Talk:Joey Graceffa/Archive 1

Requested move 11 January 2015

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: page moved. Andise1 (talk) 00:45, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

Joseph Graceffa → Joey Graceffa – Per WP:COMMONNAME as the majority of news sources refer to him as Joey Graceffa and he is known on YouTube as Joey Graceffa. Andise1 (talk) 22:33, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Support. Common name. It's his YouTube username and it seems he's also released music and books under this name. Andise1, you probably should've been WP:BOLD and moved this page, as I don't think it would've been controversial. Melonkelon (talk) 11:25, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I would have done that, except the page "Joey Graceffa" is locked so only administrators can move the article. It's not exactly controversial, more so something that only an administrator can do. Andise1 (talk) 23:14, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Sorry, didn't check the page, just assumed it could be created. Melonkelon (talk) 12:06, 14 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Support per WP:COMMONNAME. Softlavender (talk) 09:01, 14 January 2015 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Musician; writer
Lots of YouTubers make music videos. Putting out one original video does not make you a "musician". Even Graceffa says, on his YouTube channel, that he does not consider himself a singer. Similarly, all YouTubers write content for their videos. I don't think it's helpful to call him a "writer" unless someone other than himself hires him as a writer and he has a sustained writing career. -- Ssilvers (talk) 22:10, 18 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Connor Franta, Tanya Burr, Grace Helbig, and Mamrie Hart are a few example of YouTubers who are listed as an "author" or "writer" on their Wikipedia page. Most of them wrote memoirs, so I see no reason why Graceffa's article should be any different. As for being a musician, he did release a song, which in my opinion classifies him as a musician. However, others may think differently about that. Andise1 (talk) 22:37, 18 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Generally, the Youtuber bio pages are very poor in quality, including the ones you named. They are not helpful as examples.  If you want examples of good Wikipedia bios, look at WP:Featured Articles.  A person's occupations should be described based on the jobs/businesses in which they devote a substantial amount of their professional or business time.  Graceffa has spent 8 years vlogging on YouTube, so clearly he is a YouTuber or vlogger.  He has acted in a bunch of web series and short films, so it is reasonable to describe him as an actor (although his acting resume would not, by itself, make him notable).  The fact that he occasionally sings in his videos does not make him a "musician".  He has never charted on the Billboard Hot 100, put out an album, or even performed a live concert.  He does not make significant money from being a singer or musician.  So until he demonstrates that he is sustaining a music career, I think it is misleading to describe him as a musician.  Likewise,  until he demonstrates that he is sustaining a writing career, I think it is misleading to describe him as a writer.  We do describe his music video, and we probably give it more ink than it warrants, but that can be corrected over time.  This is just my opinion as a person who has created quite a few FAs and GAs, and who regularly reviews articles nominated for promotion to those classes. All the best! -- Ssilvers (talk) 00:00, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

StyleHaul
I do not think that Graceffa's joining StyleHaul is significant. Isn't this just an agency that suggests branding deals between people like Graceffa and advertisers? All the successful YouTubers have various brand sponsorship relationships, but the branding middle-men, like StyleHaul, do not seem worth mentioning in an encyclopedia article about the person's life and career. If Graceffa has a very significant and lucrative deal with an actual brand, I would think that would be of more interest. -- Ssilvers (talk) 18:36, 19 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Theoretically speaking it's pretty important to say who Graceffa is partnered with if any future employer came and looked on the page for information about him.Hippoplumpy (talk) 21:44, 19 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia is an encyclopedia for general readers. It is not meant to be an organ for promotion of the subject.  See WP:NOT and WP:PROMO. -- Ssilvers (talk) 21:51, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
 * That is correct. This means that the network in which Graceffa's channel is partnered with falls under the description of being encyclopedic. Andise1 (talk) 00:48, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

Sexuality
Does kissing a male co-star make you inherently gay? No. It seems that the book may feature his coming out, but no source is currently being used. I am removing sexuality for now AusLondonder (talk) 23:20, 16 May 2015 (UTC)


 * I agree that there is no clear statement of his sexuality .... yet, but twitter is full of people congratulating him on coming out and he has tweeted his thanks to everyone for their responses. I would expect a more definitive statement about his sexuality to come from him soon enough. His Wikipedia page can wait for that. 99.192.70.118 (talk) 00:13, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Dunno if this counts as a source, but here. 177.142.180.230 (talk) 03:01, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
 * The "Superfame" website certainly fails the test of a reliable source, but it claims Graceffa's book itself is the ultimate source of the information. I checked and Superfame's claim that the book can be viewed on Google Books is in fact true and the book does include the passages that Superfame quotes where Graceffa declares that he is gay and discusses the struggle he experienced with his sexuality. The official publication of the book, however, is not until May 19th and I don't think that Google Books counts as an official publication even of excerpts, so I am not sure it is a citable source in this case. But reliable sources we can cite should be available today I would think. 99.192.69.79 (talk) 11:36, 17 May 2015 (UTC) (=99.192.70.118)
 * He posted a video here. Confirming that he is indeed gay. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.86.104.127 (talk) 03:03, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

Category for discussion
I believe, for many LGBT YouTubers, especially those who have found fame or increase fame through a coming out video, being an LGBT YouTuber is a defining characteristic, just like the Gay politicians or Gay writers category. However, a user has nominated the category LGBT YouTubers for deletion. [|Please see the discussion here] AusLondonder (talk) 09:23, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

February 2016
User continues to remove sourced content stating that the article subject lives in California with his dogs. Here's a great spot to explain those edits. Curro2 (talk)
 * I have provided even more specific references. Perhaps one could look at the article titles before robotically reverting yet again. Curro2 (talk) 10:18, 21 February 2016 (UTC)