Talk:Joan Armatrading/Archive 1

Guest spot
Should some mention be made of her guest spot on Queen's 1986 A Kind Of Magic album? She sang some vocals on "Don't Lose Your Head". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wagimawr (talk • contribs) 22:07, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

celebrity fan
Way back in nineteen eighty dot I remember Rob Mortimer, as he was then known, at a couple of parties in Middlesbrough raving about how good Joan Armatrading was. I wonder which other celebrity fans she has. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.219.119.164 (talk) 16:01, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Who's Rob Mortimer? BennyFromCrossroads 07:57, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Merger
Merge since the song doesnt merit a separate article and is unsourced. Theforc3 17:34, 15 February 2007 (UTC) Merge -- there's not enough in this for a separate article Hypnopomp 11:42, 27 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Merge - I think this main article should be improved before spawning sub-articles. As it is, this article is rated as a stub. Perhaps with the inclusion of more material on individual songs we might raise that to GA (Good Article) status.--Dogbertd 19:14, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Chronology
The chronology makes no sense: she was born in 1950, but moved with her family to Birmingham in 1947? Can onyone get the facts and change this?--Dogbertd (talk) 08:51, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

First Public Appearance?
I recall hearing that Joan's (I don't know her, is it acceptable for me to use her first name?) brother was entertainment officer at Birmingham University and when the booked band failed to turn up he called on her to take to the stage. If this is true it might be nice to mention it.81.131.8.242 (talk) 16:08, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
 * That's a very nice story and I'm sure it would be added if anyone could provide a reliable source. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:51, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Personal life
"Armatrading lives in Surrey, in the U.K." This one line entry for her 'personal life' is a joke. Giving the county where she lives is not personal information! Has someone removed any real references to her personal life and sexual orientation? Funny how there's no mention of her involvement in the gay rights True Colors tour organised by Cyndi Lauper...the closest Joan Armatrading has come to making a statement about the decades old speculation that she's lesbian or bisexual. Vauxhall1964 (talk) 21:40, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
 * We can print what we can find in reliable sources. If you feel the article is missing material, add it, as long as it meets our guidelines for information about living people. -- The Red Pen of Doom  22:40, 9 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Why is so much materiel being removed as "unsourced" in the personal life section? Fact tag it if it is uncontroversial, delete it is it's really unsourced and potentially defamatory.  The current entry is absurd and the pruning of it is over-zealous (tantamount to vandalism) in the extreme. 86.159.25.213 (talk) 17:32, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Perhaps reading our policies will give context:
 * WP:V: "Editors should provide a reliable source for quotations and for any material that is challenged or likely to be challenged, or the material may be removed." (emph added)
 * WP:BURDEN: As Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales has put it:


 * *WP:BLP: "Editors must take particular care adding biographical material about a living person to any Wikipedia page. Such material requires a high degree of sensitivity, and must adhere strictly to all applicable laws in the United States and to all of our content policies, especially:
 * Neutral point of view (NPOV)
 * Verifiability
 * No original research
 * The answer for your concern about the paucity of information regarding her personal life is to supply appropriate material that is reliably sourced. -- The Red Pen of Doom  17:55, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Is being a lesbian considered to be "negative information about living persons"? At http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1028228/The-truth-men-life-lesbian-rumours-Valerie-Singleton.html, Valerie Singleton refers to her a "lesbian singer-songwriter Joan Armatrading" and later refers to Armatrading's girlfriend without any seeming expectation of being contradicted. Frankly, the horror seeming to be shown at even suggesting lesbianism smacks more of homophobia (yes, you, boys) than a Saintly Quest for Neutrality. Or, to put it another way, show me where and which entries have had parts excised because the people in them have never said they are heterosexual. - Ann Burlingham —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ann Burlingham (talk • contribs) 05:22, 4 August 2009 (UTC)


