Talk:John Denver/Archive 1

"The too long tag"
I think the "too long" tag is silly. When I read it, I expected it to take an indefinite time to even scroll down. Instead, it's a compact four pages in you printed it out, approximately. Less than ten lines comprise a number of the sections. Lacks a variety of potentially helpful information. --moabalan —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.190.181.13 (talk) 14:11, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

About his parents
I think that it would be useful to at least list his parents' home towns. I saw a recent TV documentary that said that his grandmother who gave him his first guitar was a Texan. This might give a slight insight into where Denver's somewhat country & western influences in his music came from. There is just a hint of this in his songs like "Country Roads", etc.

Also, I made a few changes towards accuracy about his father's background. (I don't know anything about his mother. Someone else ought to provide more information about her. For example, is she still alive?) But someone blatently reverted it w/o paying any attention to the facts. So, I will beat it to death now. His father was a USAF pilot. Under USAF doctrine and policy, all of its pilots are qualified for flying all types of its airplanes, under whatever duties, including combat. (In other words, they say, "Every pilot is a fighter pilot.") So, to say that someone was a "flight instructor" is inaccurate and somewhat insulting to Denver's father. Some pilots do pilot instructing, but they are qualified to fly fighters, bombers, transports, of all types. (Perhaps with additional training in the specific type, but qualified, nevertheless.)

On the other hand, the US Navy and Marine Corps does it different. Their pilots split into two tracks in training. On is the track for fighters, bombers, S-3 Viking, etc., mostly for aircraft carriers. The other track is for large, multi-engine airplanes, such as the P-3 Orion and the C-130 Hercules, which are used from land bases and for missions like ocean patroling and transporting cargo and passengers.

The Navy also has a separate helicopter school for training pilots of those for ship-based operations, which is quite a bit different from land-based operations. The Navy not only has helicopters on aircraft carriers, but also on cruisers Ticonderoga-class, destroyers Arleigh Burke-class, and fast frigates Oliver Hazard Perry-class.

The Air Force also sends some of its pilots to the US Army helicopter pilot school at Ft. Rucker, Alabama. They do this so that they can fly helicopters - almost entirely for the search-and-rescue missions that the Air Force needs. I knew one of these - one of my AFROTC instructors who had flown the Air Force "Jolly Green Giant" helicopters over Vietnam to rescue shot down and crashed aircrews. He had been a fixed-wing pilot before that.

So, to be a flight instructor is a good thing, but Air Force pilots do ever so much more than that, and being an instructor pilot (the USAF terminology) is generally only a part of a pilot's career in either the USAF, the Navy, or the Marine Corps. So, being an instructor pilot is a small subset of being a pilot. Also, a "flight instructor" can be someone who isn't really a pilot at all, but rather someone like an aeronautics expert who teaches aeronautics to pilots. Or electronics. Or survival skills. Likewise, there are professors who teach medical students in fields like biochemistry, but they aren't medical doctors themselves. See Dr. Isaac Asimov, a biochemist who taught at the Boston University Medical School for a period of years, before becoming a full-time writer. So, he was a "doctor instructor" w/o being a medical doctor.74.249.87.203 (talk) 03:26, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

John Denver's father also held several world records in flying. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.174.245.207 (talk) 16:37, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

First comment
Filled in the discography info and made a few other changes. Mkrose

Death
I read a lot of stories on John Denver's Death.

The first Mass Media report said that he was drunk.

The final report stated that he was died while switching fuel tanks in a plane that got 5,000 miles per gallon while an eyewitness stated that she heard a pop and saw a puff of smoke. Just after John Denver took off.

This happened a few months after he saved the artic wildlife refuge from oil thugs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by DarkCorners (talk • contribs) 04:22, 24 October 2004

I feel there is an error in this section. This article lists the aircraft registration as N555JD. Entering this number into the National Transportation Safety Board aviation accident database will not return Denver's aircraft, but instead a Robinson R44 helicopter. I will try to find the correct tail number, and put it in. If anyone claims that this (N555JD) is the correct tail number, please correct me. NozeDive 13:54, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

I deleted the above statement. Another search revealed that the registration was used at least twice. NozeDive 14:04, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

This section does not give much info on the actual circumstances of the accident. It talks about the crash as if I should know what happened. Also, reference the above comment, I would really like to hear more about this magical plane that gets 5,000 miles per gallon... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.54.8.46 (talk) 19:05, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Also worth noting, is that the Long-EZ is not an experimental aircraft, as the article incorrectly states. 85.228.171.42 (talk) 06:10, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

Religion
Does anyone know what his religious background was? --Contrib 16:49, 4 May 2005 (UTC)


 * Lutheran

he also stated that though he was Christian he believed that his thoughts and feelings tened to be closer to that of a Zen Buddhist, which is easy to see

Im sorry to mess this page around but does anyone know a poem that John did on peace? I think it went something like this "If peace is what we belive in and peace the we know  peace the way we grow" Paul.

@Paul: That is called The Peace Poem.WikiJerod (talk) 21:59, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

I'm not sure that he was a Lutheran. Correct me if I am wrong, but I remember reading (in his autobiography) that John and Annie were married in a Lutheran church in Minnesota. They met at Gustavus Adolphus in St. Peter where he was performing. Other than that I cannot find any reference to him being a Lutheran.WikiJerod (talk) 22:02, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Chainsaw?
I read once in a biography he attacked his wife with a chainsaw, is that true? --Kassie


 * Googling I found that while he was on tour once, his wife had his favorite stand of Oaks cut down. When he returned, he took a chainsaw and cut their bedroom furniture in half.  That's the closest thing I can find to "attacking his wife with a chainsaw."  I found the same story on several sites.


