Talk:Joe Biden/Archive 6

Archiving
I have changed the archive parameter "minthreadsleft" from 0 to 4 – that is used on most other articles. User:MiszaBot/Archive HowTo states, "The minimum number of threads that should be left on a page (to prevent pages from getting completely harvested)." MB298 (talk) 01:24, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

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 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20110605124453/http://www.newsday.com/news/politics/wire/sns-ap-us-biden-commencement,0,5937836.story to http://www.newsday.com/news/politics/wire/sns-ap-us-biden-commencement,0,5937836.story

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External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090330124737/http://www.acuratings.org:80/2008senate.htm to http://www.acuratings.org/2008senate.htm

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Looking for citation for religion in infobox
Concerning religion in infoboxes (religion in the body of the article has different rules):

From WP:BLPCAT: "Categories regarding religious beliefs (or lack of such) should not be used unless the subject has publicly self-identified with the belief or orientation in question, and the subject's beliefs are relevant to their public life or notability, according to reliable published sources" ... "These principles apply equally to lists, navigation templates, and Infobox statements".

From WP:CAT/R: "Categories regarding religious beliefs or lack of such beliefs of a living person should not be used unless the subject has publicly self-identified with the belief in question (see WP:BLPCAT), either through direct speech or through actions like serving in an official clerical position for the religion."

Per WP:LOCALCON, a local consensus on an article talk page can not override the overwhelming (75% to 25%) consensus at Template talk:Infobox/Archive 11 that nonreligions cannot be listed in the religion entry of any infobox.

Is there proof that Biden self-identifies and is a practicing Roman Catholic? Sir Joseph (talk) 15:09, 4 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Read the article before you widen your crusade.--TMCk (talk) 17:51, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I did, and it furthers my question. He was criticized by the Church, and it doesn't say anywhere, that I found, that he practices his religion. Sir Joseph (talk) 17:54, 4 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Then you don't read English and are at the wrong place to start with.--TMCk (talk) 18:07, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Oh, for heaven's sake, Sir Joseph! Biden's Catholicism is well established.   How many times does he have to say it?  --MelanieN (talk) 19:38, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Those links I didn't see in the article. Now that I see those articles I am fine with it. Sir Joseph (talk) 20:07, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

Appearance on SVU
I was hoping someone would add that Biden would appear on SVU on September 28? Source Callmemirela  🍁  &#123;Talk&#125;   &#9809;  20:28, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2008/aug/22/biden-speaks-_-and-speaks-_-his-own-mind/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20151013133013/http://www.denverpost.com/environment/ci_26568257/vice-president-biden-denver-discuss-domestic-violence-issues to http://www.denverpost.com/environment/ci_26568257/vice-president-biden-denver-discuss-domestic-violence-issues
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://philly.metro.us/metro/local/article/For_Widener_Law_students_a_teacher_aims_high/13457.html
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.delcotimes.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=20094884&amp;BRD=1675&amp;PAG=461&amp;dept_id=18171&amp;rfi=6
 * Corrected formatting/usage for https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbOa989IRYw
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.nationaljournal.com/conventions/co_20080825_3122.php
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.acuratings.org:80/2008senate.htm
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Add a pop culture section
Can someone add a pop culture section? --Madsies819 (talk) 18:01, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

Starting a list of notable pop culture references to mention:
 * Leslie Knope recurring joke on Parks & Rec: http://www.etonline.com/tv/154190_parks_and_rec_boss_explains_recurring_joe_biden_joke/
 * guest appearance on Law & Order SVU: http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/entertainthis/2016/09/29/joe-biden-law--order-svu-cameo/91261270/
 * post-2016 presidential election meme: http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2016/11/joe-biden-a-meme-for-all-seasons/507623/

Semi-protected edit request on 24 November 2016
Popular culture

Joe Biden is becoming increasingly popular on social media, through memes (captioned photographs) with Joe and Barack Obama. Often depicting him as comical sidekick to Obama or with somewhat reluctance to transition Donald Trump to presidency. Scremig (talk) 16:32, 24 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. KGirlTrucker81huh? what I'm been doing 18:53, 24 November 2016 (UTC)

