Talk:Joel Haver

Filmography
@Notwally has removed the filmography section under the pretense that it is not well sourced. I am trying to understand his perspective, as I am of the understanding that in fact I have primary (and a couple of secondary) sources for a majority of the section, and primary sources are occasionally allowed given that they are used for basic information such as I used as a reference to his filmography.

The directed features section is all accurately sourced from Haver's own playlist of directed features on his YouTube. To me is the best possible source and covers every directed film except Island which I also provided a citation for. I can understand not allowing the "other contributions" section given his reasoning. However, I'd like to add that in the draft stage I did have sources for that section in the form of external links and I was given mixed signals as a user mentioned adding external hyperlinks was discouraged as sourcing for this section. If we can come to a consensus that this section should be kept, would it be appropriate to use citations instead of external links as sources for the "other contributions" section?

I am not necessarily disagreeing with @Notwally but respectfully I don't see removing the entire section as the way to go. I reverted the change for now and I am hoping we can agree on what to do moving forward.

-Otto Faketuxedo (talk) 02:32, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * "The directed features section is all accurately sourced from Haver's own playlist of directed features on his YouTube." Exactly. That content is not properly sourced and is not noteworthy or notable. It's self-published content on a YouTube channel.
 * In addition, can you please respond to whether or not you have a conflict of interest with this article subject? Edits to this page make up nearly 50% of your account's 63 total edits, and many of them have a promotional tone that does not reflect the cited sources. – notwally (talk) 02:37, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Good point, I will re-revert it for now and if I find enough notable media to warrant a filmography section we can bring it back. I do not have a conflict of interest with Joel Haver, I just like his work. I just left a more detailed reply on my talk page.
 * Thanks for bringing this to my attention,
 * Otto Faketuxedo (talk) 02:46, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your response. Generally, videos that are self-published on YouTube are not going to be noteworthy enough to be included in biography. You should try to find independent, reliable secondary sources that comment on these works. Here at Wikipedia, there is a fairly high bar for what should be included in a biography of a living person. I do wonder if this article subject is sufficiently notable to have their own biography here, but that's not an issue I am interested in pushing. More important to me is that the content included here is reliably sourced and not promotional ("neutral" in Wikipedia's jargon).
 * I think if there are independent, reliable, secondary sources commenting specifically on one of his YouTube films, then that would probably be relevant enough to include. Maybe critical reviews from reputable publishers? – notwally (talk) 02:57, 27 June 2024 (UTC)