 * Sign your posts. I added yours above, but you can do this with 3 or 4 tildes (  or ~ ).  The latter is preferred since it also adds a timestamp.   &mdash; Frecklefoot | Talk 14:24, August 9, 2005 (UTC)

The above users right. I watched a film which was a remake of his life. He just cut into their wooden bed with a chainsaw. Wasn't an attack on his wife. --Jam_MastaJ

thats true, he was very hurt over the whole devorce and cutting his trees which i think were Aspens not oaks, down was a huge chip on his shoulder. so he made a plan to go back and confront her about it, he just cut some furnature, which he hated, up, and scared her a bit...he felt purged but also kind of bad afterwards.

A complete account(if rather onesided,and in my opinion,somewhat pompous) of the incident can be found in Denver's autobiography,"Take Me Home."In it he states that Annie had cut down the trees in his absence,which upset him greatly.He states in the book that the trees had been part of the reason he loved the property,and their removal felt like a personal violation.Annie had been in charge of the interior decoration,including the inclusion of purple bedhead"which I never liked." According to Denver,she had also been 'something of a socialite' famous for her entertaining."Her guests might not know me,but they would know my handiwork".He quit when the blade got caught in the bed sheets.He felt greatly ashamed of himself later for being capable of that kind of anger.Annie herself has been graciously silent on the matter,and has spoken with affection in many interviews about her late ex-husband,suggesting that what occurred had been long forgiven. added by user 'Fluffy 67'. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.236.66.96 (talk) 00:41, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

minor points in "Related artists" section
In the "Related artists" sections, it states:

He recorded three albums with the Mitchell Trio, replacing Chad Mitchell himself as lead singer. His group Denver, Boise and Johnson released a single before he moved on to a solo career.

But at Chad Mitchell Trio the discography shows only two albums with Mitchell. I don't know which is correct.

The third album listed may have been one that was put together from unreleased recordings after Denver became popular. There is also this in the article

Denver sang in the smoky underground folk clubs in L.A., and in 1965 joined the Chad Mitchell Trio, a folk group later renamed "The Mitchell Trio" and then "Denver, Boise, and Johnson".

I believe at the time Denver joined the group it was renamed "The Mitchell Trio", not after he joined. I saw them in concert at Texas Tech in 1965 and they were named the "The Mitchell Trio" at that time. Little did I know the new guy would go onto to such success. WAB Houston 05:13, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Wasnt there another Album that he reliced right near his time of death. It had a train on the cover I forget the name.

The album name was "All Aboard" 1997 was when it was released or by whom.

Pilot "License"
The sentence "It should be noted that Denver was flying with a suspensed pilot's license due to his prior alcohol abuse." does not belong in this article. He was not flying with a suspended pilot license. The issue concerns his MEDICAL certificate. The FAA had sent him a letter stating "If you do not wish to voluntarily return your (medical) certificate, your file may be sent to our regional office for appropriate action." They asked him to give it up, he didn't acknowlege the request, so the implied threat is that they would revoke his medical certificate. Please do not add inaccurate information to this article. Mexcellent 06:55, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Being 'medically disqualified' is the same thing as having your license suspended. According to the FAA and the NTSB accident report, he did not meet the medical standards prescribed in Part 67 of the Federal Aviation Regulations, and a determination was made that he was not qualified for any class of medical certificate at that time. Check-Six 17:47, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
 * No, it is not the same thing at all. Your medical certificate and pilot certificate are two separate certificates, you can lose one without losing the other. His pilot certificate was in no way suspended, surrendered, or revoked at the time of the accident, only his medical certificate was in question. Mexcellent 18:38, 5 February 2006 (UTC)


 * To use a cliche, it is two sides of the same coin! The fact is, according to the FAA, he should not have been flying due to his medicial condition (history of alcohol abuse).  'Suspended' may be too harsh a word, but it is a true statement nevertheless. Check-Six 18:49, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Okay, how about we use this in the article: "Prior to the accident, the FAA found that he did not meet the medical standards prescribed in Part 67 of the Federal Aviation Regulations, and a determination was made that he was not qualified for any class of medical at the time. At least a third-class medical was required to exercise the privileges of his pilot certificate"
 * That statement is (mostly) taken from the NTSB report, and is accurate from any point of view. It leaves off mention of his pilot certificate, yet makes the point in the article that he should not have been PIC of an aircraft. What do you think? Mexcellent 19:10, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Works for me... It's probably the most accurate statement one could make.  Check-Six 19:17, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Very good, it's been changed. Mexcellent 19:41, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
 * PIC means "Pilot In Command", and no one should go throwing around unexplained acronyms under ANY circumstances. Is that clear? For a single-seat airplane, the only person there is the PIC. For other kinds of small, dual-control airplanes, there has to be a PIC who has all of the licenses, certificates, etc., but the other person can be anyone at all, and he can fly the airplane under the supervision of a licensed and certified pilot. A larger airplane can have multiple pilots, but the chief among these is the PIC. He has total authority over the operation of the airplane, even if the President of the United States or the Chief of Staff of the Air Force is on board.74.249.87.203 (talk) 02:39, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Ahoy: Wondering if a pilot's license is even required when flying ultre-light-type aircraft. It may not be applicable if Denver had any type of pilot license if the craft being used did not require a license to operate.

