Talk:John Berry (country singer)

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Why does this article make no mention of the brain aneurysm that almost killed him and stopped his career for a while? This is a major event in his life and damn near killed his career & him. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lgore69 (talk • contribs) 12:15, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

ref: http://www.theentertainmentnexus.com/interviews/ten/berryJohn2006Dec.htm DocOfSoc (talk) 13:29, 11 August 2010 (UTC) ref2:http://countrymusic.about.com/library/blsongsandstoriesrev.htm DocOfSoc (talk) 13:30, 11 August 2010 (UTC) ref3:http://new.music.yahoo.com/john-berry/news/john-berry-exits-capitol--12049399 ref4:http://www.countrymusicplanet.com/johnberry/ ref5:http://books.google.com/books?id=7Mo7xm-X1r4C&pg=PA37&lpg=PA37&dq=JOhn+Berry,+surgery&source=bl&ots=YTF0Uz49WP&sig=AHhZblbNr3s4uA7JSUHAkIPlSFE&hl=en&ei=SaxiTLn5F432tgOTwZnKCA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAjge#v=onepage&q=JOhn%20Berry%2C%20surgery&f=false ref6:http://www.the9513.com/john-berry-heads-to-muscle-shoals-for-new-christian-themed-album/ref7:http://www.onlineathens.com/cgi-bin/rockathens/stories.cgi?/rockathens/stories/berryjohn_19971100.shtml
 * notes: John had brain surgery to remove a cyst from the top of his spinal column. brain tumor. —Preceding unsigned comment added by DocOfSoc (talk • contribs) 13:47, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

articles.latimes.com/keyword/john-berry :articles.latimes.com/keyword/john-berry Listeners won't be able to notice it in the vocals on this 1999 album, Wildest Dreams, but only a short year before this recording was made, award-winning artist John Berry was facing one of the most horrible waking nightmares a singer can — the urgent need for throat surgery.in 1998 http://itunes.apple.com/us/album/wildest-dreams/id29269515 doctors discovered a tumor and Berry underwent life-threatening brain surgery. ...articles.latimes.com/keyword/john-berry - —Preceding unsigned comment added by DocOfSoc (talk • contribs) 14:20, 11 August 2010 (UTC) ref--good--http://www.journal-news.net/page/content.detail/id/511265.html?nav=5094
 * http://books.google.com/books?id=uAsEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA31&lpg=PA31&dq=JOhn+Berry,+surgery&source=bl&ots=NBKLBFFvvL&sig=jmxLFGEIzlElc8w6NZTE1rNBMso&hl=en&ei=4K9iTI2XAZK8sQOxg7CHCA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CCkQ6AEwBjgy#v=onepage&q=JOhn%20Berry%2C%20surgery&f=false —Preceding unsigned comment added by DocOfSoc (talk • contribs) 14:33, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
 * http://books.google.com/books?id=QAPi0EaJo4wC&pg=PA36&lpg=PA36&dq=JOhn+Berry,+surgery&source=bl&ots=xx4og_OHGT&sig=0fHiOQsBqDooUsOJYcnnXxFCV7g&hl=en&ei=4K9iTI2XAZK8sQOxg7CHCA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CDIQ6AEwCTgy#v=onepage&q=JOhn%20Berry%2C%20surgery&f=false
 * http://music.barnesandnoble.com/All-the-Way-to-There/John-Berry/e/618681007425
 * http://getglue.com/recording_artists/john_berry; page 7 —Preceding unsigned comment added by DocOfSoc (talk • contribs) 14:39, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

Another source
http://books.google.com/books?id=DwoEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA12&dq=%22john+berry%22+%22better+than+a+biscuit%22&hl=en&ei=WEOQTLmdJ8qHnQf708G0DA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CDgQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=%22john%20berry%22%20%22better%20than%20a%20biscuit%22&f=false

Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • (Otters want attention) 03:55, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

