Talk:John Eliot Gardiner

Untitled
The German article on this man is far more detailed than the English. And he is English. Any translators would be welcome.

Gardiner studied history, not music, at Cambridge. See the linked interview. I'm making the correction. 69.12.144.158 21:05, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Gardiner's hardly an uncontroversial character - doesn't something about that need to be included also? Attitudes towards performance, arguments with colleagues and critics (Lebrecht), and so forth

I did a major rewrite of the article. Most notably:
 * Added infobox
 * Added various honours and awards with reference
 * Added various missing links in the career and added much references
 * Rewrote the career so it is not longer point based.

There are still several weaknesses:
 * There is little about the musical background of John Eliot Gardiner
 * There is little about the personal live.
 * The text may be improved by a native English speaker.

86.95.71.60 18:01, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Cleanup
I have added the cleanup tag, since this article is in serious need of improvement. Grammar, style, punctuation, etc., all need much attention. I will do what I can when I can, but I encourage others to help too! --Wspencer11 (talk to me...) 21:39, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

B-class?
How come this article is B-class, yet it is a biographical article that needs more citations? George8211 conversations 08:34, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

Postnominal letters
I have removed the postnominal letters FKC from the first sentence, on the basis that is it not conventional to indicate honorary degrees in this way (see List of post-nominal letters (United Kingdom). I have left this award in the Honours and awards section. Verbcatcher (talk) 20:09, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

Orchestras
The article says "In 1968 he founded the Monteverdi Orchestra. Upon changing from modern instruments to period instruments in 1977, the orchestra changed its name to the English Baroque Soloists." Is this true, or was one orchestra wound up and a new one founded with specialist period instrument players? There is no reference to the Monteverdi Orchestra in the English Baroque Soloists article. Can someone please check this, and if necessary update both articles and set up a new page or a redirect for Monteverdi Orchestra. Verbcatcher (talk) 20:23, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Resolved. The text was correct, I have added citations. Verbcatcher (talk) 22:47, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

Rudeness
We talk about the rudeness of Toscanini, Kathleen Battle and others. Why not Gardiner? etc. --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  21:48, 4 August 2015 (UTC)

Forename?
If one met the great man would he invite one to call him John or John-Eliot (putting aside his spoken-of rudeness)? I suppose the latter is no odder than John-Paul or Jean-Michel. If the invitation to be familiar was not forthcoming would one call him Sir John or Sir J-E. Sebmelmoth (talk) 13:23, 9 October 2016 (UTC)

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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20041223121902/http://www.goldbergweb.com:80/en/magazine/interviews/2002/09/338_2.php to http://www.goldbergweb.com/en/magazine/interviews/2002/09/338_2.php

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 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.musicomh.com/classical/features/john-eliot-gardiner_0508.htm
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Link to Bach
It makes no sense to revert the link to Bach. Links are in place to help users navigate the encyclopedia, to claim that readers can do this through the Magnificat link which I added at the same time is a new take on how wikipedia works, one I am not in agreement with. Bach is a highly relevant part of Gardiner's life and therefore definitely we should be linking to the main article on him. Links aren't a bad thing. ♫ RichardWeiss talk contribs 18:12, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Agree, there is no WP:SEAOFBLUE problem as there is a gap between the two. It is more convenient to have the link directly there. But having it as "Bach" instead of Bach's full name is better. Galobtter (talk) 18:28, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
 * We don't need both links. I have changed this to Johann Sebastian Bach's Magnificat, so that it is clear where the links goes and that we are not linking to Magnificat. Verbcatcher (talk) 22:37, 16 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Would you write "Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart's Requiem"? "Mozart's Requiem" is unique enough. There are countless articles rendering it Mozart's Requiem, without people believing it's Requiem. - Perhaps raise the question at project Classical music if you want to deviate from that standard. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:02, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
 * There is also Magnificat (C. P. E. Bach), but 'J. S. Bach' would be preferable. I would put Mozart's Requiem, although this is only a trivial example of WP:EASTEREGG. Verbcatcher (talk) 23:14, 16 November 2017 (UTC)


 * There is Magnificat (C. P. E. Bach) (I wrote the article), but isn't the default for Bach without initials J. S.? - How about mentioning Bach Cantata Pilgrimage in the lead, as Gardiner's most unusual production? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:28, 16 November 2017 (UTC)


 * I won't object to Bach's Magnificat. However, I find this use of possessives grating and over-informal:


 * [...] touring the world giving performances of Handel's oratorio Israel in Egypt and Johann Sebastian Bach's Magnificat among other works.


 * Is it just me? I suggest:


 * [...] touring the world giving performances of Israel in Egypt (Handel) and Magnificat (Bach), among other works.
 * We could mention his Bach Cantata Pilgrimage in the lead, but this was only one year in a long career. Verbcatcher (talk) 01:47, 17 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Pilgrimage: one very specific year, and unique in the world, and resulting in all these recordings. Possessive: not elegant, but the composer in brackets works even less for me, and saying "by so-and-so" after the title each time is awkward for a long sequence. I do that for people such as Strauss where a possessive construction looks strange. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:06, 17 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Go ahead with the pilgrimage. I have removed 'Johann Sebastian' from the sentence and have linked Israel in Egypt. I did not enclose Handel in this link, which may seem inconsistent but I don't like to linked text to be too long. Verbcatcher (talk) 19:22, 17 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Some day when I have more time ;) - Thank you! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:37, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

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Correction to the "Honours and awards" section
Hello, I have modified a reference to an Italian University in the "Honours and awards" section (changed "University of Pavia" with "University of Mantova"). It appears the old name was wrongly copied from the external website quoted; anyway Monteverdi's birthpace was Mantova, not Pavia. Regards Vbrm (talk) 09:38, 13 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Birth place of Monteverdi is Cremona and the source says honorary doctorate University of Cremona. So I corrected this. Grimes2 (talk) 09:58, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

University subjects
It is probably misleading to say that Gardiner "studied history, Arabic, and medieval Spanish at King's College, Cambridge". We say that he graduated "with a master's degree in history". A Cambridge MA does not involve postgraduate study (see Master of Arts (Oxford, Cambridge, and Dublin)). It seems that his only formal university study was his undergraduate degree course in history, and that Arabic and medieval Spanish were elective components of this degree course. An offline source is cited for this. We should either delete Arabic and medieval Spanish or clarify the context. Verbcatcher (talk) 10:01, 31 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Tend to agree. The offline source seems to be this one, but no preview is available. There is another source here, by Gardiner himself, however, which clarifies the situation. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:03, 31 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you for that reference. I have a copy of the book: perhaps I should read it! In that passage Gardiner wrote that in 1964 he was in his third year at Cambridge, and that in 1967-8 he was a student in Paris and Fontainebleau. I think this refers to his studies with Nadia Boulanger who was the head of the Conservatoire américain de Fontainebleau.
 * When Gardiner writes 'Ostensibly I was there to read Classical Arabic and medieval Spanish' I interpret him as referring to his year off from his History tripos. Perhaps his tutor had assigned these tasks for his year off. This supports my supposition that these were subsidiary studies to his history degree. Verbcatcher (talk) 07:33, 1 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Because Gardiner uses the word 'Ostensibly' we should remove these topics. He may have been exaggerating for literary effect, but he is saying that he didn't really read Classical Arabic and medieval Spanish in 1964. He might have studied these subjects later, but Gardiner's book casts sufficient doubt to make the claim unsafe. Verbcatcher (talk) 15:36, 1 February 2021 (UTC)