Talk:Joaquín "El Chapo" Guzmán

Occupation should be title
Just FYI. Also according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Eyer#Overt_whitewashing_and_lying this user, he is a businessman, not a criminal. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 167.60.186.231 (talk) 04:30, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 August 2018
Add to the "=== Television ===" section of the article this:

There is also an american telenovela (a latino style soap-opera) called "the Lord of the skies" (El Señor de los Cielos, in spanish), based in the life of mexican drug lord Amado Carrillo, that contains a character based in "el chapo guzman", called "el chema". Also the sopa-opera's production company (Telemundo) made a stand alone spin-off series about this "Chema" character. 189.223.17.47 (talk) 00:38, 24 August 2018 (UTC)


 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: It's not clear how much of these characters are based off of the subject.   spintendo   07:50, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

Trial: verdict soon
Defense presented their only witness today for about 30 minutes. Jury deliberation may begin Friday or Monday and we may have a sentence next week (and El Chapo might be booking his one-way ticket to Florence, Colorado). Stay tuned. MX ( ✉  •  ✎  ) 17:17, 29 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Update: Verdict confirmed. Jury coming out of courtroom. Expecting news to explode very soon. MX ( ✉  •  ✎  ) 17:25, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 February 2019
Guzmán was first captured in 1993 in Guatemala and was extradited and sentenced to 20 years in prison in Mexico for murder and drug trafficking. He bribed prison guards and escaped from a federal maximum-security prison in 2001. He was wanted by the governments of Mexico and the United States and by INTERPOL. The U.S. offered a $5 million reward for information leading to his capture, and the Mexican government offered a reward of 60 million pesos (approximately $3.8 million). He was arrested a second time in Mexico on 22 February 2014, found inside a fourth-floor condominium in Mazatlán, Sinaloa, and was captured without any gunshots. Guzmán escaped again in July 2015 through a 1.5 km tunnel that led to a construction site. He was recaptured by Mexican marines and Federal Police following a shoot-out on 8 January 2016. He was extradited to the United States on 19 January 2017 to face criminal charges related to his leadership of the Sinaloa Cartel.

El Chapo has been found guilty.

Guzmán was first captured in 1993 in Guatemala and was extradited and sentenced to 20 years in prison in Mexico for murder and drug trafficking. He bribed prison guards and escaped from a federal maximum-security prison in 2001. He was wanted by the governments of Mexico and the United States and by INTERPOL. The U.S. offered a $5 million reward for information leading to his capture, and the Mexican government offered a reward of 60 million pesos (approximately $3.8 million). He was arrested a second time in Mexico on 22 February 2014, found inside a fourth-floor condominium in Mazatlán, Sinaloa, and was captured without any gunshots. Guzmán escaped again in July 2015 through a 1.5 km tunnel that led to a construction site. He was recaptured by Mexican marines and Federal Police following a shoot-out on 8 January 2016. He was extradited to the United States on 19 January 2017 to face criminal charges related to his leadership of the Sinaloa Cartel. On February 12, 2019, Guzmán, was convicted by a federal jury in Brooklyn on all 10 charges he faced. 2601:447:4101:5780:2522:498E:B3FD:9929 (talk) 17:46, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

Thank you.2601:447:4101:5780:25ED:47A7:2495:C754 (talk) 17:52, 12 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. DannyS712 (talk) 20:39, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

Verdict
El Chapo trial verdict: Joaquin Guzman found guilty and convicted on all counts -. 73.158.103.169 (talk) 19:06, 12 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes, thank you. We've updated the article. Most of the info regarding his case is found at United States of America v. Joaquín Guzmán Loera. MX ( ✉  •  ✎  ) 19:08, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

Nickname Translation
The article claims that "El Chapo" translates as "The Shorty". In fact, however, a better translation would be simply "Shorty". Spanish typically tacks on an "El" ("The") as a prefix even for nicknames, but in English a definite article is definitely not used. Could an established editor please review and correct? Thanks.... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:C445:869:50E5:91A8:6BA6:EEC3 (talk) 23:48, 12 February 2019 (UTC)
 * ✅ Yes, I agree. This was changed fairly recently without concensus. Though technically correct, it reads much better now. Thank you. MX ( ✉  •  ✎  ) 01:43, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

Requested move 13 February 2019

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: Not moved: consensus appears to be against a move at this time. (closed by non-admin page mover)  SITH   (talk)   23:17, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

