ) 15:37, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

Dear JPGordon, I'm not seeing any problem in omitting the name of my company if this is an embarrassment, so this is not an impediment. But I would like to ask you a question, before considering what you said. You recognize the judgment below as a rule of Wikipedia? Please tell your point of view about this:
 * 1) The definition of "too close" in this context is governed by common sense. An article about a little-known band should preferably not be written by the band's manager or a band member's spouse, and a biography should preferably not be written by the subject's spouse, parent, or offspring. However, an expert on a given subject is welcome to contribute to articles on that subject, even if that editor is deeply committed to the subject.
 * 2) It is a generally accepted standard that editors should attempt to follow, though it is best treated with common sense, and occasional exceptions may apply
 * 3) Do not write about these things unless you are certain that a neutral editor would agree that your edits improve Wikipedia.
 * 4) Conflict of interest is not a reason to delete an article, though other problems with the article arising from a conflict of interest may be valid criteria for deletion.--189.60.164.201 (talk) 21:42, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

Dear JPGordon, I really would like to know your considerations or interpretations about this 4 items-Wiki rules above, if you wonder to answer me. I think it is important to understand what is happening with my tentatives to edict Joao Gilberto. Could you please?--Gil Lopes (talk) 16:42, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Sure.
 * Common sense says that you are too close, period. You are not a deeply committed expert, you are or were in a management relationship, and few things could be closer other than a family member.
 * Occasional exceptions may apply. I've seen no reason for an exception here.
 * I'm sure you are certain that a neutral editor would agree that your edits improve Wikipedia. I'm also sure you're incorrect, since I'm a neutral editor and I disagree.
 * This is totally irrelevant, since nobody has any desire to delete this article. --jpgordon:==( o ) 01:22, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

Dear JPGordon, When I say that it is a censorship based on personal interpretation of the censor of what should be or not, I'm not wrong. Note that your performance is conditioned by your subjectivity, and you think that's enough. We are in the free encyclopedia and I think differently, for what it's your decision? It is censorship. You do not consider myself an expert on the subject, is simply a personal interpretation. Just because I'm living with him diary I became directly qualifying as an expert, especially since even I produced some of his albums (just look at the credits, it is me or my wife Carmela: in "JOAO", "EU SEI QUE VOU TE AMAR", "JOAO VOZ E VIOLAO", "IN TOKIO", and others..,). My observation complements objectively entry, when I present the list of achievements over recent 25 years I bring valuable information for understanding what the artist is. For example participations in advertising, it can be anything in the U.S., in Brazil it was a milestone in advertising and in music. His presence in Asia, where and when. Clearly this is important in the encyclopedia. And worst of all, where do you think I have been incorrect? I wonder which information do you judge wrong. Censorship is simply you think I'm incorrect and therefore delete what I write. But am I incorrect in which? What information you judge incorrect? The incorrect, incomplete and poorly done is what is published. The sources are very poor and inadequate, and there are much better free encyclopedia must use the best. It makes no sense to condemn the entry. Conflict of interest is not a reason to delete an article...i understand this talking about my article. I understand the rule as a protection to the subjective judgment of an article which has a conflict of interest. My article should not be deleted on account of its subjective idea that this is an attempt to marketing. Informing the dates and locations of shows in Japan during the 90s? Informing advertising campaigns that the artist participated? Informing about his meeting with Tom Jobim? Informing the artist's career and accomplishments in a panel of his recent 25 years? Why censor it? In the name of which rule? Or just the exercise of censorship that unfortunately gave Wikipedia? I am requesting that you make a sincere self-criticism and review this article and allowing the information sent is posted. What do you objectively disagrees, please I'm ready to report.And for your information, the Showbras continues to represent Joao Gilberto and added the word OFFICIAL website hosted in the showbras, which is insistently disqualified for you reference. I suggest that you particularly like Joao, make a visit.--Gill 05:38, 11 September 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm not involved in this article as an editor, solely as an administrator. So I will leave the discussion of specific issues to Jpgordon and any other editors interested in the subject.  I do want to give you (the IP editor) some general information, however.  Most of this is in the welcome template we try to place on editors' talk pages, but it is difficult when there are multiple IP addresses involved.
 * Wikipedia is not simply a user-generated content site; it is user-generated content to create an encyclopedia article. We have our own policies against promotion, conflict of interest, original research, and copy/pasting content from other places (those are all links to Wikipedia policies).  You may know something is a fact, but unless you can verify it by reference to independent, reliable secondary sources, it cannot go into the article.  Furthermore, the decision on whether to include information that is verifiable in reliable sources is still a matter of discussion among the editors interested in the subject, so it is quite possible for true information to be left out of the article, either because it is not verifiable, or because there is not a consensus that it is important to include it.
 * Comparing us to Amazon, or to a fan site, is comparing apples and oranges and grapefruit; the end result is completely different. Amazon is ultimately trying to sell something; a fan site is ultimately celebrating the artist's work; Wikipedia is ultimately trying to have a neutral, verifiable, reliably sourced encyclopedia article. Our conflict of interest policies can be difficult to work with, but it's vital that you do so. --Floquenbeam (talk) 16:52, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