Since I HAVE "Better than a Biscuit", this is obviously an error!DocOfSoc (talk) 04:17, 15 September 2010 (UTC) Also, I see some copyedit issues.DocOfSoc (talk) 04:23, 15 September 2010 (UTC) You cannot just lift a phrase from an article. That is a copyright violation and a BIG no no. e.g. "JB- I started playing the guitar in 1972 and singer songwriters were pretty prevalent on the charts at the time. Anybody who wrote their own songs and played guitar: Cat Stevens, Harry Chapin, James Taylor, Jackson Browne…John Denver being my favorite. Also, prior to playing guitar, I really loved the “Philly Soul Sound” like The Shilites and The Stylists.  Namaste--DocOfSoc (talk) 06:12, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

John Berry
Good work for the most part. I have to point out a few things though:
 * This website has been determined in the past not to be a reliable source; among other things, it was ruled unreliable when I was trying to get Shenandoah to GA.
 * This is some sort of fansite and is therefore not reliable.
 * There should be no reason to use "ironically" in an article. It conveys a lack of neutrality.
 * If you'd like to help me develop the article further, I can offer some suggestions. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • (Otters want attention) 16:00, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Regarding Better Than a Biscuit: The one source says that Berry "sacrificed" the album, which sure sounds like "went unreleased" to me. p_product=LVRB&p_theme=lvrb&p_action=search&p_maxdocs=200&p_topdoc=1&p_text_direct-0=0FD3918B8411C869&p_field_direct-0=document_id&p_perpage=10&p_sort=YMD_date:D&s_trackval=GooglePM This source says that radio stations got promo copies, but that the album itself wasn't truly released. Most likely, you have an advance copy. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • (Otters want attention) 16:24, 15 September 2010
 * You are ASSUMiNG "sacrificed" means"not released" CMT says it was. CMT is a much better source than a newspaper. I bought the CD at a concert, it was not a promo, What actually happened was a limited release. Better Than a Biscuit, Label: Capitol/EMI Records Released: 9/8/98 —Preceding unsigned comment added by DocOfSoc (talk • contribs) 11:20, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

The appropriate place for this discussion is here, not on my user page. YOu to me, said "good work for the most part" who the heck are you? I rewrote an abysmal article. DocOfSoc (talk) 01:35, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
 * 1 you have not addressed your copyright issues.
 * 2 an adverb has noting to do with neutrality.:ironically: adverb, in an ironic manner, used to denote a paradoxical, unexpected, or coincidental situation.
 * 3 YOU said " If you'd like to help me develop the article further, I can offer some suggestions" Apparently, you have "ownership issues. See |Ownership
 * 4 I know when and where got my copy of BTAB and have provided a viable source.
 * 5I have some concern about your IPOV. —Preceding unsigned comment added by DocOfSoc (talk • contribs) 00:27, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
 * 6 "Had went""?? poor english. not the first time
 * When did I use "had went"? Also, I say "good work on the article" and you act like I insulted you. What's up with that? Are you not aware that this is supposed to be a community thing? Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • (Otters want attention) 02:26, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
 * "Good work for the most part" is not a compliment. "Help *you* develop the article. That does not imply teamwork! —Preceding unsigned comment added by DocOfSoc (talk • contribs) 11:20, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

DocOfSoc asked me to drop by. First, thanks for everyone who's improved the article. Second, I don't see what the copyright issue is - what's the source and what's the text? As for irony, an assertion that a particular event is ironic doesn't really belong in an encyclopedia because it's a judgement call. If there is a specific source, we might quote that source with attribution, but I wouldn't be in a hurry to do so.  Will Beback   talk    04:08, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I rewrote one of the sentences. "nightmare" is not really appropriate commentary unless it is a verifiable fact or we are directly quoting. Also the sentence was misleading and not very factual (more opinion). Anyway; "ironically" comes under WP:WEASEL as the sort of language to avoid like the plague. Just my 2p. --Errant[tmorton166] $(chat!)$ 08:54, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Please stop editing out fact, as seen in the reference and replacing with your interpretation.  If you would like to work as a team, it would be beneficial to discuss changes here first Namaste--DocOfSoc (talk) 11:20, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
 * There is no need to be like that! I usually just follow WP:BRD. Anyway; what I have removed is not supported in any sources that I can see. The CD source is very very marginal as a primary source; we should keep its use a light as possible. For example; I assume the stuff about the motorcycle and doctors in the section about the accident came from the album? Which is a classic example of WP:PRIMARY, I removed the detail as unsourced because, at that point it was. --Errant[tmorton166] $(chat!)$ 11:26, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh Dear Errant, I was not criticizing you!! I should have said" Dear Hammer, you have deleted perfectly good sentences and worse yet, the CITATIONS! Sleepily yours, Joy aka DocOfSoc (talk) 12:53, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Bleh, uh. I don;t have the "awake" late excuse... so lets go with... my boss was shouting at me when I read it and I got confused (or something) :P --Errant[tmorton166] $(chat!)$ 13:01, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