Joaquín "El Chapo" Guzmán → El Chapo – The current title breaks naming conventions, and he is commonly known as El Chapo. See WP:COMMONNAME and WP:NICKNAME. If anybody has alternate proposals, we can discuss those as well Tærkast  (Discuss) 19:27, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: previous discussion at Talk:Joaquín "El Chapo" Guzmán/Archive 1. Dekimasu よ! 19:39, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
 * 'Noted - Thanks, I've looked over that. That discussion was more or less two years ago, not particularly extensive, and also the reason I stated we can discuss alternative proposals. The current title breaks convention, and ideally shouldn't be used.-- Tærkast (Discuss) 19:45, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Let's use his real name (as in United States of America v. Joaquín Guzmán Loera). In other words I support a move to Joaquín Guzmán Loera. -SusanLesch (talk) 20:08, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Suport per WP:COMMONNAME Felicia (talk) 20:16, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Oppose. This current title is widely known and used. There are other Chapos too, so this is just fine. I also oppose a move to "Joaquín Guzmán Loera", since that would pretty much make him unrecognizable to most readers. MX ( ✉  •  ✎  ) 20:25, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Comment - So people are really fine with the current awkward title which breaks conventions? Doesn't seem like people want to compromise either or are willing to offer alternative proposals.-- Tærkast (Discuss) 20:31, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
 * A search of Joaquín "El Chapo" Guzmán on Google returns 17.5 million hits, whereas El Chapo returns 157 million. A Google Book search for Joaquín "El Chapo" Guzmán returns 5,690 results, whereas El Chapo returns 39,000. Interestingly, the Google Search for just his name Joaquin Guzman returns 217,000 results.-- Tærkast (Discuss) 20:35, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
 * It is not against convention. See WP:TITLESPECIALCHARACTERS. Plus, we have precedent for our current title with "Weird Al" Yankovic. MX ( ✉  •  ✎  ) 20:44, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Are Google hits the only thing we should go by? Because if yes, you might have a case. But given that fact that Chapo is also a reference to other drug lords (like Chapo Isidro) and other people, I think it's safe to keep it as is. I will check back again when other people comment here and reconsider. MX ( ✉  •  ✎  ) 20:44, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Except "Weird Al" is different to El Chapo, media sources usually refer to him "also known as El Chapo". More media sources use El Chapo to refer to Guzman than others, it's about the common name.-- Tærkast (Discuss) 21:07, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Show me one media source that only refers to him as El Chapo and gives no mention to "Joaquín" or "Guzmán". I'm asking because I know the media uses "El Chapo" on its headlines because its shorter, but once you read their articles they refer to him by his name too. MX ( ✉  •  ✎  ) 21:32, 13 February 2019 (UTC)


 * Oppose. This is too frivolous a name. He is actually widely known exactly as Joaquín "El Chapo" Guzmán. Obviously "El Chapo" will redirect to that title. I also think there's some validity (though obviously not a deciding factor) in seeing how the Spanish-langugage Wikipedia handles it. They don't use "El Chapo" in the article title at all, FWIW. Moncrief (talk) 21:01, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Widely known exactly? Did you look at the search results? In addition, it is interesting to note that many other requested moves usually have people suggesting alternative proposels in the form of "I oppose a move to this title, but support a move to." I doubt that's going to happen here. It would seem that there is a consensus to rather do nothing than move it to a more acceptable title, even if, as there has been, suggestions not to include the nickname at all.-- Tærkast (Discuss) 21:07, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
 * "El Chapo" is Mexican slang for "the short one" or "Shorty," so obviously it's going to get more Google hits, as it's also used in other contexts. I'm talking about his common-name usage in reputable media articles, where he is never referred to simply as "El Chapo" in the way that people like Cher or Madonna are. He is referred to in New York Times articles (for example) by both his given name and nickname, usually simultaneously at first reference. Moncrief (talk) 21:13, 13 February 2019 (UTC)


 * Support per WP:COMMONNAME. This is the English Wikipedia and "El Chapo" is how he is commonly referred to by most English speakers. Rreagan007 (talk) 21:15, 13 February 2019 (UTC)


 * Oppose plain El Chapo, since reliable sources usually include his name too. The current title is ok, and it's not exactly a violation since El Chapo isn't a hypocorism (see articles like Donald "Duck" Dunn, Evelyn "Champagne" King, and Robert "Mutt" Lange for other examples) but I wouldn't really be opposed to Joaquín Guzmán if people want the nickname dropped. "Loera" is unnecessary, since second surnames are typically ignored per Spanish customs and it isn't usually used by sources. Nohomersryan (talk) 21:22, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Keeping just "Joaquín Guzmán" would be a terrible idea. Most people wouldn't know who the hell that person is without the nickname. The real question here is if we should keep the title as is or just move to El Chapo. Removing the nickname is out of the question. MX ( ✉  •  ✎  ) 21:26, 13 February 2019 (UTC)