Refusal to rule out running
I was recently reverted by someone who said that an off the cuff remark about running for President does not merit mention. That is not the important part, Biden refused to rule out running, and thus this will lead to speculation about being a potential candidate for President, which merits mention. The remark was covered across every mainstream media source, and is consistent with the United States presidential election, 2020 article, where candidates who refuse to rule out running will all eventually be sorted into the respective section, with Biden currently listed as "Candidates who have publicly expressed interest." Calibrador (talk) 08:28, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Where this might fit in is as part of a closing paragraph to the section on his vice-presidency, or at the end of the 2016 Campaign section following a sentence or to on his response to Clinton's loss. Drdpw (talk) 11:32, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
 * It's currently in a section designated for post-vice presidential activities already. Calibrador (talk) 11:34, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes, after I reverted your edit and you started this conversation about the subject and then reverted me for a second time. That's not constructive interaction. Please read WP:BRD. Drdpw (talk) 11:48, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
 * No,, if you review the edit history, you'll see you reverted me and removed both mentions in both the lead and the article body. Calibrador (talk) 00:21, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 December 2016
Scheduled to be succeeded by: Mike Pence Dbwarrak (talk) 01:34, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: as you have not cited reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 09:53, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

| religion = in info box
Hi,

The |religion parameter is not included in the infobox template; should this not be added? Biden is a well-documented Roman Catholic. — Lasse Havelund (p · t · c) 13:48, 12 December 2016 (UTC)
 * @Lasse_Havelund Nope. Per consensus in this RFC WP:Village pump (policy)/Archive 126#RfC: Religion in biographical infoboxes. Bluesphere  14:24, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 January 2017
Please add Presidential Medal of Freedom in the 'Awards and honors' section (received today). 2606:A000:4C0C:E200:C03A:9D20:31EF:82F7 (talk) 21:11, 12 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done Sir Joseph (talk) 21:20, 12 January 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 January 2017
If you mentioned br cancer..that's totally wrong..you can check and if it is done by r gpln or related to her god will punish the person severly Smani33333 (talk) 16:14, 20 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. DRAGON BOOSTER   ★  16:53, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 January 2017
He is now former Vice President. Ofishally (talk) 16:57, 20 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Pictogram voting wait.svg Already done DRAGON BOOSTER   ★  17:47, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

Medal of Freedom Post-Nominal
Is there a source that the Presidential Medal of Freedom has a post-nominal (MF)? If not, it should not be above Joe's portrait as there are many recipients of the award whose pages would need to be edited. Snakeskinsam 21:27, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
 * I removed it. I could not find any support for this designation. --MelanieN (talk) 21:37, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
 * I assume the "MF" means the same thing that it does on Jules Winnfield's wallet? – Muboshgu (talk) 21:46, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
 * It certainly has more than one meaning. --MelanieN (talk) 21:49, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

Protection
We may have to protect this article until Noon EST, 20 January 2017. Many may not realize that that's when Pence succeeds Biden. GoodDay (talk) 03:37, 20 January 2017 (UTC)
 * We don't protect pre-emptively, but we should keep an eye on this page tomorrow. and protect it if there gets to be vandalism or addition of inappropriate information. --MelanieN (talk) 03:55, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

Fixed reference. Ignore that other comment.

Akiva.avraham (talk) 14:24, 18 February 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 April 2017
There is a slight grammatical error in the list of honorary degrees that Joe Biden has received. The sentence currently reads:

Biden has received honorary degrees from the University of Scranton (1976),[355] Saint Joseph's University (1981),[356] Widener University School of Law (2000),[141] Emerson College (2003),[357] his alma mater the University of Delaware (2004),[358] Suffolk University Law School (2005),[359] and his other alma mater Syracuse University (2009).[360] Trinity College, Dublin (2016) [361]

As you can see, Trinity College was added after Syracuse university for the sake of preserving chronological order, but the sentence was not modified to be grammatically correct. I propose editing the sentence to read:

Biden has received honorary degrees from the University of Scranton (1976),[355] Saint Joseph's University (1981),[356] Widener University School of Law (2000),[141] Emerson College (2003),[357] his alma mater the University of Delaware (2004),[358] Suffolk University Law School (2005),[359] his other alma mater Syracuse University (2009),[360] and Trinity College, Dublin (2016). [361]

--Vendetta2115 (talk) 06:18, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.cnbc.com/id/41870549
 * Corrected formatting/usage for https://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/docs/sexual_assault_report_1-21-14.pdf
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.acuratings.org/2008senate.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100430225626/http://www.littleleague.org/learn/museum/hallofexcellence.htm to http://www.littleleague.org/learn/museum/hallofexcellence.htm

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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110728173845/http://www.westutter.org/pdfs/Joe_Biden-PublicGreeting_NationalStutteringAssoc_7.1.09.pdf to http://www.westutter.org/pdfs/Joe_Biden-PublicGreeting_NationalStutteringAssoc_7.1.09.pdf
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Tie breaking votes in the Senate
The article should mention that Biden never had an opportunity to cast a tie-breaking vote while VP - and is the longest serving Vice President never to have to cast such a vote in his role as President of the Senate. 2602:301:770E:EFC0:A081:BC5F:32A9:CCA (talk) 06:14, 6 August 2017 (UTC)