#2 hit
The bit which talks about his hits (i.e. #2 hit that year etc.) where were they hits. The US? Nationally or regionally? It isn't 100% clear. --Errant[tmorton166] $(chat!)$ 09:22, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Robin
He wrote a song "Sanctuary," dedicated to Robin., this sentence strikes me as marginal. The reason being that the source says: "One of the best stories on the CD is how John got to go to France to go to a songwriter's retreat. John compared it to going to band camp and how he had a great time with these songwriters. John's wife, Robin, who also sings with him at his shows, interjects that the family didn't go with him and John then says he did write a song for her." It's not clear that the song is dedicated to Robin, to me it reads ambiguously that either a) he did write it in dedication to her (but we can't really say that because it is not sourced) or b) that it is related to the fact that she didn't go to the writers retreat (so he wrote a song for her) --Errant[tmorton166] $(chat!)$ 09:36, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

The Best source is the actual CD, where john himself recounts all the details. To me, it's like referring to a book that you would have to go find and read for the reference. All the cuts are available on ITunes for 99 cents BTW and quite entertaining. ;-) My favorite quote we can't use is" Boy's you write a song like that you will get some sugar " ;-) DocOfSoc (talk) 10:38, 16 September 2010 (UTC) DocOfSoc (talk) 10:38, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmm, we have to be a bit careful there. I'd recommend avoiding that as a source where possible due to WP:PRIMARY. --Errant[tmorton166] $(chat!)$ 10:40, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Musician guide
I've asked for comments on this source as a reliable source on the RS/N (discussion). Seeing as it is disputed as a RS above it seems worth getting outside input (especially as portions of the article seem to be based on it and not sourceable elsewhere) --Errant[tmorton166] $(chat!)$ 10:07, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Edits
I have politely requested that you discuss here before making any major changes. You disregarded that request even to the point of saying that bot generated sources are not up to your standards. If you want community or teamwork, you have to engage first gear. You can see I put a LOT of work on this page, most of which you reverted. That is not teamwork. Please make no more changes. Errant spotted your copy right issues right off. In Good Faith I tried to fix that. I left the "unreleased', even though I have an equally valid source that says it was released. Again you seem to have ownership issues. I am not here to help you, I am attempting to facilitate team work and not have all my work negated. What part of this do you not understand? DocOfSoc (talk) 20:25, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

John Berry again

 * Can we at least keep the references out of the lead? That info seems like it'd be better suited elsewhere, since it doesn't really summarize. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • (Otters want attention) 21:02, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I shifted it back on the following rationale:
 * It summarizes his style, voice and music; it is quite common to put quotes about a person in the lead for summary/context
 * It is fine to cite in the lead - and as they are quotes they must be cited inline wherever they go
 * A one sentence section looked lonely out on its own
 * I think this way round the article reads much better and gives us a good intro to Berry. --Errant[tmorton166] $(chat!)$ 21:32, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay. I still think that info would be better suited for a more extensive section on his musical stylings (see, for instance, the similar section in Clay Walker, which is GA), but for now it's probably fine there. Also, I replaced the one iTunes link with the original from Allmusic, since the iTunes link was just a mirror of the Allmusic review. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • (Otters want attention) 21:39, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, some of the edits Hammer made were reasonable. Particularly the removal of musicianguide.com - I forgot to leave a note but it was discussed as WP:RS/N and decided that it was not a reliable source. On the other hand moving the quotes down I thought broke the article flow (so I reversed that again :)). In terms of the article it does not appear to actually have been released, but very limited copies are available somehow (there is one on Amazon for $200ish). I checked on one of the music industry databases that I can get into via work and it is listed... but under "presse release" - which usually means only example presses were ever made. It's also flagged as "generally fraudulent". The theory I have is that it was pressed in a very limited run for the artist who then distributed them OR it was done as a super limited run for the "indie" music shop market (this is quite common for country artists in the US I believe). Conclusion; unless we can verify and nail a source that is definite on this there should probably be no mention of it in the article (either as unreleased or otherwise). I can;t find a reliable source that says it was released and how - and the source that says it was not released clearly fails WP:V --Errant[tmorton166] $(chat!)$ 21:26, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I called John's office and indeed BTB was a limited release. Oh and thanks for forgetting to tell me about the link...sheeesh! LOL.! OK I tried, apparently you read my post and 10 Hammers ignored it. Snarky comments in the edit summary are inappropriate esp. when the ownership issues are obviously not mine as i pointed out. Gotta run, finish later. DocOfSoc (talk) 01:44, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

