Talk:John Birch (missionary)

Tertiary study
The article John Birch states in 1st 'graph that "He enrolled at the Bible Baptist Seminary at Fort Worth, Texas, in 1938...". Since he is also said to have graduated from Mercer University, Macon, GA, i looked for documentation for this, and found that Arlington Baptist College claims that Dr. J. Frank Norris, a Baptist pastor "announced the formation of the Pre-Millennial Bible Conference/Southwestern Pre-Millennial Bible School" which planned two "sessions" per year, starting in November 1931 and expanded it into "Fundamental Baptist Bible Institute" in one room of the church with a term of "eight months plus a two-month summer term", starting October, 1939, then renamed it "Bible Baptist Seminary" in 1945. (All of this in Fort Worth; moved away, became ABC, went 4-yr unaccredited, in '50s.) Perhaps he took a course or two at the BBS's predecessor-once-removed PMBC/SPMBS (for two months?) in the summer of 1938.

But i'm substituting the Mercer version, pending more info; i dunno anything abt Mercer, but graduating in the middle of the academic year at 21 1/2, in GA between the wars, is for me entirely plausible for someone "named for a Rhodes scholarship" (even if that means "nominated" rather than "offered"). --Jerzy

This is erroneous. Georgia Baptist College is in Atlanta, not Macon, and did not become affiliated with Mercer University until 1972. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.82.131.117 (talk) 13:30, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

How did unsourced smear get into this entry? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Publiusohio (talk • contribs) 02:13, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

The first casualty?
Robert F. Welch is said to have referred to John Birch as "the first casualty of World War III". I don't know if it's true, wish I had time to look it up... Ellsworth 23:49, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Our article says "the first American victim of the Cold War" (emphasis supplied) which matches my recollection of the only version i've heard attributed to Welch. His killing was in Aug. 1945 per several sources, and per Encarta ten days after the war's end; the only way to harmonize those is to use the de facto in-principle surrender agreement 1945 August 14 (rather than the formal ceremony the next month), giving 1945 Aug 24 (+/- a half day?), if someone really wanted to pursue it, but IMO it's likely to devolve into arguments about what constitutes a Cold War action and about unverifiabilities, e.g., did the crash itsefl kill the crew of a WW-II crash-landed bomber on the Soviet Far East, whose crash site was sanitized by the Soviets and concealed until post-Gorbachev? --Jerzy(t) 05:34, 2004 Nov 20 (UTC)


 * I'll keep my eye out. I agree there's no need to change the article now. Ellsworth 16:40, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Was John Birch real?
The first comment on the Talk:Robert W. Welch Jr. page questions his existence, and today there is an Ask Metafilter question about the same thing. It sounds like this is something worth mentioning in the main article (ideally, with information that supports or debunks the assertion that he is ficticious).
 * I've updated the article with confirmation from a presumably unimpeachable source, Gen. Jimmy Doolittle, who was helped by Birch and got him started in intelligence work. --Dhartung | Talk 09:31, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Dhartung - thanks for adding all the other information. I think it's clear, upon reading the article (as it now reads), that John Birch was indeed real; accordingly, there isn't any reason to have a section in the article (or any mention, really) of the question of his reality. John Broughton 19:04, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your own expansion. I'll just put in here my concerns that the Hefler book possibly (and the New American profile absolutely) take highly POV positions on Birch. There seem to be serious questions about the circumstances of his death, for example. One would need physical access to the after-action report at the National Archives to confirm certain facts, but absent that we should probably be more cautious on a few points. --Dhartung | Talk 07:31, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

Housing project
Does anyone have a reference for this "housing project outside Boston"? I'm a Bostonian and I haven't heard of this. Ubermonkey 17:55, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Ah, here it is: Google Maps... Cross-streets are American Way, Victory Lane, and Christian Circle. Heh.  Ubermonkey 18:00, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Removal of sourced and relevant quote
I restored the quote from Time Magazine, which was anonymously removed under the misunderstanding that it was a smear (which I don't think it was, it was the reminiscence of a classmate) and unsourced, which it was not. ch (talk) 07:20, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Remove No References and Sources Tag?
Since the article now contains references and sources, should we remove the tag? Unless anyone objects, I will do so in a week or so. ch (talk) 05:16, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Executed?
If I understand correctly, Birch was armed and refused to surrender his revolver. Killing an armed man is hardly a execution. IMO, the infobox should be fixed accordingly.--Paul Siebert (talk) 22:57, 7 August 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree; it was not an execution. According to autopsy results, he was shot in the leg, then, with his hands tied behind him, was shot in the back of the head, "execution-style". In an apparent attempt to hide the identity of the corpse, his assailants mutilated his face by slashing it with knives.  The war was over, so this death did not occur on the field of battle.  The only way to describe it is torture and murder.  The facts surrounding his death have been known since U.S. Senator William F. Knowland made a speech on the floor of the U.S. Senate on this matter in September 1950. &mdash; QuicksilverT @ 16:52, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Why are you writing those details here, and not in the article? - 124.191.144.183 (talk) 13:40, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

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Offensive term "coolies"
Though I understand the need to identify racist terms in their own right, they should not be repeated and cited in other articles.

The use of the term "coolies" is racist and offensive when describing the people involved in the funeral procession.

69.180.161.105 (talk) 00:05, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

OSS Coverup Missing?
It is well documented that a) an OSS officer who was sympathetic to Mao informed the communists of Birch's whereabouts, and b) The Communists hated Birch because he was so well liked among the Chinese peasantry from his missionary work as well as work with them during the war against the Japanese, and c) the OSS classified his shooting by Mao's communists because the OSS was directed by Alger Hiss the subsequently convicted soviet spy in the Roosevelt and Truman administrations to do so for "diplomatic reasons" and that it took several years and a Senate investigation to unseal the file on Birch's death to his own family. The scandal resulting was one of the things that lead to the later McCarthyist era rooting communist spies out of the US government. I don't have the time to bother writing this all up, and I'm not interested in dealing with all the politics of wikieditor edit wars, so if someone who does like those things cares to investigate and source all this, I think Birch's own family would appreciate it. 2601:185:8200:3890:353A:E270:17CF:7684 (talk) 18:03, 31 October 2021 (UTC)