Distinctions
In 2016 Joe Biden received the Orden de Boyacá from colombian president Juan Manuel Santos — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.143.105.53 (talk) 17:45, 22 August 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130517105929/http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=%2F20071201%2FOPINION%2F712010307&template=single to http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=%2F20071201%2FOPINION%2F712010307&template=single
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110319050955/http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2011/03/amtrak-joe-biden-gets-his-own-train-station.html to http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2011/03/amtrak-joe-biden-gets-his-own-train-station.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081004214751/http://philly.metro.us/metro/local/article/For_Widener_Law_students_a_teacher_aims_high/13457.html to http://philly.metro.us/metro/local/article/For_Widener_Law_students_a_teacher_aims_high/13457.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081005022401/http://www.ny1.com/content/features/86538/senate-passes-economic-rescue-package/Default.aspx to http://www.ny1.com/content/features/86538/senate-passes-economic-rescue-package/Default.aspx
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External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150904124648/http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/joe-biden%E2%80%99s-lasting-advice-%E2%80%98reality-has-a-way-of-intruding%E2%80%99/ar-BBksQ13?ocid=wispr to http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/joe-biden%E2%80%99s-lasting-advice-%E2%80%98reality-has-a-way-of-intruding%E2%80%99/ar-BBksQ13?ocid=wispr
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130719151247/http://www.thetakeaway.org/2009/apr/23/amtrak-joes-new-portfolio/ to http://www.thetakeaway.org/2009/apr/23/amtrak-joes-new-portfolio/
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External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080724011704/http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2007/01/08/biden/ to http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2007/01/08/biden/
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Allegations of sexual harassment
The article should include the popular accusations about Joe Biden's sexual harassment and inappropriate touching of children possibly in the lead section. (https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/compost/wp/2015/02/18/what-are-we-going-to-do-about-creepy-uncle-joe-biden/?utm_term=.a29ef1a3a5fa)(gnanvit (talk) 04:45, 27 April 2018 (UTC))
 * No. Popular accusations of his sexual harassment? Where is there one accusation of sexual harassment? Also a blogpost comedy section from WP isn't a source that will be used to make a claim such as this. WikiVirus  C (talk) 16:10, 24 November 2017 (UTC)

Heading titled "Behavior around children"
I reverted your edit to Joe Biden because it is POV-pushing. The whole premise of the section you added was based on this article from the Washington Post] -- while the Post is a reliable source, the article you pulled was a humor column that really carries no weight for a biography on a living person. Even the title of the section ("Behavior around children") was ridiculously non-NPOV, as none of the sources describe Biden's behavior around children. Please do not make such insinuations in biographies, as they are not only disruptive but also pretty blatant violations of Wikipedia's policies on biographies of living persons and NPOV. Thank you. Aoi (青い) (talk) 02:41, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
 * I cited SEVERAL mainstream news articles, including VICE and Huffington post that discuss the fears that his creepy behavior around children makes him an unsuitable candidate. Can you explain, why do you feel comfortable reverting my changes without first discussing them? --Kingdamian1 (talk) 02:50, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Please read WP:BRD. Aoi (青い) (talk) 02:51, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
 * I will try to repeat my question. I cited several mainstream articles, that OUTSIDE of the Washington Post discuss the fears that Biden's creepy behavior could cost him the 2020 elections. Why do you revert this instead of editing it to cut out the alleged NPOV? --Kingdamian1 (talk) 02:53, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
 * I moved this discussion to the Joe Biden talk page in case other editors want to weigh in.
 * To answer your specific question, I believe the remainder of the edit fails WP:UNDUE by giving undue weight to material that really isn't newsworthy or notable. Further, the articles you provided as sources are editorials and op-eds, which I believe do not hold enough weight by themselves to be mentioned in this BLP. This is only my opinion; if you think I am wrong, you are free to rework what you wrote and try to get consensus to add it into the article. Aoi (青い) (talk) 03:16, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
 * I changed the articles heading, and indicated that Washington Post nickname was humorous. Wikipedia uses Vice News and Huffington Post as sources often. I do think that this edit is necessary. Well, it should at least, be discussed! --Kingdamian1 (talk) 03:20, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you for changing the heading. I still believe this whole section is gives WP:UNDUE weight to editorials and opinion pieces, and I still don't believe these sources, as editorials, carry enough weight for inclusion here. However, I do not want to get into an edit war over this and will wait for other editors to weigh in. Thanks, Aoi (青い) (talk) 03:27, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