Dear Floquenbeam, I fully understand your comments and I have qualified me in understanding what is Wikipedia, I decided to take action on what I do not agree, or complement what seems obscure. This is my only motivation. What I observe, and I beg your permission to suggest a self critique necessary and important, is that despite interest in forming an free encyclopedia, Wikipedia is operating as a New Censorship. Your editors assume positions and conclusions that deliberately prevent once the information fair, correct and necessary to circulate freely. It is undeniable the potential of this instrument but we must realize that we are designing and how this is happening. You need to review in depth the foundations of what is being done, it is absolutely unreasonable what is happening in the entry of Joao Gilberto, for example, and we believe in a free world--189.60.164.201 (talk) 22:01, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

Joao in Japan, the saga
In an attempt to include the information and only the information concerning the presence of Joao in Japan, I cut any REFERENCE which could refer to another text, whatever. Only the facts are disclosed. I hope it is finally possible to circulate the information without any doubt about copyright since it is not a copy but a simple narrative about what happened, as indeed is expected of an encyclopedia, free.--Gill 08:14, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

No, there is not any Copyright violations
Dear Mr.JpGordon I was unfamiliar with the text you showed me. But what is important is the following, which makes this text authorial if it only reports an event. What I published is similar but not the same and only reports the information. The dates, where are the dates? Why cut them? What about information, almost a fact sheet, keep it as being copy is to act with absolutely maliciously, you sorry but again I notice that your intention to censor and prevent the flow of information is higher and is that mobilizes unfortunately. I published the dates of the events narrated and so absolutely unprecedented succession of facts without any adjectives that characterize a authored text. Frankly, it is inadmissible as a performance impregnated intolerance like yours. That everything will be in the annals the fight for freedom of information against this obscure behavior. I do not accept your arguments, which are unfair and without technical qualification, there is no copyright being injured.--Gill 08:03, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
 * You are simply wrong. Here is what you inserted in the article: Remarkably, this was the first time he had ever performed in that country. The shows were recorded from the sound boards on to DAT tapes for reference only, but Gilberto was so pleased with both the quality of the sound and his performance that he decided to release one of these landmark concert on CD. In Tokyo spotlights the September 12, 2003 performance at the Tokyo International Forum Hall. Joao returned in 2004 and again in November 2006. Here is the text from jazzreview.com:  Remarkably, this was the first time he had ever performed in that country. The shows were recorded from the sound boards on to digital audio tapes for reference only, but Gilberto was so pleased with both the quality of the sound and his performance that he decided to release one of these landmark concerts on CD. In Tokyo spotlights the Sept. 12, 2003, performance at the Tokyo International Forum Hall. Oh, here's another thing it says on jazzreview.com: 1997 - 2012 © jazzreview.com. We take copyright very seriously here, and your complaints about "freedom of information" do not trump Wikipedia's copyright policies. Perhaps you didn't read underneath the edit box where it says, quite clearly, quite unambiguously, Content that violates any copyrights will be deleted. I promise you, though, if you do this again your editing privileges will be revoked. --jpgordon:==( o ) 14:39, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Dear Mr.JpGordon As I told you're avid for delete, to find a reason to justify their practice while I'm interested in putting in the encyclopedia information correct and true. The similarity between the texts is due only the quality of what they refer. You would be such inaugurating the copyright with your assessment of what is a copy. This is an event that should be narrated in the same manner as is the fact. Not copy, it is the fact! You want to be more realistic than the king, if you know what I mean, just because you want to delete, in their eagerness to disallow, to practice its censorship. But please I ask you a help. As you as mastery of your language and being a fan of Joao Gilberto, how would you say the same thing, since information is the fact so unless deleted by your reasons for? Can I ask you this help? They are just two sentences. Brazil and the world thank you in advance for supporting the entry Joao Gilberto, in my, in your, in our encyclopedia, free. Thank you very much.--Gill 15:32, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
 *  The similarity between the texts is due only the quality of what they refer. What nonsense. The similarity between the texts is because one is copied directly from the other. No, at this point, I suggest you ask someone for assistance over at the Portuguese language talk page for Gilberto, since as far as I can tell, you are unable to understand what multiple people are telling you here on the English Wikipedia. Perhaps some experienced user there will be able to help you understand the difficulties you keep running into. --jpgordon:==( o ) 17:12, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