While at the time at least, a license was not required to fly ultra-light aircraft, the plane Denver was flying was not an ultra-light and would have required a proper pilot license and medical certificate. Wschart 19:54, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Attention John Denver fans
There's a new template for John Denver fans(I created it):

Add it to your page with. Enjoy. Editor19841 23:22, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Leaving, On a jet plane
wouldnt it be better to put this song on its own seperate page? as an incredibly popular song which has been recorded by so many multiple artists over the years, it took me a while to find the original author, it would probably be better off with its own write up like Mack the Knife or The House of the Rising Sun. Someone even did a horrible punk rock rendition which has been featuring in television commecials recently. other popular john denver songs could also be candidates. -2 may 2006 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 141.168.58.201 (talk • contribs).


 * Firstly, welcome, 141.168.58.201! I'd encourage you to be bold and work on such an article. You might want to check out WP:SONG and WikiProject Music/Notability and Music Guidelines/Songs for guidance. Good luck! Lbbzman 12:12, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Uploading Covers
Hey, I'm no good at uploading, but am looking to upload some images      . If someone could help me out and get these images uploaded for me, that'd really help me out. I came to this page, because they're all Album Covers of John Denver's (speaking of which, I didn't find them all). Thanks. Editor19841 00:33, 18 May 2006 (UTC) - Does anyone know anything about his relationships/love life? Why hasn't that been mentioned? Was he married? When, to whom, and what happened with that?

Unsourced quotes

 * "To be human is to be nourished by the wild country."
 * "live in the song"
 * "I'm about as honest as a Denver man can be"
 * "Aspen is a life to live"
 * "The wind is the singer who sang the first song"
 * "I think I'd most like to be remembered for the fact that I stood up for what I believe in."

These quotes were added without source information. They may be restored when source info is supplied.--Blainster 22:11, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
 * The next-to-last one isn't really a quote, anyway. It's a line from one of his songs. Joyous! | Talk 23:41, 27 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Most of these are from songs. The second one is from "A Song for All Lovers".  The third one is a line from "Me and My Uncle", which was originally written and recorded by the Grateful Dead.  The fourth is from "Aspenglow".  The fifth is from "Windsong".  The last quote is from "The Wildlife Concert" DVD.  If someone wants to add that back in, they can.  I own the DVD and he definitely says that in one of the interview clips near the end. | Casey —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 129.62.119.195 (talk) 05:33, 23 February 2007 (UTC).

GA Nominee suggestions
Hi, I'm not comfortable being a good article evaluator, yet, just practicing, so am not going to put this article on pass/fail/hold, but one of my articles just survived the process, so I thought I'd give you a couple hints: You need a LOT more source material! Lack of footnotes and references is going to be an issue for this article and could get it placed on hold or even failed. It's a PIA to do the sourcing, but it seems to matter a lot to the reviewers. As an example, look at the sourcing that was done with the article on Cat Stevens, an artist of the same time period and a similar genre, which passed GA criteria. I also wonder if you need to list all the singles, or if you could move them to the discography that exists elsewhere. They seem to frown on excessive lists. Good luck! Montanabw 07:36, 6 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Definitely needs more inline citations. Also, the Popular Culture section needs conversion into prose, a stray away from its listy format. LuciferMorgan 00:52, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Failed GA:

Thank you for submitting the article. The article appears to be well written, but criteria #2 for GAs are that it must be possible to trace its references, to verify that reliable sources are used. Unfortunately that is not possible with this article. You are welcome to resubmit when this concern has been addressed.

Fred-Chess 15:26, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Annie's Song
This article states: "Anne, the mother of two of his three children, was the subject of his much-beloved hit "Annie's Song", which was written by Denver during a hike in a state park near New Ulm, Minnesota." If you click through to the Annie's Song article, it states: "Annie's Song" was written as an ode to Denver's then-wife, Annie Denver (Annie Martel). The two had started to come apart following his sudden success, and had separated when he took a trip to Switzerland. While on a ski lift by himself, Denver started to marvel the beauty around, and, thinking about his wife back at home, penned the song in a few minutes." Tjvweb 04:33, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

In an America Online's CENTER STAGE live online chat featuring John Denver (8/2/95) the following exchange occurs: "Question: Where did you get the inspiration for "Annie's Song?" My husband and I feel like the chorus was written about us. "JohnDLive: The song came to me one day when I was skiing. I tell the whole story in my autobiography Take Me Home.'" I haven't read the book so I can't correct the article(s), but perhaps someone who has read it can help. Tjvweb 19:01, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

This situation has now been corrected. Tjvweb 18:45, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

John Denver?
The image Image:JohnDenverAtRedRocks.jpg doesn't really look like John Denver. Is it possible that it's a case of mistaken identity, and that the photo is actually of someone else? Jude (talk) 12:58, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

I have to agree. I am pretty sure that is not John, face structure is a bit off, and John's hair was straight and thats fairly fuzzy/frilly. Count this as a vote for removal if we can get a consensus Dureo 18:19, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