I've removed it; changing the heading isn't nearly sufficient. It reads like it is repeating political attacks in Wikipedia's voice, and may be a BLP violation. power~enwiki ( π, ν ) 03:33, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
 * I COMPLETELY disagree with you removing it! I cited mainstream news articles that discuss the fears that his creepy behavior might cost him the elections... Huffington post and Vice, BOTH OF THESE are used by wikipedia. Additionally, this theme is very popular and even the beloved 45th president's son referred to Mr.Biden as "Creepy Joe"... It should be mentioned! --Kingdamian1 (talk) 03:40, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
 * No way. There is nothing neutral about including these opinion pieces and their speculation. – Muboshgu (talk) 03:51, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
 * here is Wikipedia doing EXACTLY that... Citing New York Times' writer's opinion on Trump's Racial views. Please, be consistent, liberals! --Kingdamian1 (talk) 03:57, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Address issues with that page on that talk page. We're not adding a section here speculating about "Uncle Joe" being creepy. – Muboshgu (talk) 03:59, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
 * When 3 mainstream news articles (Washington Post, Huffington Post, and VICE) report on this behavior, with 2 of them mentioning it as possibly affecting his potential 2020 run, I think it is significant. --Kingdamian1 (talk) 04:01, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Not every article from a "mainstream" publisher is "mainstream". Case in point: Welcome to Evesplaining, politics writer Eve Peyser's column about why everyone else is wrong and she's right. We can comment on his role in the 1994 Violent Crime Control Act, the Anita Hill testimony, and his plagiarism. We're not going to insinuate that he's "creepy" around women and kids. – Muboshgu (talk) 04:15, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
 * You are going to deny the facts? I brought 3 independent Mainstream sources. Did all of them conspire to shatter the image of your hero? --Kingdamian1 (talk) 04:25, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
 * I just pointed out real negative things about Biden. You're engaging in WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT. I'm done here. – Muboshgu (talk) 04:27, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 December 2018
I wish to change the 47th to 44th 193.248.58.96 (talk) 16:13, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: Why? He was indeed the 47th Vice President, not the 44th. Zingarese talk  ·  contribs  16:21, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
 * ❌ after I think you are wanting to change the 47th Vice President to the 44th Vice President.  Why?  If you look at the List of Vice Presidents of the United States he was the 47th Vice President.  ~ GB fan 16:23, 11 December 2018 (UTC)

Comments on Trump
Why does this article have a 'Comments on Trump' section? It seems undue and like a database. Moreover, some of the sections like healthcare and immigration don't even mention Trump.

Semi-protected edit request on 15 December 2018
"on the following" = "In the following" 2605:E000:9149:8300:DCCD:697:C293:760 (talk) 23:49, 15 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: He was "signing on" "the following year" - poor phrasing, but "signing in the following year" makes no sense. DannyS712 (talk) 02:17, 16 December 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 February 2019
The high school and college are combined in one paragraph which is too long. There should be a paragraph break after "He graduated in 1961." 2600:1002:B107:BA43:F890:16D0:CF9F:FDA1 (talk) 14:55, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done DannyS712 (talk) 16:40, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

Lucy Flores Controversy
Why does this deserve any mention? Not every nonsense on twitter deserves a mention in history. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.52.166.48 (talk) 02:57, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Inclusion is considered based on RS. "Nonsense on twitter" does not fall into this category. A notable subject (Lucy Flores) wrote an op-ed in a notable publication (New York Magazine) and the subsequent coverage appears in many RS.---Kbabej (talk) 16:30, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request
In the last part of the lede, please change:

"...and a CNN poll placed him as the most popular potential Democratic presidential candidate in a pool of likely contenders. "

to:

"...and a July, 2018 poll by HarrisX and The Hill placed him as the most popular potential Democratic presidential candidate in a pool of likely contenders. "

Reason: The reference is not and does not mention CNN. The eror can be traced back to the original addition here. The date was added as newer polls are likely forthcoming.

2601:194:300:130:2C65:BCFC:4B1E:F2F9 (talk) 17:53, 1 April 2019 (UTC)


 * --Distelfinck (talk) 09:42, 2 April 2019 (UTC)

✅ HopsonRoad (talk) 13:22, 2 April 2019 (UTC)

Anita Hill Controversy

 * Hey, I'm noticing that this page is pretty thin in regards to the controversy regarding Joe Biden's statements to Anita Hill during the 1991 Clarence Thomas investigations. Considering the recent Brett Kavanaugh hearing sexual assault allegations and the prominence of #Metoo in politics and culture, I think this is a major issue to discuss in any encyclopedic entry on the man. I am gathering sources presently and will be adding a subsection into the Joe Biden page to agknowledge this controversy.

