Talk:John Company (board game)

Response to request for citations for game cards
Responding to the request for citations for the references to the game cards, CohentheBohemian and I discussed this point in the DYK review. I suggested adding cites for passages that referred to the rules themselves, which was done, but the request for cites seems to be asking for cites for the content of the game cards, as I understand it from the game description. I think WP:NOTCITE would apply there:
 * If the subject of the article is a book or film or other artistic work, it is unnecessary to cite a source in describing events or other details. It should be obvious to potential readers that the subject of the article is the source of the information.

I appreciate that the game cards apparently are summarising historical materials, but that is within the context of the game, not as statements of history from a source like a text book. That would need a cite, but here, since this article summarises the game, it seems appropriate to describe the cards as they are set out for game purposes, but not treat them as needing a cite as if they were historical materials. Within the game's universe, these are the parameters. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 15:52, 30 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Thinking about this issue more, I think it’s also relevant that the game designer characterized the game as « historical fiction », presented from a satirical viewpoint. It’s not meant to be a history text, and the game designer’s take on the history doesn’t need citations, anymore than other historical fiction needs cites. The article is describing the game in that context, and expressly states that the designer considered it historical fiction, so a reader of the article shouldn’t take it as a historical text that needs to be backed up by cites. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 13:31, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
 * There are 5 CN tags in the article right now:
 * 1) Historical background section
 * 2) Paragraph 1 of Art section
 * 3) Paragraph 2 of Art section
 * 4) Game as historical fiction section
 * 5) Paragraph 1 of Release history section
 * I am not sure how to deal with them or if they require dealing with. As all the tags are at the bottom of paragraphs, it's hard to tell if they refer to a single claim or the whole paragraph.
 * 2) and 5) both seem to be questioning statements about art, but I think these are plain descriptions of the game materials and therefore don't need citations per MOS:PLOT. Also, I'm not sure how to cite them beyond a footnote reading "look at the cards/box", which seems pointless. For the record, here are the portraits of Hastings and Abercrombie; here's the first edition box cover and here's the game cards  (page 7).
 * 3) and 4) seem to be questioning the Punch cartoon Company Failure card and the Obra Dinn ship token respectively. In this case I think that not only does MOS:PLOT apply, but that these statements effectively cite themselves; you can look at the cards/tokens the sentence mentions. Nor do I think the Punch card is a problematic example of close paraphrasis.
 * I am not sure what 1) is saying needs citations. It seems clear to me that a game card reducing the value of rotten boroughs is a reference to the Great Reform Act, and so on. Or is there an issue with the whole paragraph? @Z1720, please let us know if I'm misunderstanding you, so we can improve the article together. CohenTheBohemian (talk) 12:47, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
 * A citation should be placed after all the text that the citation verifies. If there is a cn tag, all the text that proceeds it until the previous citation needs to be verified.
 * While it might be clear to you that cards are representations of things (like the Great Reform Act) Wikipedia cannot make that claim unless a source has stated this in order to avoid original research. If the card said "This is a depiction of the Great Reform Act" or something similar, than I think we could use WP:PLOT and not have it cited. If not, then we need to find a source that verifies that statement or the information should be removed. Z1720 (talk) 14:48, 16 November 2023 (UTC)