 * In all probability, Armatrading herself is removing this info. Uncontroversial stuff like where her village is (she lives next door to me) finds itself removed lightning fast.  Ho hum..86.168.154.119 (talk) 19:02, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Throwing around accusations of homophobia is not productive. Our policies are clear: content about living people must be reliably sourced. All articles must be presented in a neutral point of view. We do not print Wikipedia editors' "personal knowledge". Sources must have a reputation for fact checking and accuracy. -- The Red Pen of Doom  23:48, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Civil Partnership
Before the news of her forthcoming civil partnership is re-added, could anyone (else) explain why this information should not appear? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:46, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Er, sorry. I have reverted one removal (but so have 5 other editors-nine times-since your post here!) - 220.101 User talk:220.101.28.25\ 18:05, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I was probably naively expecting some kind of slow reasonable discussion, that never happened. Apologies for raising the straw man of "valid" removal. The issue seems to have now been resolved, but only for 24 hours. Thank you for your efforts in any case. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:49, 28 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Unfortunate when editors are unwilling to even 'acknowledge' the existence of others editing the same page! (or use an edit summary & breach 3RR on 2 consecutive days). I think our editor has a 'bee in their bonnet' about Mz. Armatrading. (could say obsessed, but that be a big AGF Fail.) Just another day on the Wikipædia Wiki World. • Removal of reliably cited text, without giving a reason, should be reverted on sight. If it continues it becomes vandalism (IMHO). (Reverting "obvious vandalism" won't take you over 3RR) The block is a good thing. At least it might get their attention and bring them to a talk page. Or they may not edit for another 20 months. ;-) - 220.101 User talk:220.101.28.25\ 05:49, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Long term girlfriend
I would like some help and advice on how to get the words long term girlfriend taken out of the article in Wikipedia in the personal life section. This has to be speculation surely, because Miss Armatrading has never given any information to the media about her personal life in her 40 year career. Please look at this section (Bertbert1 (talk) 13:04, 3 May 2011 (UTC))


 * I think is what needed here is a citation for the statement. This can either take the form of one or two really reliable ones using the phrase or several from different periods which each show the other person's name in connection with her. Bertbert1 is trying to prove a negative, which is kinda difficult. - Sitush (talk) 13:18, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Removed "long term" which I could not find any reliable source for. Replaced "partner" with "girlfriend" based on . -- Neil N    talk to me  13:48, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
 * That seems perfectly fair. A Google search for "Joan Armatrading" + "Maggie Butler" - "wiki" produces 933 hits for the web, but I too could not find amongst those any WP:RS for the length of any relationship. The Shetland Times notes that ".. a Maggie Butler designed the artwork for her 1979 live album Steppin’ Out" and I think most other publications have made some assumptions based on this. In fact, I'm not sure what the Lesbilicious source provides anything that isn't fully provided by the Shetland Times, apart from the use of the word "girlfriend", which is also used by the Australian StarObserver. So I'd suggest perhaps replacing the Lesbilicious source with the StarObserver one. But it doesn't make much difference. The primary source is, apparently, the noticeboard oustide The Registrar and Court House building on Lerwick’s Hillhead - and I don't think you'll find any mention of "girlfriend" on that. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:54, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

Pronunciation
Maybe it's a strange question, maybe not...I just haven't found this info ANYWHERE online, and I hope someone can share. How in the blue heck do you pronounce her last name? Please don't use the IPA or whatever it's called, because I don't know the symbols. Just phonetically, is it "Arm - AH - truh - ding"? Maybe a pronounciation, or a recording of somone speaking her name, would benefit this article for people in the same situation as myself? It's a very uncommon name, at least in my experience... Thanks - 68.192.215.104 (talk) 03:57, 20 March 2011 (UTC)


 * ARM-AH-TRADE-ING. It rhymes with "armour-plating". 88.104.27.223 (talk) 22:49, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

LGBT Project
Is she a lesbian or bisexual? I've heard both applied to her. Is she a lesbian or bisexual? I've heard both applied to her. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.46.22.195 (talk) 20:40, 13 July 2005 (UTC)


 * And what news shall we provide. One, the other, both or none at all.
 * Then you would have read it too: both, one, the other or none at all.
 * I do not give a lot for that, as you might venture... who does.--Psycho Chicken 10:54, 4 September 2005 (UTC)


 * why is asexual never listed in the LGBT option list? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.202.173.95 (talk) 11:14, 9 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Why is she part of WikiProject LGBT studies? Has she been outspoken about LGBT issues? Wouldn't that be unsourced or poorly sourced? --Knulclunk 06:23, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I've no idea why she's in the LGBT project, since she clearly regards her sexuality as her own business, and has never come out, AFAIK. It is therefore - as you say - completely unsourced speculation. If she chooses not to define herself by her sexuality, then I think her fans should respect that.--Dogbertd 10:35, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

