Talk:Joel Otto/GA1

GA Review
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Reviewer: Harrias (talk · contribs) 18:35, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

Article certainly doesn't meet quick fail criteria, and a quick read through it leads me to believe that there shouldn't be too much work needed to get this passed. Specific comments to follow.  Harrias  talk 18:35, 2 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Lead
 * Could "undrafted" maybe link to NHL Entry Draft: those outside North America may not be familiar with the idea of a draft.
 * I'm not keen on "He was known for his rivalry with Mark Messier in the 1980s Battle of Alberta.." although Battle of Alberta is linked, to someone not familiar with the term, it just doesn't make sense in the sentence. I'd personally prefer it piped and rewritten something like "He was known for his rivalry with Mark Messier in the rivalry with Edmonton in the 1980s,".
 * Also, the latter part of that sentence "1989 Stanley Cup championship team." For those outside North America, being in a "championship team" doesn't specifically mean the same as being in a "championship winning team", so it might be worth specifying that.
 * Changed all three above. Resolute 01:35, 3 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Playing career: College
 * Link jargonny terms on their first usage: for example: "He scored 52 points.." should link to Point (ice hockey).
 * Pipe "jersey retired" to Retired number.
 * Both addressed. Resolute 01:35, 3 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Playing career: Calgary
 * "On March 1, 1985, he scored his first point, an assist, against the Montreal Canadiens, and his first goal two nights later on Darren Eliot of the Los Angeles Kings." – Not keen on this sentence: I think it tries to do too much, and assumes too much knowledge. To a layperson, scoring a goal "on Darren Eliot of the Los Angeles Kings" isn't clear. Perhaps try something like "On March 1, 1985, he scored his first point, an assist, against the Montreal Canadiens, and two nights later scored his first goal, against Los Angeles Kings goaltender Darren Eliot." ?
 * Point taken. I broke it into two sentences and specified Eliot was the goaltender.  Hopefully this is better. Resolute 01:35, 3 May 2012 (UTC)


 * "Coach Bob Johnson discovered Otto's niche when he had Otto shut down Marcel Dionne," Try to avoid the repitition of Otto within the sentence: also try to cut down on the number of times you use his name throughout the article. Though obviously, as it is about him, it isn't a big issue!
 * Link "top line" to Line (ice hockey).
 * Link "screen the goaltender" to Screen (ice hockey).
 * "Otto scored at least 50 points in his first four full seasons." – Should this be "Otto scored at least 50 points in each of his first four full seasons." ?
 * What does "prohibitive favorite" mean? I assume it's something to do with them being so good that noone wants to play them, but it might be worth adding a referenced note if you can find one.
 * Changed the reference and added a direct quote from the new reference explaining the prevailing opinion. You should see it in the references section. Resolute 01:35, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Link Overtime (ice hockey).
 * There is very little information on his career with the Flames after 1989, though he reached 50 points in a season after a lull of three seasons in 1992–93; are you just lacking decent sources for much information during this period?
 * All above fixed, save adding more for his 1989-95 seasons. I try not to write too many "he had these stats, then he had these stats, then he had these stats" paragraphs, and evidently over-summarized that one.  I'll beef it up. Resolute
 * I've added a little bit, but there is surprisingly little. Virtually everything Highbeam is giving me is routine coverage (though I did find and add some from a feature story I came across). I'm always looking for more sources though.  Anything I come across will be added over time.  Resolute 03:00, 3 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Playing career: Philadelphia Flyers
 * Again, this section is a little scarce given the time he spent with the team, not much information?
 * As with above, will seek some additions. Resolute 01:35, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
 * "and had clearly lost some of his skating speed." – I think you should probably remove "clearly" from the sentence, it seems a little EDITORIAL.
 * Fixed. Resolute 01:35, 3 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Playing career: International
 * "fifth place Americans" (and some other similar) I personally would prefer this hyphenated (fifth-place Americans) but it might be a UK/US/CAN variation thing, so no huge problem either way.
 * Nope, that was just an error on my part. Hyphenated. Resolute 01:35, 3 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Career statistics
 * This section needs a supporting reference.
 * Added to the top of the references section. Resolute 01:35, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

As I said at the start, on the whole a very good article. It's a little sparse in playing details after 1989, which it would be nice to see plumped out a bit, but on the other hand, there's no point in adding stuff just for stuff's sake! I'll leave the nomination open for a while rather than putting it on hold, unless any sticking points develop. Regards,  Harrias  talk 19:13, 2 May 2012 (UTC)


 * References
 * Consider linking the works ie Edmonton Journal, Calgary Herald etc.
 * I prefer not to, actually. Personally, I've always found it unnecessary in the references. But also, I usually do two-column reference tables (though someone has come along and changed to 3+ columns) and I find that linking that was just creates a mass of blue links. I personally prefer to have the external link to the references stand out.  Resolute 01:35, 3 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Nice work, I've promoted the article.  Harrias  talk 06:58, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you, appreciate the review and comments! Resolute 13:18, 3 May 2012 (UTC)