Talk:John Cale/Archive 1

Noise music
Though best known for his work in rock music, Cale has worked in various genres including drone, noise and classical.

Contradicting this, none of his albums are labeled as noise music on their respective pages. The closest Cale has ever come to true noise that I am aware of is Day of Niagara with La Monte Young's Dream Syndicate, and even that should more rightly be called minimalist/drone (which the corresponding article does indeed label it as such). I feel that all references to Cale being a noise musician should be removed for the sake of accuracy and even-mindedness. 62 Misfit (talk) 21:01, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

"Bryter Layter"
It's actually well known that Cale performed on Nick Drake's 1970 release "Bryter Layter."--Kwan-Trill 17:18, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

On this page because I didn't know where in the article to put it...

John Cale also performed Leonard Cohen's "Hallelujah" in the movie Shrek (2001), though the same song was performed by Rufus Wainwright on the CD soundtrack.

Also, someone might want to check out Cale's IMDb entry. Just FYI.

--User:clawson

The links to Paris 1919 redirect to the Paris Peace Conference, 1919. I don't know if the title of the record refers to this conference, but judging by the title track, I'd say not.

Richard W.M. Jones 10:51, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Birthdate
Someone's changed his birthdate from March 9, 1942 to December 4, 1942, and then again to December 4, 1940. IMDB has it as December 9, 1940. Which of the four is correct? (This also wrecks the bit about Lou Reed being a week older.) Dyfsunctional 15:19, 2 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Christopher Parham has put in December 4, 1940. Fine, but since this seems to be a bit cloudy, can we please have a source for this? Dyfsunctional 17:37, 4 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Oops, it's 82.30.8.156 who keeps putting in the date. I've taken it out again until this is resolved. Dyfsunctional 17:40, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Sigh. So far, we've seen the following birthdays put in the article (mostly by anonymous users): And, as mentioned above, IMDB has December 9, 1940, which has never been inserted. The pattern of edits and the anonymous IP addresses suggest to me that the same user is deliberately messing with the article, likely as an act of vandalism. (Also, whoever's doing it refuses to address the issue on the talk page or in an edit summary.) Once again, I'm taking the date out, but I propose we go with the IMDB date, since that's the only one that has any shred of verifiability. Dyfsunctional 14:11, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
 * March 9, 1940
 * December 4, 1940 (twice)
 * December 5, 1940
 * March 9, 1942 (twice)
 * December 4, 1942


 * I love IMDB, but their bio information is often VERY wrong. When I was doing a term paper on Yoko Ono, I planned to use the site as a source, but more verifiable sources often conflicted with IMDB's info. I think their info is mostly user-submitted and not fact-checked. (I still value them as a source on movies, just not on people.) Check out the best John Cale fan site I've found: Fear Is a Man's Best Friend - Bio. They list March 9, 1942. Allmusic lists the same date, and I find their info to usually be accurate. For non-English musicians and bands, they are often wrong or just missing info, but for English and American people, it's pretty good. Actually, when I look at Cale's general IMDB page, it tells me March 9, 1940. Folkor 06:01, 22 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I have a hold at my local library on Cale's autobiography, What's Welsh for Zen?. I figure that ought to be the definitive source, and technically (I hope) it's not original research since it can be independently verified. Dyfsunctional 19:06, 22 February 2006 (UTC)


 * OK, mystery solved. From What's Welsh for Zen?:


 * I was born on 9 March 1942 in Garnant, between Swansea and Carmarthen, South Wales. Some 3,000 miles away in Brooklyn, New York, Louis Reed had been born one week earlier, on the 2nd.


 * I always knew he had an edge on me!


 * I've updated the page with this date. Dyfsunctional 21:47, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

I think / believe (after all the research I can muster) you will find - and it might take until his death to prove it - that he was born 9 March 1940.

Derek R Bullamore 00:40, 26 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Not Logged on, but can confirm the above quote from What's Welsh for Zen? is the first sentence of Cale's Autobiography, and he should know. And in the 1998 BBC Wales documentary on Cale distributed by Kultur his father is interviewed, certainly not a deaf mute, but a retired coal miner.

Deaf mute parents?
Cale people correct me if I err, but I read that both Cale's parents are deaf mutes! If so that should get in there somewhere!
 * I think you err! BTLizard 09:41, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
 * This isn't true. Cale's parents were not deaf mutes but Welsh-speakers. Lexo 13:13, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
 * It was just one of Nico's jokes. Tigerman2005 (talk) 07:13, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Cale influenced Hedwig???
The idea that Cale's voice influenced John Cameron Mitchell's accent as Hedwig is a bit ridiculous. Cale has a Welsh accent, Hedwig is German. I realise that to some Americans Welsh and German might sound similar, but they're not. Mitchell and Trask might have been fans of Cale's music but I seriously doubt that the way Cale speaks influenced the way Hedwig speaks. Lexo 13:12, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Native language(s)
"John Cale was born in Garnant in the heavily industrial Amman Valley, and Welsh is his first language." This implies that Welsh is his ONLY first language, and therefore that he learned English as a foreign language, which seems unlikely. Lfh (talk) 18:39, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