I have read several articles lately that had pictures of well-known John Denver Impersonators(e.g Little John,John Adams) labelled as being those of JD.I have had fans vigorously argue with me that I was wrong until I produced a link with the original photo and they had to concede defeat.John had a very distinctive face.Despite John's varied appearance over the years re his weight,hair,glasses etc,the tribute artists depicted were noticably heavier,lacking the fine bone structure,wide smile,triangular face etc that a true Denver fan should recognize on sight.How could they get it so wrong? _Fluffy 67 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.236.66.96 (talk) 00:52, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Slap Fighting
At the end of the later carrier section it mentions drunken slap fighting. Slap fighting? Realy? Spanner3 19:45, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
 * It was vandalism and has been removed. --Blainster 22:02, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps could be more objective
This entry seems to be written by fans rather than by objective wiki-folks. I don't think it is a bad entry, but it just has the feel of something composed by someone who wants to list all of Denver's achievements. This seems fairly typical of a number of entries written about living or recently deceased entertainment figures. While I do enjoy Denver's music, he seems deserving a more balanced entry. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Special:Contributions/ (talk)


 * Along these lines, there should be some treatment of his substance (alcohol?) abuse problems.LCP 21:44, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

I added to the article 2 things I felt were important: the contribution of Jerry Weintraub to Denver's career,and the importance of television in the making of that career.Few television shows were listed,and I have expanded that section too. fluffy 67 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.236.66.96 (talk) 00:57, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Gasoline hoarding
One of the more interesting rumors that flared during the 1970s gas crisis was that Denver was hoarding gasoline on his property. I cannot find any corroborating articles other than other sites parroting the same rumor. Group29 20:58, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

I remember this happening in the 70's and remember the phrase "The Sheik of Starwood" being applied to John. I'm trying to track down a newspaper article also. --13:14, 8 October 2007 (UTC)216.23.53.192 Actually, I have PDF's of two collaborating newspaper articles about the hoarding, which was not a rumor. I've got to figure out how to post them on here. --216.23.53.192 00:11, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

I think the article is incomplete without citing the movies he appeared in as an actor -- see http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000135/ 72.70.19.122 (talk) 20:56, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

There is a Youtube video that has his side of the story from the Phil Donahue show in 1980. Should I provide a link?WikiJerod (talk) 21:12, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

John's children
In the Wikipedia article, it states John and his first wife Annie had a child of their own, before adopting Zachary and Anna Kate. It said this child was DPS driver Sam Flatgraf. I was unaware of this, can anyone explain? Dawn —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cavaliers4me (talk • contribs) 20:55, 11 June 2008 (UTC)


 * John adopted Zachary and Anna-Kate. Jesse Belle is his only biological child. He had no other children.WikiJerod (talk) 19:50, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

PMRC
I noticed that there is no mention of his testimony against the PMRC during the hearings against rock music in 1985 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.129.150.112 (talk) 19:25, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

InfoBox and Instruments
Including "vocals," "keyboards," "violin" (properly "fiddle") in the info box is a misrepresentation. "Vocals" are not an "instrument" per se, as other musician articles demonstrate. Later in his career, JD would scratch away on the fiddle (supported, it should be noted, by a real fiddle player)on "Country Boy," and every fan has seen video of this. However, as with keyboards, a casual reader unfamiliar with JD would come away with the impression that he actually could play the latter two instruments and/or did so as a significant or regular part of his musical career. He did not. The idea of the info box is to present an overview of significance, not to include every minor detail of the article. Sensei48 (talk) 16:23, 10 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Dear user Sensei48, what makes you so sure that John Denver did not play the fiddle? While I tell you that he played the fiddle very well. Did you, dear user Sensei48, know John Denver? So from where is your claim that John Denver did not know how to play the violin? Ask some of his relatives and some of his friends: that will brush up your mind. Hans Rosenthal (ROHA) (14082008) PS: The idea of the info box is: Not to serve Wikipedia contributors like you, but to give full and true information to the Wikipedia readers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.148.83.247 (talk) 12:46, 14 August 2008 (UTC)


 * As a matter of fact, dear 84, I did know John Denver - slightly, and certainly not enough to answer this question. However, you are clearly unfamiliar with many of the rules that govern Wikipedia. One of them relates to OR -which means that even if I or you knew JD or friends well personally, information from our own experience or from them canNOT be added to an article without verification from some more publicly available and recognized source. "True information" would not mislead readers into thinking that JD was proficient on this instrument. He was self-taught on guitar (at which he was proficient) and learned basic chord-based keyboard playing the same way -he talks about these facts in his autobiography Take Me Home. He never discusses "learning" fiddle.


 * Now for some OR - I saw JD in concert 20 times over a 30 year period, and performed at the same festival with him twice. On only one occasion - in 1994 - did he attempt to play the fiddle. He did so poorly and tentatively, somewhat as he does on the video you cite.


 * Presenting the truth of this matter in the Infobox is what I am interested in - it is not "serving" me as much as your misrepresentation is a DISservice to a great artist who deserves an accurate rendering of his strengths and weaknesses in a Wikipedia article.


 * Clearly 84 does not understand Wiki procedures. By all standards and rules, I should re-revert the inclusion of the factually inaccurate term "violin" in the Infobox. However, as a matter of education for 84, we should submit this matter to a ADMIN for suggestions for proper resolution. Sensei48 (talk) 15:17, 14 August 2008 (UTC)  - And 84 - SIGN your posts. Sensei48 (talk) 15:17, 14 August 2008 (UTC)


 * That is fair. Please continue as you think you have to. But let not a so-called "Admin" decide what is wrong or right in this case, but, please, let the Wikipedia comunity have the last word. Would this be OK for you, dear user Sensei48? Hans Rosenthal (ROHA) (14082008) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.148.83.247 (talk) 15:40, 14 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Hello again 84 - The reason that I or we might ask an administrator is so that we can be sure that the resolution to our disagreement is consistent with Wikipedia requirements and guidelines. Even though Wikipedia is created and edited by the large Wikipedia community, we all have to adhere to the policies for including and providing source material for edits that we make to our articles. ADMIN are users who are chosen because of their expertise in understanding the policies and procedures, some of which can be rather complicated.