She is a closet case, no matter what her sexuality is. The fact of the matter is she seems to be about her music and that's it. I would define her as a one sided person. I LOVE her music and musicianship and that's it.Teladria (talk) 05:49, 14 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I noticed this website- and Joan Armatrading is clearly listed, but it isn't what I'd call a reliable reference, though it's hard to dismiss: --Leahtwosaints (talk) 08:43, 18 July 2010 (UTC)


 * I would have thought that, unless she has raised the issue publicly herself. in an interview which can be shown in a reliable cource, the guidelines for biograpgy of living persons would suggest that her sexuality is a private matter that she herself would not wish to see discussed as part of an encyclopedia? Martinevans123 (talk) 09:35, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I think more needs to be said about her sexuality. She got married this year! Alexandre8 (talk) 22:31, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
 * But what more can be said, unless one has new reliable source(s)? In fact, exactly what more needs to be said? As far as I know, Armatrading herself has never spoken openly about her own sexuality or wanted it discussed in the media; has never seen it as an important part of her own personality; has never made a stand for LGBT equality; etc., etc. And see the discussions at two other places on this Talk page. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:47, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Well I was just surprised to see it as a footnote a the bottom of the page. I've been a fan of Joan for years and never knew she was lesbian. I was wondering if anyone knew of any reason why it was so under the rug. I don't really have anything in particular in mind, but I'm just used to reading largish sections about how a gay popstar has been involved in this that or the other organisation to do with gayissues.If there's nothing to say there's nothing to say and that's fine too. Alexandre8 (talk) 02:12, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
 * My own personal viewpoint is that the topic shold not feature highly here, since she herself has never shown she wanted it to feature highly in her public personna. I think this is covered by the guidelines for BLP. Otherwise there is the danger that wikipedia is seen as some kind of tabloid detective agency, revealing "the secrets of the stars". Yes, she's married to another woman. That's a fact. But I'm not sure this necessarily puts her firmly into the "lesbian category", even if that's convenient for an encyclopedia. I'm not sure that she even approves of such categories at all. But what do others think? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:50, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
 * FWIW, I agree; I think the coverage of her sexuality is adequate as it is. Graham 87 15:09, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm cool with that. Alexandre8 (talk) 17:58, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

Joan Armatrading the first British female singer/songwriter black or white to have international success

 * Copied from my talk page. Graham 87 14:37, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Hi Graham In one of the articles on Joan on her wikipedia page it mentions that Joan Armatrading is the first Black UK female singer/songwriter to have international success. In fact Joan is the first Black OR White UK female singer/songwriter to have international success. All female artists before her, Petula Clarke, Dusty Springfield, or any other female name you mention were not singer/songwriters. This is a historic fact that I'm sure can be checked against records. Could we get this changed to the correct statement Joan Armatrading is the first female UK singer/songwriter to have international success. Cheers (Bertbert1 (talk) 14:06, 6 December 2011 (UTC)).


