Talk:Joan, Lady of Wales

Lady of Snowdon
Why is she titled LADY OF SNOWDON? Was that a title conferred upon her by her father? Also, wouldn't she be a Princess of England since she was legitimized by the Pope? Lskr (talk) 06:45, 6 May 2009 (UTC)


 * It was a title she used as we know from letters she wrote. Probably because her husband was known as "Lord of Eryri" (Snowdonia) - I think. Deb (talk) 19:29, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Why is she known as Lady of Wales instead of Princess of Wales, if her husband is Prince of Wales?Drachenfyre 08:45, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Princess of Wales is a courtesy title held by the wife of the Prince of Wales since the first "English" Prince of Wales in 1282. This Joan was the wife of a "Welsh" Prince of Wales and thus didn't receive the title princess.
 * Due to the mortality rate and the fact that some Princes of Wales did not marry before ascending to the throne, there have in fact been only ten Princesses of Wales. The first being the wife of the Black prince, Joan of Kent (held title 1361–1376) -- fdewaele, 23 febaruary 2007, 10:35.
 * Why could not the wife of the Welsh prince of Wales receive the curtesy title of Princess of Wales? Drachenfyre 05:02, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

In fact Joan, half sister of Henry III, was kept away from the eyes of the world at the royal home Garth Celyn, presumably to hide the fact that she was pregnant. History constantly repeats itself. An example: the son, Michael, born to Princess Margaret. The sister of the Queen of England was hidden from view during her pregnancy at Faenol Hall, near Bangor.BrynLlywelyn 10:30, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
 * The reference to Joan's imprisonment at Llanfaes is a fiction invented by the novelist Sharon Penman in 'Here Be Dragons' and should not be included with the facts that are known. When asked why she had chosen Llanfaes, Sharon's reply was 'I thought that it would be more romantic in the eyes of my readers.'


 * The comment above by BrynLlywelyn states that a son Michael was born to Princess Margaret as if it was a fact, which of course it was not. I have not heard before of an alleged son of Joan and William de Braose. Substantiation for this point should be provided if it is to be taken seriously. Welys (talk) 11:40, 29 May 2008 (UTC) Welys 29 May 08

Note I
This sentence doesn't make sense, I have removed it for someone else to source and revise. SedatedGodzilla 02:16, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Note II
In Welsh, Joan's name is written as "Siwan" because that was her real name, she was celtiv but the english call her joan"

Note III
The listing of Joan's mother as "Regina Clementina" may not mean "Queen Clemence" - particularly as there is no record of this woman Clemence and she certainly was not the Queen.

Clementia means mercy and also can be used to address someone e.g. "Clementia tua" means "Your Grace". This could mean "Her Grace the Queen".

She is not, however, a daughter of King John and Isabelle of Angouleme, so this does not solve the mystery of who her mother is, but it may be a valid alternative interpretation - only however if the word is clementia rather than clementina. Welys (talk) 11:40, 29 May 2008 (UTC) Welys 29 May 08

Joan, Lady of Wales
History recounts that John Lackland "gave" Joan to Llywelyn the Great in 1205. At that time, Joan would have been about 15. Curiously, a number of family trees at Ancestry.com list Joan as having had a baby about a year or two earlier than that by the son of Lord Ralph de Albini. Could there be any truth to this? Might this be why John got her out of England68.37.241.110 (talk) 19:14, 16 April 2010 (UTC) BarryB

William de Braose
The article (and linked articles) suggests that WdeB was intended to be Joan's brother-in-law, not her son-in-law, so I have reverted the edit that described him as the latter. If this is incorrect, please explain the relationship here. RGCorris (talk) 10:17, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

Inconsistent date of birth
The date of birth is either 1191 or 1192. I see an inconsistency on this page (introduction and box). Versions in Italian, Spanish and Portuguese all use 1191.

ICE77 (talk) 04:26, 18 August 2020 (UTC)


 * I think the article is clear about the fact that we don't know her date of birth, nor are we ever likely to. As an illegitimate child, it's unlikely her date of birth would have been recorded anywhere in writing. Deb (talk) 09:22, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

If that's the case the box must match the introduction. There must not be different. Then the articles in Italian, Spanish and Portuguese must be corrected as well.

ICE77 (talk) 19:44, 19 September 2020 (UTC)

Llwelyn ap Lorwerth 'the Great'
In this article, Llwelyn ap Lorwerth 'the Great' is described as the husband of Joan a.k.a. Siwan, 'Lady of Wales', 'Lady of Snowdon', Princess of Wales'; I was researching the 'ap' 'ab' and it has been suggested in one article different from the following, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_surnames, that 'ap' is placed before a consanant, 'ab' before a vowel. When I click on the link from this article for Llwelyn ap Lorwerth, that article page reflects 'Llwelyn ab Lorwerth'. Why is this? 75.134.159.146 (talk) 20:33, 5 February 2024 (UTC)