 * It has been my experience with the administrators that they are very fair - and they will not "tell" us how to resolve the dispute. Rather, they will point us to the Wiki guidelines that will inform us about the best way. So please let me see if I can find an objective administrator who has some knowledge of JD and music, just to get a good Wiki opinion.


 * And thank you 84 "Hans Rosenthal" for signing your posts! In Wikipedia, you sign your posts not with your name, but with four tildes (shift + the upper left key of a standard keyboard, if you did not know - and you probably did!). This will generate a "signature - in your case, an IP number unless you create your own user page here[]. - Jim Moran aka Sensei48 (talk) 17:59, 14 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Maybe this is what makes the difference between you and me: You, like the rest of the Wikipedia users, do never sign any contribution with your real name. While I always use my true and legal name. I am Hans Rosenthal. (ROHA) (14082008). PS: What I write, that I signe with my name, not with an "Alias". This is the problem with Wikipedia: All the contributors use an "Alias", except me. Are they so shy? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.148.82.43 (talk) 19:20, 14 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Some users and editors do use full, given names; others follow what is fairly standard internet protocol on publicly accessible websites by creating what is more properly termed a "username." Sometimes this is done to protect one's privacy to a degree, and at other times to create a cyber identity. In any event - until you register your name on the user page I linked above, your posts will not be officially "signed," even though you put your real name in the text. Notice that the computer robot "SineBot" follows your posts by "autosigning" - but your autosign is not your name - it is an IP address beginning with 84. Until you create a user name on your user page, Wikipedia can only know you officially as 84.148.82.43|84.148.82.43. Sensei48 (talk) 21:27, 14 August 2008 (UTC)


 * If Wikipedia can only know me officially as 84.148.82.43|84.148.82.43., then it is fine. As long as you and every Wikipedia user can see with their own eyes, that John Denver knows how to play the Fiddle. (Actually I meant: knew how to play it.) PS: This threat reminds me sometimes of: How can someone play a Metallica song like One without using a Guitar and the Drums: But that is easily possible, just have a look at... Apocalyptica, and then later, we come back to Fiddles and that kind of things. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.148.93.19 (talk) 06:58, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Clarifications
Regarding the edit summary 9/20/08:

a) Tensions had been simmering in the trio that Denver joined long before his arrival. The name "Chad Mitchell Trio" had been chosen by the group's amateur manager, Fr.Reinard Beaver, because he thought it was more "ear-friendly" (his words) than "Mike Kobluk Trio" or "Mike Pugh Trio" - the other two members of the original group. It had not been intended as the group's permanent name - until a sudden offer to record and perform with Harry Belafonte left the group no choice but to stick with the name that it had been known by. Chad Mitchell had a great voice but was not considered a "lead singer" - on all the group's recordings, each member had the same number of solo songs and solo verses on group songs. A year before CM left the group to start a solo career, all three agreed on the name change to "Mitchell Trio" to de-emhpasize CM's actual role. The group's last two albums with CM on Mercury - The Slightly Irreverent and Typical American Boys are both under the name Mitchell Trio, featured prominently on the dust jackets:

http://www.akh.se/mitchell/center.htm

b) The place of PP&M in JD's career deserves special but accurate mention. That trio's record of "Jet Plane" enabled Milt Okun (JD's manager and formerly CMT/MT's manager)to get his foot in the door with RCA, but it was as a singer more than a songwriter that Okun was promoting JD. In fact, on none of the four albums of the initial contract is Denver the sole songwriter of the numbers recorded, and on the first two not even the primary one. Okun believed it was the clarity of JD's voice and his onstage warmth that would lead to solo success, both of which suppositions proved true. But it wasn't until the release of "Take Me Home, Country Roads" in late 1971 as a single - from Poems,Prayers, and Promises, Denver's fourth and final album of the initial RCA contract - and its success that RCA decided to extend Denver's contract. That's more than four years after PP&M's hit with "Jet Plane," so it's not accurate to suggest that Denver's early solo success was attributable to that record, which many JD fans were later surprised to find that he had written when it was released in a new version on his Greatest Hits mega-selling album of 1973.

More surprising is the fact that "Jet Plane" was Peter, Paul and Mary's only #1 single (check the Wikilink), given the large number of genuinely excellent recordings and popular songs released by that group. IMHO, it's a testament to the excellence of the composition, the brilliance of PP&M's arrangement, and the superlative vocal performances. But JD's "success" comes too long after it for it to have been a major factor in his early success.