 * Broadly, I agree with you. But unfortunately, the cited source (the National Portrait Gallery page about Armatrading, whose link I've just fixed) specifically says that she "became the first Black British female singer/songwriter to enjoy international success"; never mind the blatant paraphrasing in our article. I'd preferably like to find a source that specifically says that she was the first internationally successful British female singer-songwriter of *any* ethnic background before changing it, but I'm on a dial-up Internet connection at the moment so I can't really go source-hunting right now. Any other thoughts? Graham 87 14:37, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Not sure that "Welsh" is an ethnic type, but was this artist classed as a singer-songwriter (even if she didnt' write her biggest hit)? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:02, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Hey all, I'm not even sure that ethnicity needs to be mentioned here. We all know she's black. If she was truely the first brit to get international faim then just write "She was the first Brit to get international faim". emphasis on her skin colour, whilst interesting from other points of view isn't intrinsically relevent I don't think. p.s i cant find the tiles so ill let autobot sign it, my computer has just got fixed and now i have a french keyboard lol. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alexandre8 (talk • contribs) 03:17, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately the bot only works for users with less than 800 edits if I recall correctly, so I've just performed the bot's role for you. :-) I agree that her ethnicity is not that important ... maybe the NPG emphasised it on that page because the exhibition is all about black British female singers. Re: Mary Hopkin: not that I'm aware of ... in this interview, she basically says that she only became a songwriter after her stint with Apple Records, and I don't think those records were commercially successful. Graham 87 04:10, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Sandy Denny springs to mind as a British singer-songwriter who predated Joan Armatrading, albeit not by much. :) Perhaps we cold also count Christine McVie. I suspect others might turn up with a bit of digging - it depends a bit on what constitutes international success, and when it is said to have occurred. - Bilby (talk) 06:34, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, Sandy Denny is a distinct possibility, even though probably more famous as being part of a band. But I'd discount Christine McVie both for coming later and for being successful only as a member of a band. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:46, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
 * "Who Knows Where the Time Goes?" by Sandy Denny seals it for me, as it's first widely known version was recorded by an American in 1968,and it's apparently been covered many times. Thank-you for introducing me to that beautiful, beautiful song. Graham 87 15:37, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
 * There's no denying that that song is a work of musical genius. But the Denny article currently says only this: "A tape of that solo version found its way into the hands of American singer Judy Collins, who chose to cover it as the title track of an album of her own, released in November 1968, thus giving Denny international exposure as a songwriter before she had become widely known as a singer." There's no claim in her article that she was "the first British female singer/songwriter to have international success". Indeed her singing of that song only really became famous as a Fairport song. But if we accept that she was notable as a singer/songwriter within that group, then yes her international success would certainly pre-date Armatrading's by at least six or seven years. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:22, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