The real thing
Dear Mr. JpGordon This is an event that should be narrated in the same manner as is the fact. That is the sentence and it is not nonsense. Observe: What is these sentences? do you think someone may have copyright on these sentences? you attribute character to copy these sentences? are you being serious? you are being fair? Therefore it is absolutely legitimate for me to receive your contributions, and your colleagues from Wikipedia, as an expression of a particular New Censorship.--Gill 08:53, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
 * 1) This was the first time he had ever performed in that country.
 * 2) The shows were recorded from the sound boards on to digital audio tapes for reference only
 * 3) Gilberto was so pleased with both the quality of the sound and his performance
 * 4) In Tokyo spotlights the September 12, 2003 performance at the Tokyo International Forum Hall

How can we improve Joao Gilberto?

 * I feel like we've discussed this before; maybe it was with one of the IP editors though. Propose specific, concrete changes on the article talk page which follow our policies and guidelines (I left a list of applicable policies and guidelines on the article talk page a week or two ago). Don't write long paragraphs on the talk page about the horrible unfair censorship on Wikipedia, because when I see that, frankly, I tune out anything else you say, and I suspect most people are similar. Instead, propose actual changes to the article. Try to get consensus for the changes, which means other people besides those associated with Showbras need to agree. If you cannot get consensus, follow the steps in WP:dispute resolution, including a third opinion, a request at The Music Wikiproject for more editors to comment, or a Request for comment. If you still don't get consensus, then stop trying to make that change. --Floquenbeam (talk) 21:53, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Dear Floquenbeam, Thank you for your answer. Now I just tried to post information concerning Japan and album recorded in artist's passage there. I includes reference. Let's see if somehow we begin a new path. But I regret to say that my observation about censorship on Wikipedia deserved a more thorough analysis and a recognition of something must change.--Gill 06:50, 22 September 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gil Lopes (talk • contribs)
 * Why would you ask me a question about improving the article if you didn't care what my answer was? That is most clearly not what I suggested; indeed, it is the same behavior that led to the page being protected from editing in the past. It is finally, slowly dawning on me that none of you are confused, none of you are asking honest questions, none of you are looking for help... you're just dishonestly trying to get your own way by exhausting good faith editors. If you continue this behavior, I will be forced to fully protect the page for a year, to force you and your IP friends/employees/coworkers/sockpuppets/whatever to propose changes on the talk page first. I do not think there is a point to your posting anything on my talk page anymore. I won't spend time answering dishonest questions. --Floquenbeam (talk) 22:25, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

Dear Sir, is absolutely embarrassing receive these your words, especially for your inelegance. Your judgment and your attitude as a censor are compatible with what we perceive in the environment that you want to impose in your encyclopedia. This your lack of respect with a Brazilian producer is only a symptom of a far worse badly of your arrogance. there is no dialogue possible with you and such behavior spreads and it is a role model. We will fight inspired by the ideas of the free world against the New Censorship, yes it was unfair.--Gill 08:27, 30 September 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gil Lopes (talk • contribs)

External links modified
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Father of bossa nova
Should not this article say that he was known as the father of bossa nova music? Vorbee (talk) 08:05, 7 July 2019 (UTC)
 * The usual grand claim but if there's a reputable source for it (preferably not some pulp press! or the usual fawning posthumous bio, an expert publication, perhaps), make the edit. On a cursory reading, it seems there may be contestants or at least this was a confusing mix of DNA making paternity hard to really pin down. sirlanz 08:14, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

Discontinuity needs fix
In the section Carlos Lyra and Roberto Menescal the text reads:

"In August of that year, Gilberto released a 78 rpm record containing "Chega de Saudade" and "Bim Bom", recorded at Odeon, with collaborations from Jobim, Dorival Caymmi and Aloysio de Oliveira. This album inaugurated the "bossa nova" genre and soon became a commercial success. Gilberto's recording had arrangements by Jobim and the participation of Milton Banana, among other artists."

At first it refers to "a 78 rpm [sic] record", which is a single, one song each side; then it claims the single had collaborations from three other songwriters and refers to an "album" that the text hasn't introduced. 192.34.130.239 (talk) 15:27, 3 February 2024 (UTC)