Talk:Joe Brooks (singer)

dab
We might want to make this a disambiguation page for the two Joes and two Joseph Brooks. (John User:Jwy talk) 01:10, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Agreed. But there is only one Joe Brooks.  The other is a non-notable singer already deleted as Joe Brooks (Singer) and now duplicated here and at Joe Brooks (Pop Singer).  I will put the latter up for a Speedy delete. Lame Name (talk) 06:39, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
 * There are a couple Joseph Brooks, one of which is called Joe Brooks on some pages. . .  Pop Singer should be pop singer as well.  (John User:Jwy talk) 07:13, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I added more references and links to meet the notability guidelines. While he is unsigned, he is still notable because of his myspace presence. (Ryan User:evilkarrot talk 16:14, 12 March 2009 (PDT)

Notability
The guidelines for the notability of musicians are quite generous but I do not see how Joe Brooks ("Just another bedroom musician" according to his youTube page) meets them. Perhaps someone could enlighten me. Lame Name (talk) 03:34, 13 March 2009 (UTC)


 * He is notable because he is the number one artist in the UK on myspace. Myspace is a major force in the music industry now.  That is how a lot of artists get started.  Just because he isn't signed and classifies himself as "a bedroom musician" doesn't mean he isn't notable. Ryan User:evilkarrot talk 09:21, 13 March 2009 (PDT)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.56.210.14 (talk)
 * Notability (in the Wikipedia sense) is not some arbitrary point but the criteria by which a subject is deemed worthy of having an article. The link provided above lists what would be considered notable for a musician.   An earlier version of this article has been removed due to a lack of notability please try and meet the specified criteria for non-trivial coverage as was requested for that original article. Lame Name (talk) 18:17, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
 * According to the notability guidelines listed under music, an artist is notable if they meet ANY of the criteria listed. Joe Brooks meets two criteria points:


 * 1) It has been the subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent from the musician or ensemble itself and reliable.
 * As linked in the references section, Joe Brooks has been on BBC radio, interviewed for the Birmingham Mail, AND Magazine, and other sources.


 * 4) Has received non-trivial coverage in a reliable source of an international concert tour, or a national concert tour in at least one sovereign country.
 * Some of the articles referenced point to his sold out UK Tour from February/March 2009.


 * Those points alone meet the guidelines set by wikipedia for notability. Evilkarrot (talk) 18:26, 13 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Can you provide details in the article? Lame Name (talk) 18:39, 13 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I am sorry. I guess I am new to this and don't understand the objection.  I have referenced the sources in the article.  I have made mention of facts from those articles.  I have mentioned the national tour.  What other suggestions do you think I should make?  Thanks.  Evilkarrot (talk) 21:41, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Local radio and press will interview anybody to fill their space. Very few of the interviewees will be notable.   Does six gigs a national tour make?  Does claiming to sell out a 200 capacity venue make him any different to the hundreds  of working bands who do not have an article in Wikipedia?   Had the BBC or Birmingham Mail (or any other nontrivial source) sent someone to a concert and reviewed it then we would be bordering on notability.  Has there been any mainstream music press coverage at all? Lame Name (talk) 07:25, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Does any band that gets interviewed or gets radio coverage also compete with Oasis for plays on myspace? The answer is no. Joe Brooks is notable because of his presence on myspace.  He is a top artist on their charts.  He plays to sold out shows in the UK and the US. In addition, the notability guidelines don't require national coverage, just multiple independent coverage (which Joe Brooks has).  They also require "a national concert tour in at least one sovereign country."  Joe Brooks has met that requirement.  Evilkarrot (talk) 18:36, 16 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Noteworthy or not, the article reads more like a fan site than an encyclopedia and should be trimmed down. For example, saying the artist is planning to do a tour someday is not useful information, even if the artist was Bruce Springsteen. If the plans have progressed to the point where dates and venues have been chosen then in might be included.--RDBury (talk) 12:06, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Also, the page really should be moved to avoid confusion with other people with similar names, there is at least one link to this article which should be to the article on the Joe Brooks of "You Light Up My Life" fame.--RDBury (talk) 12:11, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Agreed. The original article was moved to make way for this "more relevant" article.  I shall be putting this article up for deletion again as it has no place here and then, as suggested above, using this page to disambiguate the other Joe Brooks. Lame Name (talk) 12:23, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