All of the females mentioned in regards to having international success before Joan were either, not song writers before Joan had her international success or were song writers in bands and were not known as a solo artist and a song writer and therefore did not have success as a known solo singer/songwriter. The Sandy Denny song was not an international success for Sandy Denny as a solo singer/songwriter. Regarding Mary Hopkin she did not write her big international hit, THOSE WERE THE DAYS. Gene Raskin wrote English lyrics for a Russian folk song. Paul McCartney wrote GOODBYE. She had a top forty single with a song called, TEMMA HARBOUR but she didn’t write that either. She had a Eurovision second-place song, KNOCK KNOCK WHO'S THERE, she didn’t write that. She may have written songs later in her career, but she never had international success as a singer/songwriter. Joan is the first UK artist black or white to have had international success. The national Gallery might have cited Joan as the first black artist but they have presumed, wrongly that a white person must have had that honour before her. In fact they should have done their research before writing that statement. Joan is the first female singer/songwriter (black or white) in the UK to have international success. This needs to be corrected and someone needs to tell the National Portrait Gallery. (Bertbert1 (talk) 13:07, 10 December 2011 (UTC)).
 * I wholly agree with your analysis of Mary Hopkin. Also tend to agree with your analysis of Sandy Denny, but her case seems less clear cut. As regards the NG, they seemed to be wanting to emphasise the fact that Armatrading was black. Her ethnic background might make her success more surprising in that era, it might not. That's debateable. But yes, the exact claim they made seems to be wrong. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:41, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
 * The difficulty is that this is so much dependent on definitions. I guess it seems to me that Sandy Denny's first full solo album, on which she wrote most of the material, trumps Armatrading's first solo album which was largely co-written, by coming out in 1971 as opposed to 1972. But that doesn't mean that there isn't a way of looking at things such that Armatrading isn't the first British solo singer-songwriter to receive international success, but that this is very much dependent on how you look at it, making it something we can't really add without a fairly solid source backing it up. We can back up the first female black singer-songwriter claim, though, so I'm very comfortable with that, even if it is possible to make additional claims beyond that. - Bilby (talk) 00:20, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree with the above message. It could be argued that Joan Armatrading didn't become "internationally successful" (whatever that is) until the release of her 1976 self-titled album, which, as far as I know, was the first of her albums to gain substantial critical and commercial acclaim. But I could be wrong ... I wasn't around when either of these albums were released! Unfortunately Sandy Denny only released one album after that time, Rendezvous. IMO we'd need a very good source to remove "black" from the description at this point. Graham 87  07:34, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
 * her Allmusic biography says that that she "was her country's -- as well as Britain's -- first woman to make commercial inroads into her chosen genre [being a singer-songwriter]". So we can use that as a source, but the mention of commercial success is important. I'm not sure if Sandy Denny's solo work was that commercially successful; I don't know where to get the chart information for it, but if they were on the charts, the Wikipedia articles about the respective albums would have surely mentioned that fact. Graham 87 08:26, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
 * It seems that only one of Denny's albums, Sandy was released on a US label (A&M). And I can find no sources that say that any of her solo albms ever charted. In fact, in her three years of "successful" solo work it seems she never really "toured" in her own right, even in the UK. Armatrading's first hit album in 1976 made 12 in the UK and 67 in US. So a "black or white" claim seems quite fair. But any other candidates? Martinevans123 (talk) 09:35, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I fear the problem here is that we're going too far down the track of original research in trying to work out whether or not Armatrading was the first internationally successful British singer-songwriter. My point, I guess, with Sandy Denny was that we can't evaluate this ourselves, as there is always a chance that there were others who were successful before her, and the nature of success is so up in the air. What we need is a source that makes this clear that we can reference, rather than taking the (admittedly enjoyable) route of working out who else is in the running. :) I don't think the Allmusic biography really works, either, as we have to guess what is meant by "genre" - in the end, I think we're just best off going with the wording from the NPG unless something better comes along. - Bilby (talk) 09:44, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Quite agree. A source needs to be reliable, not necessarily true! (apparently) But black or white, Armatrading's achievement in this regard seems largely overlooked and should certainly be referenced somehow. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:18, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Just to throw one more name into the ring: Lynsey de Paul's song "Sugar Me" (among other singles) hit the charts in the UK and other countries a good few years before Armatrading's self-titled album was released. I just discovered this piece (and the artist!) while going through a CD collection of '70s hits that I bought today. (Not the sort of thing that I'd normally get, but it's the best use of a Sanity voucher that I could find!) For what it's worth, her Allmusic bio describes her as "one of the first successful female singer/songwriters in England". Therefore I definitely agree that we should keep the text as it is. Graham 87 08:07, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Goodness me, you lucky chap. I often feel I'm in need of a sanity voucher. But was Lynsey even heard of in the States? Martinevans123 (talk) 08:55, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
 * IMO, the Sanity music store is just blatantly misnamed. Especially since my music playing software mislabelled 100 of the 101 tracks on the aforementioned 5-CD set, so I've spent most of today sorting that out! To me, "international" doesn't necessarily have to include the United States. But here we go again, into original research territory. Graham 87 15:41, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
 * You are quite right, her article shows that the 1972 single was a hit in Germany, Holland, Spain, Austria, Belgium, Sweden and Australia. I guess "international" could actually just mean UK and Eire? It seems unlikely that the NPG will ever feature Ms de Paul. But she definitely wasn't very black. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:12, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Appearance on "The One Show"
My edit that she appeared on The One Show got removed on the grounds that a source did not say she was on it. However, this website:

http://blog.propermusic.com/?p=36405

does say that she was to appear on "The One Show". As the Wikipedian who removed my edit about this pointed out, it says on her own website that she was to appear on "The One Show"! ACEOREVIVED (talk) 18:41, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
 * She did indeed appear (approx 09:20 - 13:50). The One Show link is here (programme available on iplayer for the next 6 days). Rather annoyingly, however, she does not appear in the synopsis text. So we may have to await a review for a ref? Martinevans123 (talk) 20:01, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I've re-added the info. I'll believe you all, although I can't view the show here in Australia. I was probably being a bit petulant ... in hindsight the footage itself would be an adequate source! Graham 87 02:24, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Four and a half minutes is unlikely to prompt a review, but you never know. There was nothing new really, but she looked very well. Martinevans123 (talk) 07:12, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Personally, I don't think it's significant enough to warrant inclusion anyway. She wasn't presenting the show, and the show wasn't specifically about here - are we intending to list every occasion where she has appeared as a guest on a TV show?Obscurasky (talk) 07:45, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
 * You have a point ... it is recentism after all ... she's probably done many many interviews like that over the years. It could get really unwieldy, really fast, if we try to mention them all. Any other comments? Graham 87 15:48, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
 * For many pop musicians/ celebrities this would be true. But Armatrading does so few interviews that I think it's notable by virtue of its rarity. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:30, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

Grammar/Colloquialisms
I made the comment below, please excuse me for not logging in before signing it. Anyway, I found some things in the first paragraph of the body that I thought needed to be changed, and so I did so. I wanted to review them with everyone, and confirm that I had done the right thing.