See the numbers:

John Denver Discography

Sensei48 (talk) 04:35, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Name
The article states that "He adopted the surname "Denver" after the capital of his favorite state,"; however, New Zealand singer John Denver Hore toured the US in the 1960s using the name "John Denver", and met John Deutschendorf, who told him he liked the named and asked if he could use it; see, e.g., :
 * John Hore released his first album in 1964 after winning a TV talent contest and touring with the Miss New Zealand show. He travelled to the United States in 1965 where he used the name John Denver (Denver was his middle name.) He allowed another artist (John Deutschendorf) to use the name when he left the States. In the 1980s he returned to the US and used the name John Grenell ... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.73.177.90 (talk) 04:01, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

poet laureate?
i've investigated this and Colorado does not list him amoung their official poet laurrettes. is this unsorced or perhaps honorary? http://www.coloradohumanities.org/documents/Poet_Laureate_Guidelines.pdf

http://www.loc.gov/rr/main/poets/colorado.html

Dever's claimed nomination does fall during a gap.

Or perhaps controversy lead to his removal?

any ideas on this?

Childhoodtrauma (talk) 19:52, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Chinese Premier at concert in US buys tapes of Denver's music
I have deleted the following passage because, as is well known, the premier of China Zhou Enlai (who died in January 1976) never visited the United States:


 * In 1972, at a Washington, D.C. concert, Nixon and then-Premier of the People's Republic of China Zhou Enlai were members of the audience. After the concert, which included Denver's infamous parodies "The Ballad of Richard Nixon" and "The Ballad of Spiro Agnew", the Premier purchased 500 cassette tapes of the country folk ballad "Take Me Home, Country Roads".

I can however, as a resident of China in the early 1980s, vouch for Denver's popularity then. But the above story is simply an urban legend.Villa Giulia (talk) 16:06, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Bold textSPACE EXPLORATION

John Denver was a suporter of space exploration in the 1980s he approached NASA about flying in space, this was to becoume the civilian in space program which would see ordinary people in space there would have been a musisian , artist journilist etc , John Denver was going to be the first , but President Raegan decided that a school teacher should fly first , Chirista McAuliffe  after the challenger disaster John  wrote a song as a tribute "Flying for Me" which he sung on the Val Doonican show on the BBC in 1987? . he started discussions with the Soviet Union for a flight to the Mir space station but he had to pull out due to the cost of the flight, in 1990 a Japanese Television Reporter became the first civilian in space and reported live from the Mir space station. —Preceding unsigned comment added by MM6RAM (talk • contribs) 10:58, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

South Park reference
I wouldn't know where to put it, but I saw a 2000 episode of South Park where a theme park ride called "The John Denver Experience" where riders were put in a mock-up plane that was slammed against mountains and then dipped upside down in water. Of course, considering the nature of the show, this was a satirical joke. --n00b —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.60.54.195 (talk) 06:59, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * So it belongs if anywhere in the South Park article, not here. Sensei48 (talk) 08:56, 30 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Ok, sorry, thanks. Just wondering, it would seem to make sense here, as they referenced him, I don't know.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.60.54.195 (talk) 21:49, 30 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Pardon my apparent bluntness; I just fired off a reply without sufficient attention to it. FWIW, I'm a big SP fan, and I thought that that episode was funny, if typically (and intentionally) tasteless. But an allusion in a SP episode isn't part of JD's "notability" and is a matter of trivia, which WP discourages. On the other hand, it might well fit in an episode list or something like that in the article on SP. Sensei48 (talk) 23:22, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Voice type
Does anybody know what Denver's voice type was? I'm reasonably confident that he was a tenor of some sort, but I can't find a source to confirm or deny this. Cosmic Latte (talk) 23:25, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

He was a tenor. In the song For You he goes up to a G5, although on his Christmas album Christmas Like a Lullaby he goes down to a G3 (although he is stretching it). He has gone up above the G5 a few times without falsetto. He rarely uses falsetto unless he is just vocalizing. The song If Ever (from Dreamland Express) is an exception. I'm not sure that there is a source per se.WikiJerod (talk) 19:56, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Henry Senior's rank
Added Henry's rank as it was between 1976-78. I nearly bumped into John Jr. at the Red Zinger Bike Classic. He was talking with Mo, founder of Celestial Seasonings and sponsor of the classic. (Don't recall his last name). This was by the 9th St park, Boulder, CO. Don't remember why but I looked him up in the Denver phone directory. His name was there, but a military rank followed the name. I've since remembered John's dad was a Lieutenant Colonel. Maybe someone with access to the Denver directory from that period can confirm this. How John acquired his last name (from the name of the city), and why ("Denver" being easier to spell -- and more marketable), seemed clear. --Kernel.package (talk) 06:24, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

Grammar
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(capitalization) DocOfSoc (talk) 23:12, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Unsourced claims
I've recently become aware of the existence of many unsourced claims in this article, some of which are followed by references that do not support the material cited. In at least two instances, User:Jtpaladin was responsible for inserting this material. Looking at these edits, it may be serious enough to warrant going through all of the contributions by this user on Wikipedia. Viriditas (talk) 09:49, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
 * TY for the heads up.DocOfSoc (talk) 12:32, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Problem with Rio Grande Park link
The link for Rio Grande Park, referenced as the location of the memorial for John Denver near Aspen, connects to an article for a Rio Grande Park in El Paso, TX. Obviously it's the wrong park, but there should be an article on the correct park, and probably a disambiguation page. I couldn't find any "official" pages for the park, but there's this link from the Aspen Portrait site, and this link from the Aspen Parks and Recreation site as starting points. Cynsayshi (talk) 04:34, 17 December 2010 (UTC)Cynthia
 * Thank you for pointing this out. I have ref'd to the first link which is REALLY nice. Good on ya! DocOfSoc (talk) 06:02, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
 * We also need to expand that reference. The Sanctuary is not given proper justice. http://www.aspenportrait.com/john_denver_sanctuary/denver1-0706.html DocOfSoc (talk) 06:10, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Photo
If a fair use image is to be included, why not put one in where he's in his prime instead of one from 1990? And if we want a free image, just take a still frame from the public domain video. FunkMonk (talk) 01:58, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Go for it! ;-) 02:19, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Heh, which part? What would be preferable, a screen grab from the video, or another fair use pic? FunkMonk (talk) 02:43, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Probably another fair use pic. Do the best you can ;-) DocOfSoc (talk) 05:53, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I replaced the old one, new one is more recognizable. FunkMonk (talk) 18:04, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

