Talk:Joe McCain

Additional deletion discussions here
More than one of Obama's siblings have pages as does his mother, father, hell his grandparents and at least one great grandparent have articles.

It's time we at least do the same for McCains imedeate family. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Stinkyandthebrain (talk • contribs)


 * The "other stuff exists" argument is not usually a successful one in deletion debates. If you want the other articles you refer to deleted, you can nominate them for deletion via speedy deletion, via WP:PROD or via WP:AFD. Being related to a political candidate does not confer inherent notability. Can you find multiple reliable and independent sources with substantial coverage of Joe McCain, in addition to simply giving him passing mention by saying he is John's brother? If so, add them and that would show his notability. With respect to your edit summary "I don't treat people who try to delete legitimate articles with respect," the policy against personal attacks in fact does require that you at least do not attack people who seek to delete articles you like or have created.  Edison (talk) 23:57, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22joe+mccain%22+brother

looks like there should be some info out there.

And if you want people to respect you don't delete their article less than a minute after it's been created epsecially if you didn't even bother to read it! Stinkyandthebrain (talk) 00:10, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
 * It was actually easy to read the short article, just like the short attack article which was previously deleted. Civility is required; respect isn't. Edison (talk) 04:27, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Sources to improve the article, and which tend to demonstrate notability, from the AFD, found at Google News Archive and NewspaperArchive.com(subscription):
 * Keep I originally speedily deleted the article because it was unreferenced and had WP:BLP issues due to unreferenced statements about Joe McCain's personal life in the first posted version. But the principle that relatives of politicians are not inherently notable certainly does not mean that they are inherently NON-notable. Also, I believe that the precedent of what has been kept and what has been deleted in AFD actually does provide guidance for future AFDs: We have kept several articles about relatives of world leaders or political candidates who are notable only as a result of their famous relative, but who have substantial coverage in multiple reliable and independent sources, thus satisfying WP:N. There is no requirement that this coverage be completely unrelated to the career of their politician relative. For Joe McCain, there are numerous article in newspapers over at least the past 37 years, long before McCain was a political candidate. There is coverage of Joe McCain sitting in a bamboo cage in Los Angeles, eating simulated POW food to dramatize the plight of POWs, as printed in The Independent (Long Beach, CA) Nov. 27, 1970. There is "In behalf of POWs, will ask 'doves' to sign petition" (Associated Press, December 31, 1970) as printed in Florence (SC) Morning News, Dec. 31, 1970, page 1 (via NewspaperArchive.com (subscription). This is a feature story about Joe McCain and two other brothers of POWs travelling around the US circulating petitions to be presented to North Vietnamese representatives.   There is a 86 word passage about him in "Powerful Virginia Machine Digs In to Tackle McCain," By Francis X. Clines, The New York Times, February 25, 2000. See "MCCAIN WILL PRESS CAMPAIGN TO REFORM GOP, BROTHER SAYS" March 8, 2000, by Tom Ernst, The Buffalo News which has substantial coverage of Joe McCain, partly behind paywall. See "Brother on Board; Joe McCain Isn't Steering the Campaign, But He's Proud to Be in the Back Seat" by Frank Ahrens,  The Washington Post,  February 3, 2000. which is certainly a story in a major newspaper devoted to Joe McCain. "WORLD VIEWS: U.S. losing friends over torture" Edward M. Gomez, special to SF Gate (San Francisco Chronicle), November 15, 2005 has 126 words about Joe McCain on the Abu Ghraib torture scandal and his brother. "Theater;Falling in Love With Love ;At GALA, Garcia Lorca's..." Washington Post, Feb 4, 1991 talks about an about an actor named Joe McCain, but it is behind paywall so it takes further research to see if it is this Joe McCain, who is said to be an actor.   Edison (talk) 15:49, 20 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Found another if Human Events, a conservative publication, is considered a "reliable source. See "McCain won't run (Joe, that is)," Human Events, Sep 17, 2001 by John Gizzi, which stated that Joe was a "59 year old dinner theater actor" who declined requests to run for the U.S. House of Representatives in the Virginia 8th District. Edison (talk) 16:10, 20 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I've taken the obvious if belated step of adding some of the material from these stories to the article, with these cites. Wasted Time R (talk) 12:02, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Article name
Somewhere recently the article name was moved to "Joseph McCain". Since every account of him throughout his life has referred to him as "Joe McCain", this is incorrect per WP:NAME and WP:NCP. See Joe Biden or Joe Torre and many other examples. I've moved it back. Wasted Time R (talk) 11:20, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

External links modified
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I have just added archive links to 3 one external links on Joe McCain. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20060421163757/http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/gate/archive/2005/11/15/worldviews.DTL to http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/gate/archive/2005/11/15/worldviews.DTL
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20081025212216/http://www.theglobeandmail.com:80/servlet/story/RTGAM.20081024.wjoemccain1024/BNStory/National/home?cid=al_gam_mostview to http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20081024.wjoemccain1024/BNStory/National/home?cid=al_gam_mostview
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20081025063301/http://www.wjla.com:80/news/stories/1008/563913.html to http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/1008/563913.html

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External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081030035215/http://www.simonsays.com/content/book.cfm?pid=407204&agid=2 to http://www.simonsays.com/content/book.cfm?pid=407204&agid=2

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