Here is the segment in question as it originally appeared: "She began writing lyrics and music at the age of 14. Her first job was at Rabone Chesterman (makers of fine engineering tools), in Hockley, Birmingham. She was sacked from this job because she insisted on bringing her guitar to work and playing during tea breaks." And then, my edits.

1)I changed "Rabone Chesterman (makers of fine engineering tools)" to "Rabone Chesterman, an engineering tool manufacturer." The use of "fine" in the description seemed like an advertisement for the company, and is, at best, opinion.  Opinion has no role here. 2)I changed "sacked" to "released." This one is a no-brainer. Sacked is a colloquialism, they do not belong in an encyclopedia. 3)"because she insisted on..." I converted to "because of her insistence on..." This is just a matter of opinion, I think.  To me, the latter sounds better than the former, but is still not very good.  I'd appreciate input on how to repair this sentece. Sorry if I'm clogging up the board, but I hope you all understand where I'm coming from. Input would be appreciated greatly. Thanks -  "Yes...  It's Raining " 04:10, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

"Sacked" is a perfectly good expression - it means, basically, being told to leave. "Released" is a euphemism, amd implies she was imprisoned there. You could say she was asked to resign, assuming that was the case, but if the boss told her to go, then she wasn't released, she got the sack. G7mzh (talk) 22:15, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

Cover versions
It's not entirely true that she has not sung any cover versions. She sang a version of 'Moondance' by Van Morrison. I don't have a reference but I saw her do it live. She is a big Van Morrison fan. This might be her only cover version tho.  Smokey TheCat  15:12, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
 * The reference given for the statement is Ms. Armatrading's website. I see nothing anywhere on her website that makes the claim that she's never performed a cover in her career. I think the fact that there's no substantion of the claim made is sufficient to remove it, even if you don't have a reference for your claim. Joefromrandb (talk) 05:07, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
 * For what it's worth, while looking for something else I found her 1988 set list, which indeed says that she performed "Moondance" and states that she's never recorded a cover version in the studio. The set lists are a recent addition to her website. Graham 87 01:47, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

Rockpalast night 1980; DVD
In 1980 she was one of the acts of the 6th Rockpalast Nacht (night), see here. According to the German wiki, there's a DVD of that concert. Rockpalast nights were quite big in those days, being broadcast live on German television (WDR), which could be watched in most of the neighboring countries. (Belgium, Netherlands, France, Luxemburg, Switzerland, ..). Ssscienccce (talk) 18:43, 2 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks for pointing this out; I've added it. Graham 87 14:21, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

Politics?
There is absolutely no mention of JA's politics. She infamously and controversially supported Margaret Thatcher. Other musicians political opinions feature in their articles and I do not think JA should be excluded. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.26.108.82 (talk) 23:02, 9 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I've heard about this, but I haven't been able to find a reliable source for it ... not that I've been looking very hard, and the Internet isn't really the best place to search anyway. But her politics isn't really an important part of herartistry, as it is for say, Bob Dylan and the Sex Pistols, or even somebody like Mick Hucknall who has been associated with the Labour Party. So I'm not sure how prominently it should be mentioned, if at all. Graham 87 10:33, 10 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Hmm. I read an interview in which JA talked about the need to help other people less fortunate in society, so I would hesitate to put her down as a Thatcherite. I will try to locate the interview. Perhaps her 'support' for Thatcher was due, in part at least, to the fact that Thatcher was a woman - JAs album Square the Circle talks about women ruling the world so maybe she went through a pro-woman phase that made it look like she supported Thatcher. Interestingly, on 4 May 2015, just before the UK general election on her Twitter feed, JA posted a link to the Labour Party, highlighting a quote about "fairness, equality and social justice". There was no comment on her post,but I would take that as an indication that she was supportive of the Labour Party - in 2015 at any rate. ZakLightfoot (talk) 11:23, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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I have just modified 4 external links on Joan Armatrading. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110130174442/http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/recaps/ to http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/recaps/
 * Added tag to http://www.joanarmatrading.com/index.php/component/k2/item/776-joan-s-quote-for-2014-her-last-major-tour
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120920023635/http://limerickpost.ie/index.php/navigation-mainmenu-30/entertainment/4932-joan-armatrading-legendary-singer-songwriter-and-guitarist.html to http://www.limerickpost.ie/index.php/navigation-mainmenu-30/entertainment/4932-joan-armatrading-legendary-singer-songwriter-and-guitarist.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150228042011/http://www.artofpeacefoundation.org/index.php?page=songs to http://www.artofpeacefoundation.org/index.php?page=songs
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131029192312/http://www.joanarmatrading.com/biog/awards.html to http://www.joanarmatrading.com/biog/awards.html