Joe Biden Alligations

 * Hey, I'm noticing that this page is pretty thin in regards to the controversy regarding Joe Biden's allegations. Being a public figure, the same focus should be put on him as anyone else or any other politician like Donald Trump.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/joe-biden-accuser-uncomfortable-touching_n_5ca5264de4b05acba4dbd0f2

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/03/31/lucy_flores_i_want_joe_biden_to_acknowledge_that_what_he_did_was_wrong.html

https://www.vox.com/2019/4/4/18292436/lucy-flores-joe-biden-amy-lappos-accusations

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/04/two-more-women-allege-joe-biden-inappropriately-touched-them.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 11a5f0041b8542aaac71fb3f45cc60 (talk • contribs)


 * There is a good sized section on it actually Joe_Biden ResultingConstant (talk) 22:46, 4 April 2019 (UTC)


 * I believe the allegations should be front and center. It should be in the introduction akin to articles like Louis C.K.. Considering the seriousness of the allegations and the fact Biden has already made a public admission and apology, there should be no question. 84percent (talk) 15:11, 6 April 2019 (UTC)


 * The accusations against Louis CK were much more severe, and had a much more detrimental affect on his career. Biden's actions, while inappropriate and out of place, are not anywhere near as egregious (nor overtly sexual) as Louis CK. Also, there has been no affect on his career, just some controversy. If he were forced out of the race, or sued, or charged with something, then it could be lead worthy, but not now. ResultingConstant (talk) 15:36, 6 April 2019 (UTC)
 * I concur with ResultingConstant. HopsonRoad (talk) 15:47, 6 April 2019 (UTC)

I don't think that the allegations should be under the Post VP category. There have been allegations of this type of behavior dating back much further than 2017. QueenFan (talk) 23:09, 10 April 2019 (UTC)
 * True, QueenFan. Do you (and other editors) suggest that it should be moved to another section or become its own major heading, e.g. after "Distinctions"? Also, are there inclusion-worthy articles that you can cite that predate what is already cited? Sincerely, HopsonRoad (talk) 02:10, 11 April 2019 (UTC)
 * I am not sure i agree. Although indeed the events happened at various time periods, the story didn't really gain traction until now. It had no prior effect on his career or reputation. Whereas now it is a heavily discussed issue, and in the context of his potential presidential campaign. I think for now the current section makes the most sense. ResultingConstant (talk) 03:01, 11 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Normally the allegations would be able to be slotted under a personal life section. It wouldn't work for this article though, because it's almost entirely written chronologically. It could be its own heading, especially if more information and people comes forward. I definitely recall Biden's touching women during his vice presidency and before, I'll do some research. QueenFan (talk) 04:33, 11 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes, there are such photos. But they did not gain any traction or affect him until now. ResultingConstant (talk) 14:01, 11 April 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 April 2019
"Family death" section should be "Family deaths", since there were two. 2600:1002:B103:59ED:5DB9:DEBF:AF07:9F12 (talk) 17:49, 25 April 2019 (UTC)
 * ✅ - Hello, and thank you for lending your time to help improve Wikipedia! If you are interested in editing more often, I suggest you create an account to gain additional privileges. Happy editing! - MrX 🖋 18:08, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

Did Biden oppose the Bin Laden raid for electoral reasons?
Text was added to the article claiming that was the case. The text was sourced to a WaPo op-ed by a AEI pundit summarizing a book by a [seemingly reputable] journalist. Snooganssnoogans (talk) 03:13, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
 * The Hill and Politico both say his objection was based on political reasons.  Calidum   04:29, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

How to characterize his political philosophy?
An edit added text claiming he was generally described as being between the center and center-left. The sourcing for this was insufficient, and in my view falsely suggested that Biden was somehow centrist (as in between the right and the left, e.g. like perhaps more appropriately Joe Manchin). Most sources seem to describe him as a "moderate Democrat", including those added in that edit. I'd also like to see more comprehensive sourcing on this, with different measures of "liberalness". More care needs to be taken with these descriptions. If I recall correctly, the Hillary Clinton and Tim Kaine Wikipedia pages, for example, at one time falsely suggested that they were somehow not liberals, even though they had the voting records to prove it (never mind running the most progressive Democratic campaign in modern politics). Snooganssnoogans (talk) 21:52, 30 April 2019 (UTC)
 * I think moderate Democrat is best. All of the descriptions in U.S. politics are controversial or ambiguous to some degree, but this seems like the least biased. He is in the Clinton-Obama group of the party. While his policies may be more liberal at present, that reflects a general move of the party. TFD (talk) 23:40, 30 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Biden and Hillary are both party-line politicans. They don't really have a personal political philosophy. 84percent (talk) 02:43, 1 May 2019 (UTC)