Wouldn't it be a good idea to have multiple pictures of him from different eras? He had different hairstyles and glasses during the years? (such as a mullet in 1989) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.86.226.57 (talk) 19:51, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Dead external links to Allmusic website – January 2011
Since Allmusic have changed the syntax of their URLs, 1 link(s) used in the article do not work anymore and can't be migrated automatically. Please use the search option on http://www.allmusic.com to find the new location of the linked Allmusic article(s) and fix the link(s) accordingly, prefereably by using the Allmusic template. If a new location cannot be found, the link(s) should be removed. This applies to the following external links: --CactusBot (talk) 10:55, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
 * http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=B99q8b5t4tsqa

Record Sales
John Denver's American album count is over 52 million - RCA added 19 million to his catalog in 2003. An audit revealed they PAID him royalties for those sales - but never added them to his catalog. He/his estate received just over $400,000,000 from sales of his recordings by RCA from 1973 to 2003. That does not include his recordings from his Windstar label and other labels. John Denver's world wide count is 126,000,000 as of December 2008. He is the fourth highest selling American singer in American recording history - trailing Elvis (1,525,000,000), Michael Jackson (750,000,000) and Frank Sinatra (128,000,000). And TODAY - Elvis sells about 2,500,000 per year, Jackson about 1,500,000 per year, Denver about 1,500,000 per year and Sinatra still sells about 250,000 per year!!! Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_albums_has_John_Denver_sold_worldwide#ixzz1AmHSJRrR —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.247.253.42 (talk) 09:00, 12 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Hi 199- The problems with adding this to the article are a) it is a direct copy from the Answers.com website; b) the style, esp. the last sentence, is not encyclopedia language; b) Answers.com is questionable as WP:RS. Some other source for confirmation of those stats, like the NARAS, would be good. Sensei48 (talk) 16:41, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Jesse Belle
The article lists Jesse as his son but she is his daughter.

Mtnquest4 (talk) 03:15, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I corrected this as a source was found. Please feel free to correct an article if you find an error. It is good idea to note a reliable source when making any corrections. Msw1002 (talk) 04:27, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

Lede sentence should be revised
The lede sentence calls Denver a composer and singer, when in all other cases the term for that is simply—-and notably in Denver’s case—singer-songwriter. As with Bob Dylan, Denver wrote highly significant songs that were recorded by numerous artists, as well as himself. One other point: he was not notable as a pilot, for example, in the sense of Yeager or Lindberg. Whatever his skills may have been, this was essentially a passion or interest that had no connection to his fame. Its only notability is in relation to his death.

Regarding my interest here. I am currently editing the List of singer-songwriters and will be moving Denver from the non-traditional to traditional list, where he rightfully belongs. I have vetted hundreds of artists regarding their categorization as singer-songwriters. If ever there was a S/S, he’s one. That’s my opinion, but it’s also verified by his AllMusic article, among other sources. As I see it, Denver’s characterization as "an American popular music composer" comes off as somewhat pejorative, whereas I see his accomplishments as on a plane with those of similarly popular artists, such as Louis Armstrong and Hank Williams. On several counts, then, the lede sentence fails to do the subject justice. Allreet (talk) 05:51, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

An inappropirate comment
Although I know what talk pages should be used for, I must say I have a newly found respect for John Denver after hearing his address to Congress! --Leahtwosaints (talk) 22:51, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

Mount John Denver
An attempt to name a Colorado mountain "Mount John Denver" is stirring considerable controversy in Colorado (as does any geographic name change). However the referenced item was deleted here for reasons I don't understand. The edit summary was in a "I don't like it" rather than quibbling with the facts. Wikipedia should not be censored.Americasroof (talk) 16:30, 9 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Well, it was hardly "I don't like it." I deleted it because it is - as I noted in the summary - the exact opposite of the "recognition" section in which you placed it. My edit summary also suggested that it might fit at some other point in the article precisely because it is sourced. However - the substance of your edit is that the folks in the area are saying "We don't want to recognize JD in this way." This item belongs in controversies or in a new section. Sensei48 (talk) 15:14, 10 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Here's the exact edit summary: "rmv irrelevant: this is not "recognition" - it is exactly the opposite. Maybe belongs elsewhere in the article, but clearly not here." Nothing there that says "I don't like i." or represents "censorship." It says "Let's maintain some internal logic to this article.": Sensei48 (talk) 15:18, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

John Denver the host
From the article: "[...] as John Denver, was an American singer/songwriter, activist, and humanitarian." I know very little about him, but maybe it should also say he was a (TV) host. Someone who knows more can about Denver can probably tell whether I may have a point. (Look for "host" in the article.) --82.171.70.54 (talk) 00:30, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

Photo too insert; person of interest who heard John Denver's plane
On Ocean View Blvd., in Pacific Grove, California 93950 , it is assumed that John Denver crashed beyond the "marker". The "said" marker is driftwood with his name engraved on it, "John Denver". There is a group on Flickr dedicated too him, that may have some details.

