Talk:Joe Slovo/Archive 1

Removed unsourced info and two external links
I removed 68.175.87.62's 6 Nov addition about Slovo being "a member of the Soloveitchik rabbinic family" because the unregistered editor does not give a source. Two external links were also removed: (The present version of the article may resemble the ANC biographical sketch too closely. It would be nice if someone well versed in twentieth-century South African history and the life of Joe Slovo could do a rewrite based on reliable, published sources to make a truly informative, encyclopedic article, section headings indcluded.)
 * a link to the unsourced, unverifiable "Joe Slovo Quotations" at the BrainyQuote website (a look at the inanities attributed to Albert Einstein goes to show that those "quotations" websites out there are not reliable sources);
 * a link to the criticism of the 2006 feature film Catch a Fire found at FrontPageMag.com (which contains lots of opinion, but next to no information about the subject of this article, Joe Slovo, who is only a very minor character in the film even though it is dedicated to him).

--Bwiki 01:07, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Wife's murder
Why isn't it mentioned here? It was before. I suspect foul play. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.114.119.125 (talk) 00:28, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
 * In the murder? Williamson confessed. Anyway, it's there now. Babakathy (talk) 09:26, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Medal
Wasn't Joe Slovo awarded a gold medal of some sort on the personal recommendation of Nelson Mandela?AT Kunene (talk) 12:45, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

Yossel Mashel "Joe" Slovo
I've been repeatedly reverted for changing the name formatting in the lead sentence from Joe Slovo (born Yossel Mashel Slovo) to Yossel Mashel "Joe" Slovo. Despite offering multiple policies that support my position, I've been getting edit-warred with no explanation, and my work has been falsely and arrogantly painted as "vandalism".

Per WP:BIRTHNAME: "While the article title should generally be the name by which the subject is most commonly known, the subject's full name, if known, should be given in the lead sentence (including middle names, if known, or middle initials). Many cultures have a tradition of not using the full name of a person in everyday reference, but the article should start with the complete version."

Per WP:QUOTENAME: "If a person has a commonly known nickname, used in lieu of a given name, it is presented between quote marks following the last given name or initial"

Per WP:LEGALNAME: "Investigation may sometimes be needed to determine whether a subject known usually by a pseudonym has actually changed their legal name to match...Where this is not the case, and where the subject uses a popular form of their name in everyday life, then care must be taken to avoid implying that a person who does not generally use all their forenames or who uses a familiar form has actually changed their name. Do not write, for example "John Edwards (born Johnny Reid Edwards, June 10, 1953) ...". It is not always necessary to spell out why the article title and lead paragraph give a different name."

There is no evidence that Slovo legally changed his first name to "Joe", so the article should begin with his full legal name, which is Yossel Mashel Slovo. Since "Joe" is only his nickname and not his legal name, the formatting should therefore be Yossel Mashel "Joe" Slovo.

Not only does Wikipedia's Manual of Style support the quote mark format for Slovo's name, even the Government of South Africa uses the quote mark notation in their biography of Slovo: http://www.gov.za/about-government/leaders/profile/7249

Every response I've received so far regarding this matter has been needlessly brief and condescending. Hopefully there can actually be constructive conversation this time. —Sleeping is fun (talk) 02:35, 9 November 2016 (UTC)


 * "I've been getting edit-warred with no explanation". Bullshit — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 02:42, 9 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks for proving my point. :) —Sleeping is fun (talk) 02:46, 9 November 2016 (UTC)


 * Not only can't you count to three, you don't know how to read an edit summary. Very impressive. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 02:48, 9 November 2016 (UTC)


 * And not being able to read or understand WP:VALIDALT. Tsk tsk. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 02:50, 9 November 2016 (UTC)


 * Been editing more than five years and still doesn't understand the difference between a policy and a guideline. What a shame. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 02:52, 9 November 2016 (UTC)
 * You're the one that couldn't count past three, since you broke 3RR first. Then you claim that you explained yourself in your edit summaries, which you didn't, you only cited policies that supported my position. Then you insist that the very policies you yourself cited are not important enough to be followed, hahaha. You have done nothing but contradict yourself and spew childish insults. —Sleeping is fun (talk) 02:57, 9 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Please note that Sleeping is fun has selectively quoted from WP:BIRTHNAME and cited only the examples that support his argument. Had he continued, he would have seen "Jack Benny (born Benjamin Kubelsky, February 14, 1894 – December 26, 1974) ..." — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 04:29, 9 November 2016 (UTC)
 * And while he cites a South African government website in his support, he ignores Britannica: Joe Slovo, (born May 23, 1926, Obelai, Lithuania—died Jan. 6, 1995, Johannesburg, South Africa) (YOSSEL MASHEL SLOVO)" — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 04:32, 9 November 2016 (UTC)


 * Per WP:BRD, there needs to be WP:CONSENSUS before continuing to re-add a contested change. There's no consensus to have the "Joe" squeezed into the birth name, and it's far more seemless to keep his birth name together. It seems better for "Joe Slovo" to appear as it does in the first sentence, especially since many things are named after him as that, and certainly not as his birth name. Softlavender (talk) 04:11, 9 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Per common sense, a person who moved from the country of his birth when he was a child and adopted a new language and went his entire adult life by the name "Joe Slovo" should be referred to as "Joe Slovo" in the opening phrase of his biography. If the Manual of Style supports that -- and I believe it does -- fine. If it doesn't, there's a problem with the style manual, not this article. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 04:27, 9 November 2016 (UTC)