 * Of course they have a political philosophy. What has changed over time is their policy positions which change with social, political and economic circumstances. But their reaction to changing circumstances is predictable. TFD (talk) 05:13, 1 May 2019 (UTC)
 * I don't agree with you. :-) 84percent (talk) 05:24, 1 May 2019 (UTC)
 * You do not have to. In your political philosophy, no matter what external events are, the answers are always the same. But in every other political philosophy, adherents adopt to changing circumstances. And they are only party-line so long as the party is in tune with their own views. Biden for example did not support universal health care in the 1980s and opposed school busing, against the party line. TFD (talk) 15:44, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

The key thing to consider isn't our individual personal analyses, but what reliable sources say. Does anyone disagree with Snooganssnoogans' observation that "Most sources seem to describe him as a 'moderate Democrat'"? Cheers, HopsonRoad (talk) 19:06, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

Joe Biden's past
Surely the following deserves a mention?

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/henrygomez/joe-biden-strom-thurmond-eulogy

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/joe-biden-embraced-segregation-in-1975-claiming-it-was-a-matter-of-black-pride

https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2019/02/joe-biden-segregation.html

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/3/27/18262482/joe-biden-anita-hill-2020-christine-blasey-ford-brett-kavanaugh

94.118.0.234 (talk) 09:55, 11 May 2019 (UTC)
 * None of us will know if you don't propose an edit. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:17, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

Allegations of inappropriate physical contact
This section was deleted on 2019-05-12 at 19:37 by User talk:Buckworm. This was reverted. It was deleted again at 21:08; this time Buckworm added a note to their own talk page saying simply it was an "unfounded smear". On the contrary these behaviours are well-documented and this was a well-referenced section. Buckworm also did not answer the point that this was contrary to the consensus here on the talk page. Unfortunately that consensus was archived by a bot shortly after this short edit war but it can be found at Talk:Joe Biden/Archive 6. I am therefore re-reverting this deletion. Ijackson (talk) 17:00, 17 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Agree. ResultingConstant (talk) 18:49, 17 May 2019 (UTC)


 * It belongs in the article because it has been well covered in mainstream media and is an issue in the Democratic nomination race. I think however the section was too long. Perhaps it would be better to trim it to one paragraph and include it in the preceding "2020 presidential campaign." TFD (talk) 23:03, 17 May 2019 (UTC)


 * I concur that it belongs in the article and that some of the material in the middle paragraph could be shortened. I don't concur that it should be placed in the "2020 presidential campaign" paragraph, however, since the referenced behavior was reported as early as 2015. Hopson Road 03:00, 18 May 2019
 * It was mentioned in an op-ed by a Republican campaigner which I have removed as failing rs. But it did not achieve any attention in reliable sources. It is however a current issue reported in reliable sources. TFD (talk) 04:10, 18 May 2019 (UTC)
 * The op-ed piece linked to several sources in the 2015 time frame, including The best of Biden being Biden from the new Congress’ first day, PBS, January 6, 2015. I restored the piece, since it was subject to fact checking by the Time editorial board, before publication and contained confirmatory videos of the behavior described. This is supported by WP:NEWSORG. HopsonRoad (talk) 13:38, 18 May 2019 (UTC)
 * That does not make any sense. If you were correct, then there would be no need for the policy. I raised the issue at RSN. TFD (talk) 15:05, 18 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Mentioning Biden's inappropriate touching and kissing should be in the lead paragraph, just like the characterization of Trump as a liar and racist is in the lead paragraph of his article. Burying Biden's inappropriate touching deep in the article downplays it too much.JohnTopShelf (talk) 17:24, 19 June 2019 (UTC)

There does seem to be consensus that this section should be updated, that much is clear. However I have learned my lesson messing with Wikipedia Gestapo Buckworm (talk) 01:40, 19 May 2019 (UTC)


 * The main point of discussion at this point is whether reliable sources covered this issue prior to the current presidential campaign. Here is what another user found and posted in a discussion at Reliable sources/Noticeboard:
 * Kim, E.K., December 17, 2013 Photo of famously friendly Biden goes viral, Today Show
 * Peralta, E. February 17, 2015, Joe Biden Gets A Bit Too Close To New Secretary Of Defense's Wife, PBS
 * Cameron, G, February 18, Veep Creep? Biden's Odd Move at Carter Ceremony, NBC
 * Levintova, H, August 5, 2015, 8 Reasons Joe Biden Is a Dream Candidate and a Disaster, ''Mother Jones
 * These suggest against placing this topic solely in the context of the 2020 campaign. HopsonRoad (talk) 18:23, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 June 2019
Please change his mothers home from County Londonderry to Derry as they are bot officially recognised please, you cannot have one without the other being named.