Local resident, who apparently did not come forward at the time of his death, not realizing his information might be helpful. It is difficult too speculate at this late date how many people actualy heard the crash. Mr. Jim Willoughby has reflected several times, that he heard the crash and ran down the street, which was several blocks from the shoreline.

He is now in his 80's, and very active in local community affairs.

Looking through archives, and seeing John Denver's "Memorial Driftwood Log" ... it is still, but not cared for..I am unable.. The City posts benches for special members of the community, or private parties can buy a bench for their loved ones that died. Even if they did not die in Pacific Grove. If seems, that something should be there for John Denver. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pointlobosgirl (talk • contribs) 09:31, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

"Windsong" lyric
Denver's "Windsong" has the following lyric: Can someone site his religion for me, please? Benjamin908 (talk) 17:31, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
 * "The wind is THE GODDESS who first learned to fly."
 * as a person associated with the Human potential movement, i dont think he would have had a precise religious affiliation. still, it is an interesting question, even if asked somewhat in jest. Anyone have info on this?Mercurywoodrose (talk) 01:15, 7 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I googled [John Denver religion] and a number of entries came up, including this one: ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 01:23, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

A concert DVD
I have one here which is not listed anywhere and perhaps should be, eh? Rocky Mountain High: Live in Japan, filmed in 1981.

It is interesting to note that the "crown prince and princess of Japan" are in attendance. Denver says so.

Varlaam (talk) 07:55, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

How many Colorado' residences'? How many 'homes'? What's the difference?
'Following the success of "Rocky Mountain High," Denver purchased a residence in Colorado and owned one home in Colorado continuously until his death.[26]'

It's not clear what this sentence is intended to convey, regarding Colorado / residence(s)? Also, the reference cited adds no clarity, other than confirming his death. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.176.214.202 (talk) 19:32, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

Moody Blues
Denver played his first ever UK gig at Wembley supporting the The Moody Blues in 1972. The fact that BBC TV producer Stanley Dorfman was in the audience meant that Denver got his first UK TV show. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:35, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

Marital Breakdown
The autobiography describes cutting the bed in half with a "power saw", but this article says "chain saw". Is there a reference to confirm that it was a chain saw? Also, the autobiography describes a different reason for the act. Is there an independent source to substantiate the claim that the cause was the property settlement ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by SMWatt (talk • contribs) 04:04, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

senate picture
the picture of Denver before the Senate is a picture of Al gore  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:C47A:789:61E1:C2BD:C492:459 (talk) 21:10, 7 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Thank you,  Mlpearc  ( open channel ) 21:25, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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Splitting the headers up?
Compared to other articles, I find this one to have a lot of subheaders.. particularly under "Biography". What does everybody think about splitting them up, like Vince Neil or Frank Zappa. I feel like his personal life and death should especially be separated. -- Jennica ✿ Talk 03:13, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

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Death section - overlong?
Reading this article for the first time, it strikes me that the death section, which has several meaty paragraphs, is simply too long. Whilst I appreciate that there is a lot of information in it, could it not be trimmed down somewhat? Boscaswell  talk  10:41, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

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Possible citation solution
Denver's website features a list of awards Denver has received. Is this considered a reliable source? If so, it could be used to resolve the two citation needed tags in the 'Other recognition' section (specifically regarding the Carl Sandburg's People's Poet Award, 1982 and Albert Schweitzer Music Award, 1993). Only adding it here instead of the main page because I am unsure of whether or not it is considered reliable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by BishopsHouseofHorrors (talk • contribs) 01:51, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

Fatal flying accident
In 1996, the FAA decided that Denver could no longer fly a plane...
 * Does this mean he was actually flying while disqualified? Valetude (talk) 00:19, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

Longest time to follow up a number one
In the UK, there is a gap of 17 years, 117 days between the chart entries for John's #1 Annie's Song and his duet with Placido Domingo, Perhaps Love. This is the longest time any artist has taken to follow up a number one hit. It beats the 16 years, 82 days between The Tams' Hey Girl Don't Bother Me and There Ain't Nothing Like Shagging.

Although I own a plethora of chart books, nowhere can I find a reference for this dubious honour. Plenty of sources for gaps between number ones, or longest waits for number ones, but none for this. Has anyone spotted a reference anywhere? Or can anyone disprove it? 86.2.125.17 (talk) 13:41, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

Asperger's
Does anyone have any source for the claim that Denver was diagnosed Asperger's? I've seen it on like 20 sites, some of them even noting that he, unlike those rumored/likely to have it, was formally diagnosed. Futurefirst (talk) 18:21, 4 July 2022 (UTC)

Performances with other Musical Greats
I believe John Denver was a frequent special guest performer on the Glen Campbell Goodtime Hour/Music Show. For many of us, that was our first introduction to him. 2600:8803:3E0F:6A00:DC00:DDFC:7E2A:994D (talk) 18:20, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

Family
Any relation to James Denver? Thatsme314 (talk) 04:29, 21 January 2024 (UTC)


 * No - John Denver's birth name was Henry John Deutschendorf Jr. - Claidheamhmor (talk) 06:26, 23 January 2024 (UTC)