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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 02:08, 26 November 2017 (UTC)

Wrong photo
The photo captioned "Armatrading performing in Dublin, Ireland, 7 December 2005" is clearly from the same (1970s) gig as one captioned "Armatrading in concert in the early 1970s". Jonur (talk) 10:16, 9 April 2018 (UTC)


 * Yes, the original flickr source is here. Looks like the upload date has been mistakenly used? Not sure about the venue. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:24, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

I have posted a message on Flickr asking the photographer to confirm location and date. Jonur (talk) 11:46, 9 April 2018 (UTC)


 * Well spotted, Jonur and thanks for the rapid correction! Martinevans123 (talk) 12:20, 10 April 2018 (UTC)

Albums
The lead section states: "Armatrading has released 19 studio albums, as well as several live albums and compilations." The 25 albums in the Albums table in the Discography section are not split between studio and live (and one is an EP); there are 5 compilation albums listed in a separate table. Moreover discogs, again without a studio/ live split, lists a total of 33 albums and 23 compilations, i.e. a grand total of 56. Maybe an update, of both discography tables and the lead section, is required? Note: discogs also lists 72 singles and EPs, while the article here lists 30. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:54, 10 June 2019 (UTC)
 * The 19 studio albums figure is correct, not counting the live albums, How Cruel (which is an EP) and the Shakespeare thing (which ... I don't know what to call it). As for Discogs, it lists many BBC transcription releases of live albums and has some duplicates. Graham 87 01:59, 11 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks for confirming. Perhaps the Discography section be given some explicit sources. What about the total number of singles? Many thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 06:13, 11 June 2019 (UTC)
 * I don't know about those. Discogs doesn't have the best rep with the albums WikiProject though. Graham 87 14:37, 11 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes, thanks Graham, I am well aware of that. Personally, I've found it about 99.5% accurate. But it can be used just to search for other better source, of course. More than double the number of singles listed here looked like quite a large discrepancy to me. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:47, 11 June 2019 (UTC)

Order of the British Empire
If she is a Member of the Order of the British Empire, doesn't that make her a dame? Wolf O&#39;Donnel (talk) 20:59, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Nope, she's one step below that (search for DBE). Graham 87 02:32, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Suggestion about B-sides
I noticed that a lot of non-album B-sides were added recently, and that the singles table has been greatly updated (both appreciated efforts). But I noticed that non-album B-sides were eliminated, presumably in accordance with Wikipedia policy not encouraging the mentioning of B-sides. However, to my way of seeing it, I think the reasoning behind that policy is to not bog down the article with songs listed on other pages (i.e. the single in question's page). But for all the singles without pages, the B-sides are now just gone. So I would suggest either a) we bring the non-album B-sides back for singles that don't have their own Wikipedia page, or b) we create a table for B-sides and/or integrate B-sides into the "Other appearances" table. Let me know if you agree. SweetTaylorJames (talk) 04:55, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

British? English?
Britannica describes her as a "British singer-songwriter, the first Black woman in the United Kingdom to make an impact performing her own compositions". Would "Kittitian-British singer-songwriter and guitarist" be better here? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:42, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Makes sense to me, but I for one don't mind either way. Graham 87 14:49, 9 June 2022 (UTC)