 * Oppose - His name precedes the nickname. In the past, when the title issue was bought up, the consensus was to blend is name+nickname as it stands today: Joaquín "El Chapo" Guzmán. Rowan Forest (talk) 22:17, 13 February 2019 (UTC)


 * Oppose I honestly think it is unnecessary, because "El Chapo" is already a redirect to Joaquín "El Chapo" Guzmán, and I have also seen articles with the first name, then nickname in quotation marks, then the last name. From, TheSmartPersonUS1 (TSPUS1) (talk) 22:49, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Mild support When I first saw that there was a discussion for moving this page to El Chapo, I initially was completely for the idea. I had never heard him referred to by his full name in, for example, headlines. Usually media will say his full name in the first or second paragraph, but simply use El Chapo in the headline. However, after reading the other arguments here, it does seem a bit too vague. But re-reading WP:COMMONNAME, it does seem that El Chapo on its own satisfies the 5 principles (though perhaps not precision fully) much better than the current title. Therefore, I mildly support this idea.  M r A urelius R Talk!  01:50, 14 February 2019 (UTC)


 * Oppose per WP:TONE and User:MX's comments above. —  AjaxSmack  02:58, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Oppose – "El Chapo" is ambiguous, and it's better to use his name. Dicklyon (talk) 04:45, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Based on several of the comments above, simply "El Chapo" would leave too much ambiguity (although it has admittedly redirected to the article in question since January 2017). For the time being "Joaquín Guzmán" or "Joaquín Guzmán Loera" appear not to be as widely known by people who might read the English Wikipedia. –Ntmamgtw (talk) 18:16, 14 February 2019 (UTC)


 * Oppose If you see other article with nicknames used, but the famous person has their full name and nickname in these " things. 2602:306:8BB9:4E20:F5FC:450A:3813:66B2 (talk) 03:31, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Oppose per rationales given by Moncrief and MX. ╠╣uw [ talk ]  11:15, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Oppose: even though "El Chapo" is commonly used, "Joaquín Guzmán" is common as well, and using solely the nickname as title lowers the professional quality of the article, and thus Wikipedia as a whole. Formality should be encouraged. Consensus trumps dogmatic adherence to rules (remember, Wikipedia has no firm rules). --Animalparty! (talk) 21:41, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Comment. What would be wrong with ? Same as "Weird Al", and supported by sources. w umbolo   ^^^  22:39, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Support Wumbolo's suggestion of . COMMON and specific.E.M.Gregory (talk) 20:27, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Strong Support per WP:COMMONNAME and WP:PRIMARYTOPIC (he is best known/recognized as El Chapo by English speakers and is clearly the primary topic for "El Chapo", so the ambiguous issue is moot. The other uses of "El Chapo" are obscure. In fact, El Chapo already redirects here, so the community has already established this El Chapo is the primary topic. --В²C ☎ 21:12, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
 * So is the current title, Joaquín "El Chapo" Guzmán, what he is best known by. Please find one source where he is not referred to by his first/last name as well, and only as El Chapo. El Chapo is short, so you'll see it in the headlines. But every source will mention his name. Heck, see the U.S. government's official press release after his conviction: Joaquin 'El Chapo’ Guzman, Sinaloa Cartel Leader, Convicted of Running a Continuing Criminal Enterprise and Other Drug-Related Charges. MX ( ✉  •  ✎  ) 21:58, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
 * I don't deny your claim. Just saying "El Chapo" is MORE commonly used to refer to him than is "Joaquín "El Chapo" Guzmán".  --В²C ☎ 23:10, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
 * So is "The US" over the "United States". Perhaps we should change the name of that article too. Or maybe we can agree that "El Chapo" has more results because it means a lot of other things besides than the man in question. MX ( ✉  •  ✎  ) 23:16, 20 February 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Semi-protected edit request on 25 February 2021
El Chapo's Wife, Emma Coronel Aispiro was arrested on 23 Feb, 2021 https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/wife-of-mexican-drug-lord-el-chapo-arrested-in-us-2376444 2405:201:A805:205E:A136:5991:EA07:1BC9 (talk) 13:37, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
 * ❌. Arrested on "Monday", which is the 22nd: . ◢  Ganbaruby!   (Say hi!) 02:11, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

is Guzman jewish?
https://www.jta.org/2016/01/13/culture/el-chapos-wears-jewish-fashion-designers-and-you-can-too https://www.jpost.com/international/el-chapos-wife-wears-star-of-david-necklace-to-court-576817 Jfahhe (talk) 02:58, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

Height
The Telegraph is considered a reliable source, and we don't remove reliably sourced material just because we find it hard to believe. See WP:V, WP:RS, and WP:OR. If you have another source that gives a different number for his height, feel free to cite it. GA-RT-22 (talk) 19:48, 5 January 2023 (UTC)