Thank you, Monkeymagicdub (talk) 16:04, 20 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. - FlightTime  ( open channel ) 16:07, 20 June 2019 (UTC)

Joe Biden (The Onion)
I've just created the article Joe Biden (The Onion), which covers the caricatured version of Biden featured in The Onion. I bring it up here because a lot of the sources I came across in the course of research and used in the article would also be very useful in other contexts related to Biden's public image. If anyone intends to develop broader articles like Public image of Joe Biden or Joe Biden on social media (analogous to Public image of Barack Obama or Barack Obama on social media), I think my article may give a helpful head start. I also welcome feedback on the Onion–Biden article! —BLZ · talk 18:24, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

Unverified information about Joe Biden working as a public defender
The article states that Joe Biden worked as a public defender. The sources for this claim, cited in Footnote 27, are: Leubsdorf, Carl P. (September 6, 1987). "Biden Keeps Sights Set On White House". The Dallas Morning News. Reprinted in "Lifelong ambition led Joe      Biden to Senate, White House aspirations". The Dallas Morning News. August 23, 2008. Archived from the original on September 19, 2008.

However, the referenced newspaper article from the Dallas Morning directly contradicts this claim and includes no mention whatsoever of having worked as a public defender: "Biden's first legal job back in Wilmington in 1968 was with a firm headed by William Prickett, a prominent Republican. Though he registered as an independent, Biden earlier this year told Laurence Barrett of Time magazine that, during this period, "I thought of myself as a Republican for six or seven months, no longer.""

https://web.archive.org/web/20080919060037/http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/washington/cleubsdorf/stories/082308dnpolbiden87profile.4d6e19b.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.74.118.18 (talk) 20:34, 28 June 2019 (UTC)


 * Apparently he briefly did some Public Defender work while employed by a law firm, according to his 2008 autobiography, p, 47. TFD (talk) 18:37, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

2020: undue weight
The 2020 campaign section is already getting bogged down with WP:NOTNEWS. Do we really need the war story? The working with segregationists? At some point, this section will need to include how he does in the primaries. – Muboshgu (talk) 20:33, 31 August 2019 (UTC)

Audience analysis
How many readers came here wanting to know if they'd like Biden to be our next president? How many just want to read a Joe Biden "travel log," which is my take on this article.

I'm interested in Biden's major accomplishments, which do happen to be covered in the article, "Political positions of Joe Biden." Unfortunately, the existence of this article is only announced far down the page in the right side-panel. I recommend moving the entry titled "This article is part of a series about Joe Biden" to the very top of the side panel where readers are likely to find it, as is done in Biden's political-positions article. -- Page Notes (talk) 19:52, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 September 2019
Please change the '2020 election campaign' to its own section, not subsection of 'Post vice-Presidency' such as to section 7 in the 'Contents' because it requires much more detail, already lends 'undue weight' to controversy and needs subsections in its own right to properly explain. Penedium20 (talk) 13:35, 20 September 2019 (UTC)


 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: There's a separate article on Biden's 2020 election campaign. The section in this article is already too long, IMO - it should be a summary of the 2020 campaign article, not a repeat of it. <b style="border:1px solid #000; color:#000; background-color:#CBD4E4; padding: 0px 2px;">Marianna251</b><b style="padding:2px; font-size:80%;">TALK</b> 18:16, 26 September 2019 (UTC)

Joe Biden's 2005 BAPCA Vote
Coming just a few years before the financial crisis this law has been described as an attack on the middle class yet there is an insufficient and inaccurate mention of Biden's vote and lobbying for this disgraceful legislation. The section is biased, dishonest and poorly written: implying BAPCA is a compound of benign pro-consumer legislation.

