Talk:Joan of France, Duchess of Berry

Untitled
There is documentation that says that Joan was married at age nine 1473. Other information indicates that the marriage was solemnized Sept. 8, 1476 when she was 12. She became Duchess concort of Orleans in 1473 as a result of her marriage to Louis XII for political gain and later, 1476 the marriage was announced to the world via the church.

I am still seeking verification of the two dates but strongly believe they are accurate and should probably be included in the article. Meanwhile I'll keep looking. Daytrivia 01:16, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Jeanne married Louis at the same time her elder sister Anne married Pierre de Beaujeu. Anne was eleven and Jeanne was nine.It was a double-ceremony.jeanne (talk) 14:05, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

She dutifully stepped aside? She insisted vigourously that there was nothing wrong with her, and that the marriage had indeed been consummated! Michaelsanders 23:56, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Please source her canonisation. Michaelsanders 10:46, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

POV
This text begins the last paragraph: "Had the Pope been a neutral party, Jeanne would likely have won, for Louis' case was exceedingly weak. Unfortunately for the Queen, Pope Alexander VI was committed for political reasons to grant the divorce, and accordingly he ruled against the Queen, granting the annulment. " It seems to me to be taking a "stand" on an issue, which to me looks like taking a POV. I sincerely hope someone can revise it to more neutral phrasing. Otherwise, it might need to be taken out completely. John Carter 14:29, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
 * In what sense is it PoV? The King is historically considered to have had no good grounds for annulment: Alexander only gave him a divorce because he wanted support from Louis in his Italian schemes, and wanted Louis' assistance in arranging a marriage and future for the Pope's son, Cesare. Michael Sanders 15:00, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
 * The wording in unneutral like "Unfortunately".--The Emperor&#39;s New Spy (talk) 19:46, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

Consanguinity
"Described as 'one of the seamiest lawsuits of the age',[1] Louis did not, as might be expected, argue the marriage to be void due to consanguinity (the general excuse for the dissolution of a marriage at that time): though he could produce witnesses to claim that the two were closely related due to various linking marriages, there was no documentary proof, merely the opinions of courtiers."

I don't understand this. Louis and Jeanne were second cousins once removed. How could there not be documentary proof of this? Her father was Louis XI, which was a matter of public record. And that Louis XI and Louis XII had both become king would have proved their common descent from Charles V. How could he not claim consanguinity? How could this be a mere matter of "opinions of courtiers"? Does this make any sense at all? john k (talk) 01:28, 23 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't understand this either; they were both great-grandchildren of Chatles V - and therefore 2nd cousins. That seems pretty straightforward to me and would have been a clear matter of record at that time.


 * The more likely reason Louis XII did not use consanguinity as his basis for annulment were his plans to marry Anne of Brittany. Anne was a great-great-granddaughter of Charles V, and thus Louis' and Joan's 2nd cousin once removed. It's awkward to annul one cousin-wife to marry another cousin-wife!  History Lunatic (talk) 00:18, 19 January 2013 (UTC)History Lunatic

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