I moved this one and set up a dab page. Although I see this topic as not meeting WP:MUSIC (I can't quite speedy it, given the shreds of independent coverage and assertions about MySpace plays), I think it's too soon for another AfD, though any editor can start another given the outcome of the last was nc. If there is an AfD any time soon, the nom might take care to be very thoughtful and thorough about showing why, following policy, this topic would not belong here. Gwen Gale (talk) 13:11, 3 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the disambiguation page. To my mind the lack of consensus on the AfD was due to the WP:MUSIC not being sufficiently explicit on which, if any, internet statistics, such as MySpace friends, YouTube plays, qualify as evidence of notability. In this particular case it seems probable that the MySpace and YouTube numbers were influenced by the similarity in names with the composer of "You Light Up My Life". There may have also been some confusion of the Joe Brooks song "Superman" with the Lazlo Bane song "Superman" which was used as the theme to Scrubs. Not only do the songs have the same name but they are in similar styles so a casual listener might not notice the difference. It should also be noted with respect to the BBC, that it has a great many outlets with varying levels of exposure, and coverage on "Good Morning Somerset" should not be equated with coverage on the World Service. Finally, I did listen to one or two of his songs and he does have talent (IMO) and it's possible that the guy could have a #1 UK hit by 2011. But WP:NOTCRYSTAL implies that it's not the purpose of Wikipedia to be ahead of the curve on these things. That job is best left to record companies and agents.--RDBury (talk) 16:30, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Following up, it appears that Joe Brooks is starting a UK tour today.--RDBury (talk) 19:28, 9 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Another follow up, Joe Brooks has signed with Lava records. Notability guidelines state that releasing an album under a significant label is sufficient for notability. There are still two problems however. First, signing is not the same as releasing an album. Second, while the old Lava Records would have qualified as a significant label, that label was absorbed into a larger label and this Lava is a new incarnation created by the founded of the old label, Jason Flom. The new Lava has yet to prove itself and so it's hard to claim that it qualifies as a significant label at the moment.--RDBury (talk) 14:18, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
 * The actual requirement is...
 * Has released two or more albums on a major label or one of the more important indie labels (i.e., an independent label with a history of more than a few years and a roster of performers, many of which are notable).
 * We are still a long way from notability here. Lame Name (talk) 17:05, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Official website
The official website link goes to an unfinished page which hasn't been updated in a while. I'm adding the singer's MySpace page since that seems to be the de facto official page (includes concert info etc.) I know WP:ELNO frowns on using MySpace links but there is an exception provided for official pages.--RDBury (talk) 19:45, 9 September 2009 (UTC)


 * WP:ELNO says: Note that under WP:External links#What should be linked, a link to a social networking site may be included when it is an official website for a business, organization, or person. However, Wikipedia does not provide a comprehensive web directory to every official website, and more than one official website should be listed only when the additional links provide unique content and are not prominently linked from other official websites.


 * The MySpace page is prominently linked from the "official" website. Lame Name (talk) 19:49, 9 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I see your point, but the joebrooks.com site is basically a "Coming Soon" banner with links at the bottom. I think a good compromise would be to just list the MySpace page for now since that also has links to related pages. If and when the joebrooks.com site is ready for prime time then it the link can put back to what it was.--RDBury (talk) 20:31, 9 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Coming soon - much like his notable career.  We hold our breath in anticipation.Lame Name (talk) 02:34, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Joe Tancock
Joe's birth name is Joe Tancock. Yes, it has the word 'cock' in it, why else do you think he picked a friendlier stage name? Edits to the article adding his birth name keep getting reverted because people think it's vandalism. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.16.160.8 (talk) 14:46, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I didn't remove it because I thought it was vandalism; I removed it because personal info in a biography of a living person needs a citation to a reliable source. I tried to find one but was unable. Do you have a reliable source (such as a newspaper or magazine article) that reports his birth name as Tancock? Thanks, Paul Erik  (talk) (contribs) 22:40, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

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