"Welshcore" and "Sushertonics"???
I removed the above two as well as "Susherton" from the infobox, as they don't seem to exist outside of this article – except perhaps as an injoke. If anyone decides to re-insert them, please give a reason (and a definition would be nice, too). -- 87.165.214.39 (talk) 15:19, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Cale interview, profile 1975
If anyone would like to use this as a link or source, here is a Cale interview from NME regarding a show in Amsterdam. (Full disclosure: I work at Crawdaddy! where this interview was republished. But to abide by COI guidelines I am not posting the link on the article, just providing it for any editor that may find it useful.) John Cale: Paradiso, Amsterdam Asst. Editor, Crawdaddy! FenderRhodesScholar | Talk 22:00, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Trilogy?
The following sentence isn't perfectly accurate:

Of his solo work, Cale is perhaps best known for his mid-1970s trilogy of albums: Paris 1919, Fear and Slow Dazzle.

Fear, Slow Dazzle, and Helen of Troy constitute what's often referred to as his "Island Trilogy." Paris 1919 might arguably be slightly better known than Helen of Troy, (I really don't have any data to answer that) but the three albums listed don't constitute a "trilogy" in any sense, except possibly sequence. It would be better to rephrase:

Of his solo work, Cale is perhaps best known for his album Paris 1919 plus his mid-1970s Island trilogy of albums: Fear, Slow Dazzle, and Helen of Troy.

...

I've made the edit. I see on the Helen of Troy page that there was some controversy regarding the release of the album. I'd argue that whether Cale was happy with the release is a separate issue from the narrow concern I've tried to address. —Preceding unsigned comment added by MaxFlux (talk • contribs) 23:57, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

'deutsch national television' (sic)
If 'German' is meant, then it should say so, & I will alter it... Rothorpe (talk) 06:22, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Hedwig?
The following has had a fact tag attached since June '07, which is more than long enough for it to have been sourced:


 * John Cameron Mitchell paid tribute to Cale in the 1998 off-Broadway and 2001 film versions of the rock musical Hedwig and the Angry Inch. As the title character, Mitchell employed a vocal affect and cadence that imitate Cale's, particularly his spoken word performance on "The Gift" from the 1968 Velvet Underground album White Light/White Heat.

If there is any basis in fact for this, it can be sourced and put back in. At this point, it seems dubious. ---  RepublicanJacobite  The'FortyFive' 16:59, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Put new sources here-- NOT in the External links section of an article
I have moved the following sources here, which is where they belong per WP:MOS. References do not belong in the External links section, but people seem to think it a parking lot for new sources. Wrong. Please put sources here. Once you are sure the source has been "used up" in the article, just cross it off like this ! Also, Wikipedia policy --only rely on reliable sources. Blogs, Fan sites, rtc. do not qualify, b/c of POV problems. I didn't check out the validity of the souces I've moved here from the former link farm. One is a fan site. Normally, don't keep fan sites. I kept it b/c they aren't reliable but sometimes they have links to really reliable sources. Thanks. --Leahtwosaints (talk) 23:49, 1 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Fear Is A Man's Best Friend extensive fan site
 * UbuWeb: John Cale featuring music from Aspen No. 5+6
 * Album by album interview from 2003 - BROKEN LINK
 * John Cale Interview John Cale Interview - BROKEN LINK
 * Essay on Cale in Examinations Archive
 * Fragments of Cale, track-by-track review of Cale's work BLOG
 * John Cale biography from BBC Wales
 * John Cale Sydney Festival 2010 Address ABC Big Ideas
 * John Cale on BBC Radio Desert Island Discs
 * John Cale Sydney Festival 2010 Address ABC Big Ideas
 * John Cale on BBC Radio Desert Island Discs
 * John Cale on BBC Radio Desert Island Discs

Website
The website linked to from this article is not his official website; it's a placeholder page. xander (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 00:20, 2 April 2011 (UTC).

Why not to mention the song Spinning Around — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.153.2.184 (talk) 19:51, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 20:08, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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complete discog?
In 1977 I found a piece of vinyl in a shop that was called something like "Income Tax"(?) and featured John Cale. It was bland folk music as far as I can remember, and I sold it to my physics teacher. I wish I could remember when it was recorded (early 1960s?). Does it ring a bell with anyone? Vince Calegon (talk) 15:25, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
 * He played on an album by Dutch folky band Tax Free (Wally Tax's post-Outsiders band). Maybe? --Marek Koudelka (talk) 18:10, 11 December 2018 (UTC)

Well done! **Tax Free** Vince Calegon (talk) 17:14, 19 December 2018 (UTC)