outta hereDocOfSoc (talk) 19:58, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Many sub-articles have the same pics, what's the big deal. This page needs a pic. if you don't like this one, please go find another to replace it with, please.DocOfSoc (talk) 23:05, 5 January 2011 (UTC) Why not just add a redirect to the image for the album page? That would be awesome ;-) DocOfSoc (talk) 23:16, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

Image
Image use has been already been discussed:
 * 09:55, January 6, 2011 Doomsdayer520 (talk | contribs) (18,745 bytes) (→1992—1998: Liberty/Patriot Records and Capitol Records: using a photo in this section is fine but it is NOT the place for an album infobox, which belongs at the actual album article) (undo)

He then reformatted the picture for use on this page. Guidelines checked and OK. Cheers!  — DocOfSoc • Talk  •  22:59, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Just noticed this... It might not meet non-free content usage - I don't know. But you do need to add a specific WP:FUR to the image page or someone will just come and remove it again. --Errant (chat!) 11:38, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

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Requested move 26 January 2022

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: moved. John Berry (singer) moved to John Berry (country singer) (non-admin closure) TheBirdsShedTears (talk) 02:51, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

– Disambiguation between "X (singer)" and "X (musician)" can be confusing. Is a singer not a musician? Compare Chris Young (musician). I actually typed in "John Berry (musician)" earlier today when looking for the country music artist and got momentarily confused. As there is more than one notable John Berry who has a musical career, I feel that both John Berrys need more specific parentheticals. These are my proposals, although if someone has anything better I'm open to it. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 00:46, 26 January 2022 (UTC) The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * John Berry (singer) → John Berry (country musician)
 * John Berry (musician) → John Berry (Beastie Boys)
 * Support per nomination. Since both John Berry (singer) and John Berry (musician) appear to be incomplete disambiguations, then both should become redirects to the John Berry disambiguation page. If both have been musicians, but only the country one sings, then I would support either John Berry (singer) → John Berry (country musician), per nomination, or John Berry (singer) → John Berry (country singer). As for the co-founder of the Beastie Boys, I would also support John Berry (musician) → John Berry (hardcore punk musician), which would have a form analogous to John Berry (country musician), as proposed in the nomination for the country singer. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 07:17, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Support John Berry (country singer) and John Berry (Beastie Boys guitarist). There's nothing wrong with "singer" as a disambiguator, but if the Beastie Boys member sang too then it is incomplete disambiguation. The latter, however, seems to be better known as a guitarist (although the former also plays the guitar). I would prefer "Beastie Boys" to "hardcore punk", as I would suspect most people wouldn't know what that was. There is certainly precedent for using the band (and instrument) as a disambiguator; see WP:NCPDAB. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:06, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Support per nom, and also support whatever is the most popular disambiguator if the proposed two don't fit.--Ortizesp (talk) 16:50, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Move to John Berry (country singer) and John Berry (Beastie Boys) per WP:SINGERDAB. 162 etc. (talk) 16:59, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
 * He isn't a Beastie Boys! See the example of the two drummers in WP:NCPDAB. -- Necrothesp (talk) 11:30, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment as nominator, I support John Berry (country singer) and John Berry (Beastie Boys) as disambiguations. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 17:39, 26 January 2022 (UTC)