There needs to be a section dedicated to accurately describing Joe Biden's role in lobbying for, voting for and passing BAPCA in 2005 - whether or not BAPCA is summarized as an atrocity. There is no debate on how hugely significant this law is and Joe Biden's critical role in the legislative process. Perhaps cutting and pasting from Wikipedia's BAPCA page will suffice — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.120.168.70 (talk) 16:48, 10 October 2019 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bankruptcy_Abuse_Prevention_and_Consumer_Protection_Act

1972 United States Senate election in Delaware
Hello all! Teamsters Union leader Frank Sheeran wrote in 2004 that in 1972 he organized a strike to prevent delivery of a newspaper which had Republican attack ads against Biden. I want to add this sentence to the article, but I imagine it may cause some discussion. Sources for the claim are on the 1972 United States Senate election in Delaware page. What do you think? Geographyinitiative (talk) 02:02, 14 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Here's kind of what I want to do （）Geographyinitiative (talk) 02:07, 14 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Hello all- let me know if you think adding some form this sentence is warranted/worthwhile. I think that if this sentence has a basis in fact, then it probably should be added ie is there confirmation of the events in question, is there anyone who can corroborate any of this besides Sheeran, etc. Wikipedia is about making a neutral encyclopedia and if it is a fact that Sheeran did this stuff and that he later said these were his motives, then I think an encylopedia article would include a passing reference to Sheeran's claims with further analysis in the 1972 United States Senate election in Delaware article. No shame toward Biden- Sheeran goes out of his way to say that Biden probably never knew about this. But in a close race like that, suppressing that Republican attack ad could have made Biden's chances better. That's my personal, unprofessional opinion. Geographyinitiative (talk) 04:48, 14 October 2019 (UTC)

Hunter Biden's activities in Ukraine
This information has been reverted, with the following edit summary: "Remove gratuitous insinuation of wrongdoing." I think it is relevant and should be included.

"In September 2019 it was reported that President Donald Trump had been pressuring the Ukrainian government to investigate alleged wrongdoing by Biden and his son Hunter Biden, who took a board seat on Ukrainian natural gas company Burisma Holdings."

-- Tobby72 (talk) 08:09, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Not good. This makes it sound like taking a board seat is wrongdoing on the the part of Biden and his son. It also omits the fact that it has already been investigated by Ukrainian prosecutors. You can't just stick this in sentences actross multiple articles. It's WP:UNDUE and lacks WP:NPOV.- MrX 🖋 11:07, 30 September 2019 (UTC)
 * It still is worth mentioning as an accusation that has characterized views on his character. Excluding this would be like excluding allegations against president Trump, those allegations have been important to how people view the individual and should be addressed. That being said, we should note that there is no definitive evidence of illegal acts to prevent the issue of insinuating wrongdoing.Bgrus22 (talk) 23:15, 10 December 2019 (UTC)
 * that last sentence is about all we'll allow. it would be best of course to just not-mention those conspiracy theories at all --especially with an election coming up, we need to police the POV even harder. Cramyourspam (talk) 15:02, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

Biden is being dishonest about his Iraq war vote
But that only matters if the public sees Biden as dishonest even if he is a liar. Joe Biden's 2002 vote in favor of the Iraq War will be merely incidental if his campaign is successful. This should be mentioned in the Wikipedia article - however the article references this key vote by stating that Biden voted against a later increase after the war already started. That's clear bias, but is being permitted. There should be a mention (an objective analysis?) of how critical an issue the Iraq war vote is for the political campaign. The issue is so important to the Biden campaign (and the Trump campaign) we've seen candidates who won't be elected President, such as Tulsi Gabbard whose campaign is merely an accessory to the referendum, state that she, like Joe Biden (and Hillary Clinton) were merely lied into sanctioning the war by lies from 'the other side.' The public may be willing to swallow this explanation but why can't the article make any mention of this?

Mark Twain: "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.61.8.59 (talk) 14:36, 29 December 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 December 2019
73.61.8.59 (talk) 14:43, 29 December 2019 (UTC)

The BAPCA act section is incomplete and fails to show how harmful this legislation is. Please change this disinformation. This is as UNAMBIGUOUS as I can be. You do the leg work, this section reads like a campaign ad.
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Zingarese talk  ·  contribs  14:59, 29 December 2019 (UTC)

Turn to far-left extremism
Perhaps it should be mentioned in the article of Biden's recent embrace of the far-left transgenderism agenda, which discriminates against people who believe in basic biology and common sense as "transphobic": [www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/01/26/joe-biden-transgender-equality-is-the-civil-rights-issue-of-our-time]  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ottersees (talk • contribs) 12:46, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Spare us the hyperbole. Activist (talk) 17:07, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Busing
I have two concerns about this section. The first is that it feels disproportionate: more than half of the "early Senate activities" section is devoted to busing. It feels like this is because this is an issue that arose last year after his remarks about Eastland and Harris's attack during the first debate, not because it is clearly the most important thing about his career in the 1970s. The second is that opening statement which claims he was "one of the Senate's leading opponents" of busing. I think that requires a citation. john k (talk) 12:29, 20 January 2020 (UTC)